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James Adamson Special user Deatsville - Holtville - Slapout, AL 945 Posts |
Here is (Poppa) Bob Sanders Silk Chart:
Silks are measured by the straight hemmed edges and never diagonally. For diamond cut silks Product ----- Appears --- Takes the Size --------- to be ------ Space of 9" ------------ 12" -------- 6" 12" ---------- 18" -------- 9" 18" ---------- 24" -------- 12" 24" ---------- 36" -------- 18" For Square Silks Silk Size---Area------Relative Size Inches-----Sq. Ft-------12â€-----18â€-----24â€-----36†6â€----------0.25--------4.000---9.000---16.000--36.000 9â€----------0.5625-----1.1778--4.000---7.111---16.000 12â€---------1-----------1.000---2.250---4.000---9.000 18â€---------2.25-------0.444---1.000---1.778---4.000 24â€---------4-----------0.250---0.563---1.000---2.250 36â€---------9-----------0.111---0.250---0.444---1.000 Streamer Size------------------------------Area Inches----------Feet------------Square Ft. 1â€-------------- 3’--------------0.25 4â€-------------- 3’--------------1 4â€--------------30’-------------10 8â€--------------30’-------------20 12â€-------------12’-------------12 12â€-------------24’-------------24 36"------------- 6'--------------18 36"------------- 9'--------------27 Converting Square silks to Streamers: Width of ---- Sq. Silk ---- Sq. Silk ---- Sq. Silk Streamer -- 36" Wide -- 24" Wide -- 18" Wide Wanted 12 inch ----- 9 feet ----- 4 feet ------ 2.25 feet 8 inch ----- 13.5 feet --- 6 feet ------ 3.375 feet 6 inch ----- 18 feet ----- 8 feet ------ 4.5 feet 4 inch ----- 27 feet ----- 12 feet ----- 6.75 feet Use the largest silks you can because hems matter. Then just add them together to find how large a streamer of that momme will fit. If it would hold two 36", one 24" and one 18" square silks, go to the width of the streamer and just add. If we want to use 12" streamers, we add 9'+9'+4'+2.25'= 24.25' of streamer. It won't hold a 30' one, but it will hold a 24' streamer 12" wide. If we drop to a streamer 8" wide it will hold a 36' one. Allow yourself any extra room that you can for the shape differences. This little trick may help you to make a better decision before you buy something too large for the compartment. Remember that the opening that you pull the streamer through needs to be at least nearly half as wide as the streamer. If you end up with a different momme silk, re-measure! Bob Sanders"
Be remembered for performing what looks like MAGIC, not skill.
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fccfp Special user NJ 562 Posts |
Thanks James
A.K.A. Jay The Magician
www.jaythemagician.com |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
James,
You're a one-man army. Thanks! Bruce, Thank you for the complement. Thanks also for putting off the burial. Enjoy your silk magic. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
Thanks to all for posting the chart. This would have come in handy for me recently as I had to decide what size streamer to buy. Problem is, I didn't know about Bob's Chart. I calculated the square footage to make sure before I bought it, and it works perfect. Silks and streamers are expensive. It pays to know what you need before you buy.
And Bob, thanks for creating the Chart. We don't want to bury you yet. Regan
Mister Mystery
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silking Loyal user 213 Posts |
Thanks Bob, this is great. I will print it out and place it in my Rices books.
Silking |
chmara Inner circle Tucson, AZ 1911 Posts |
Thanks for that and even though I cannot do it, may I be as bold as to suggeset someone do (add) a momme part of the chart. If this too, affects compression, folding and lasting qualities of opacity. This would be a great sticky.
Gregg (C. H. Mara) Chmara
Commercial Operations, LLC Tucson, AZ C. H. Mara Illusion & Psychic Entertainments |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Gregg,
Momme by any other name is still dead weight! Momme has more to do with weight than anything else. Literally it is the weight in pounds of 100 yards of silk cloth 45 inches wide. (It is not a measure of quality but just content. Think of the cotton in a pair socks versus a tee shirt. It tells you nothing about the quality of either weave.) However, a rule of thumb you can use is to make a ratio for space. Thus, if we were replacing our Rice priceless collectable 6 momme with a 5 momme, the calculation would be 5/6 = .83. So we would gain 17% more load space. Going the other way, if we replaced a 5 momme silk load with 8 momme silks 8/5 = 1.60. It would take 60% more space than before. (The formula is New Momme/ Old Momme.) Except for art silks, going to a higher momme usually means just lost space and more money. (Although, the difference in cost is only about $.20/square foot.) Compression problems increase as momme increases. Hem bulk on the good hems also increases as the momme increases. And that can't help your show. Someday I hope we find a way so that silk isn't hemmed at all. It may take magic! We tried serging in the 70s and it was especially a disaster when silks were tied or used to support a load. Enjoy! Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
chmara Inner circle Tucson, AZ 1911 Posts |
Bob- thanks for your clarification on momme.
While I know the "stuffing" ratio is important to some -- I find that traveling with the heavier pieces gives them more chance of survival in many performances. Durability is the key for me.
Gregg (C. H. Mara) Chmara
Commercial Operations, LLC Tucson, AZ C. H. Mara Illusion & Psychic Entertainments |
Autumn Morning Star Grammar Hostess Today, I corrected grammar in 1378 Posts |
Hey Bob,
Have you tried Fray Check for hemming? You get it in the fabric stores. It is similar to thin clear fingernail polish. I use this on all my cut diagonals. Works great and softens with use. It is a little bit stiff in the beginning. Autumn
Wonder is very necessary in life. When we're little kids, we're filled with wonder for the world - it's fascinating and miraculous. A lot of people lose that. They become cynical and jaded, especially in modern day society. Magic renews that wonder.
Doug Henning |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Autumn,
I have used Fray Check. And it does work. I would even recommend it where a snap, ring, or loop is sewn to a fine silk and there is a threat of the punctures separating the silk weave undesirably (runner). I raised two kids alone and don't sew. Fray Check is an old friend! Bob |
Autumn Morning Star Grammar Hostess Today, I corrected grammar in 1378 Posts |
Bob,
Raising two kids alone is like a mini-course in magic! I admire your Chutzpah! I bet "Stitch Witchery" (it hems clothes by fusing with an iron) and stick-on Velcro are also your good buddies! I agree with you completely about using the Fray Check before you stitch silk or put on a snap, etc. A suggestion: If anyone uses "Fray Check", apply it to the silk BEFORE you cut it into a diagonal. Let it dry and then cut away! It's much easier this way and your silk will not ravel!
Wonder is very necessary in life. When we're little kids, we're filled with wonder for the world - it's fascinating and miraculous. A lot of people lose that. They become cynical and jaded, especially in modern day society. Magic renews that wonder.
Doug Henning |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Autumn,
You'll be proud. This week I restocked my little bottle of Dritz Fray Check. It works on some cotton rope ends too! (Getting wet won't hurt it.) Bob Sanders Magic by Sander |
magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts |
We just had Bob as a lecturer in Leesburg, Fl., What a resource of knowledge on silks. I had him over to the house that night and the education continued. I dug out some older silk effects I had produced in the 80's, and solved a big "volume" problem I had with an effect called "Flagtastick".
I had been limited to using 3 9" acetate silks which at times bogged down the cane. I replaced them with three diamond cut pure silks which allowed me to speed up the cane production yet looked the same to the audience. The biggest problem solved was that there was a flag that has to be held in the hand, and it was a rayon flag. Very awkward, but by replacing it with a pure silk flag, the "load" became much more manageable and so muchso, that instead of an 18" flag, I could use a 24" flag which was still less volume than I had before. This was a radical change for the effect, which meant I could re-release this item using 100% pure silks and 50% easier handling, and twice as fast of an effect. Flagtastick received four stars in Genii years ago, the pure silk version is now available. (just recently ordered by Jeff McBride). http://magicians.podbean.com/blendo-tie/flagtastick/ Bravo, Bob. Click here to view attached image.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Thanks Ian!
I really enjoyed getting to spend time with you and watch how naturally you create magic. It's a gift! People who don't get to see your lectures and DVDs have missed a lot. Scheme! It makes magic. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander PS --- When you are up this way lecturing in April, I hope you spend some time here at the ranch. I look forward to thinking outside the box about magic with you. It's a treat. (Besides, I saw everything else, but no live unicorns at your place. We have them! Lucy uses them in her shows. You do win the prize for big magic birds.) |
fyi2 Loyal user 291 Posts |
Does anyone know where I can buy 9" diamonds?
I brought some 12" Diamonds, but they fill my TT so it wobbles, I am assuming a 9" DIamond may well solve my problem. Thoughts? Tony |
Kevinr Inner circle 1854 Posts |
"fyi2" I bought mine off Penguin Magic most sites sell them.
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bowers Inner circle Oakboro N.C. 7024 Posts |
There's a lot of valuable knowledge in this thread. Thanks to all for their contributions.
todd |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
I am frequently asked about the diagonal measurements of diamond cut silks.
Here they are: This should help. Measured diagonally 24" Diamond Cut Silk is about 51" tip to tip but looks like a 36" square 18" Diamond Cut Silk is about 38" tip to tip but looks like a 24" square 12" Diamond Cut Silk is about 26" tip to tip but looks like an 18" square 9" Diamond Cut Silk is about 18" tip to tip but looks like a 12" square Silks are measured by their sewn hemmed edges, not diagonally. (All four sides should measure the same.) |
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