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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
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On 2006-05-03 06:38, drwilson wrote: I'm curious as to why one needs to affiliate with the IBM? what are the actual benefits for a club to be a recognised IBM Ring? Our local club affilliated itself a few years ago and so far I've seen no benefit from doing so. So what do you guys see as being the benefits to joining a national orgainisation?
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Marvello Inner circle It's amazing how little I can say in 1612 Posts |
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On 2006-05-05 01:32, Payne wrote: Well, the magazine is a biggie, and then there is the ability to purchase group health/life insurance as well as group liability insurance program. Also, ring 2100 (online ring) is great, and only open to IBM members.
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
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On 2006-05-07 08:13, Marvello wrote: These are all personal reasons for joining the IBM. What are the benefits for the club in general? Our club was doing just fine without being affiliated with the IBM and the only reason they chose to affiliate was the then president talked everyone into doing it. He wanted to affiliate simply because (believe it or not) he wanted to be able to put President IBM Ring whatever on his business cards. I think requiring people to join a national orgainization just to hang out with their local magic buddies is rather silly
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Marvello Inner circle It's amazing how little I can say in 1612 Posts |
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On 2006-05-07 13:53, Payne wrote: Well, now you can also put "member IBM Ring #XXXX" on your cards, too Actually, I guess I would have to be in your shoes to fully understand exactly where you are coming from, and I am sure your feelings are valid, but personally I don't see the problem - there is room in the world, and in any town, for more than one magic club - if you don't like the IBM, or the president of your local ring, then politely start your own club. If he is truly doing it for ego, your buddies may feel the same way as you do. Another thing to keep in mind- when people tour the country lecturing at magic clubs, they may be more likely to go to an IBM ring to lecture as opposed to your personal magic club.
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
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abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
I thought IBM was about computer magic.???>>>...
OK jokes aside. Why join an international (not national) organization to hang out with your magic buddies? Because an international organization has some form of structure that a small local club doesn't have. Surely it can not be as streamlined as a small local club but you are not limited to belonging to only one. I am a very busy person and I don't have time to arrange meetings and the rest so for me to have an international organization do it on my behalf and I just have to attend is great. Secondly the EGO thing is everywhere. When I was still in school I was prevented from competing in a magic competition because of some silly club law that the different clubs had and one just had to be better than the other. With IBM the ego thing is still there but it does not get in the way of raw and pure magic competition and striving to be the best without the politics obstructing it. In small clubs the politics cause just to many problems. |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
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On 2006-05-08 13:23, abc wrote: The IBM arranges your local meetings? That must be sweet. We still have to secure our meeting place, arrange a time and date and notify our membership ourselves. How does one get the (Inter)National organization to do all that for you where you're at? when our club decided to go over to the IBM it took them nearly two years to acknowledge that we existed. We've never seen an officer from the Home Office, nor I suspect, ever even heard from one. I would wager that if we had a episode of political turmoil in our club and asked the Head of the IBM, who ever that is, to come to our aid, he'd more than likely tell us to deal with it ourselves. Which really is what we should do anyway. So again what benefits are there for a club to affiliate with the IBM? Basically it is just a glorified magazine subscription which is why about third the membership of our club aren't members of the Brotherhood.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Marvello Inner circle It's amazing how little I can say in 1612 Posts |
The IBM does not arrange the meetings, but when a person is touring they will look up IBM rings - it's a fact. Also- you have obviously never had to perform anywhere that required you to have your own liability insurance. Try looking in to the cost of liability insurance on your own, versus the group plan, and you will quickly see the benefits of joining
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
IBM won't arrange your meeting details for you, but for those who enjoy more "structure" in their activities, IBM has that in spades. Every IBM member is just one person away from contacting IBM Headquarters through their network of Territorial Vice Presidents. Maybe two people if you need to ask your local Ring President to put you in touch with the TVP. Their job is to act as liaison between the local Rings and the (rather hard to reach at times) upper levels of management. The TVP is also who you turn to if you want to form your own Ring. They are equipped with all the materials necessary for all sorts of things.
It's like joining a Church. Some people like the sense of "belonging" to an organization of like minded individuals. Others prefer to keep their beliefs to themselves without having to "conform" to the group mindset. I'm in the second group. If you're not a "club" type of person, this may not be for you. I've been an IBM member for 20 years, 13 of them as President of Ring 2100 and four of them as TVP of Nevada but if you don't count the two national conventions, I've only stepped foot in an IBM meeting about twice, once as a guest speaker, one for an IBM sponsored lecture. I don't mind being the "back stage" help as long as they don't make me sit through the meetings. Why you ask? The local magic club in Las Vegas got along fine without an IBM affiliation for years. Still does. Nobody wanted the hassles of organizing anything formal, so for the most part it was an excuse once a week to drink beer with your buddies and see an occasional lecturer as they passed through town. The benefit of living in Las Vegas is that the performers come here anyway, so realistically we've had more guest lecturers than any IBM Ring. On the other hand, Ring 257 has been reactivated recently with the help of Roger Dreyer of Fantasma Magic, and a few local hobbyists. So now we have two choices. Drink beer, or attend an organized meeting (and then drink beer). My choice? Since I really don't drink, and I'd rather spend time with family than a bunch of guy telling bad jokes, I spend my spare time (when I can find some) right here online. Now I can attend Ring meetings (virtual Ring 2100) without smelling of beer and cigarette smoke. Come to think of it, reading what I just wrote I can't figure out if I'm trying to talk you into, or out of, joining a local Ring. So I guess it really is up to you after all.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
OK I didn't mean meetings I meant lectures. My bad. If you are a small club it is a lot more difficult to get things arranged. But if that is not what you are looking for then just don't join. I said international because how can a national organization from the US operate in other countries without being international?
As for the politics it is everywhere like I said. |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
I really enjoy my local club. It is a great group of guys and if I had to join the IBM to keep going I most likely would, though under duress. I am just naturally leary of national orgainisations which demand dues from it's membership but don't provide any benifits for said funds.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
IBM doesn't charge anything for local Ring membership. The benefits are there for all members regardless of local Ring affiliation.
However, many local rings collect dues. It all depends on their operating costs for room rental, cleaning, lecture expenses, cookies, whatever.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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DerZauberer Elite user Southern California 468 Posts |
I was very fortunate to find a local ring. I live in Germany and I only found 2 in my initial search. As luck would have it, there was one 45 minutes from me. It is slightly inconvenient to make such a drive, but it is refreshing to meet with other magicians.
My fist motivation was to mingle with German Magicians so I can learn the language and practice my magic for critique. As it turns out; I have so much to offer the ring. I have brought a lot of material from the United States that they have never seen before. |
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
You just brought up a good reason for a club to affiliate with IBM. They're easier to find! No more "friend of a friend" and asking magic shops. Being part of a larger organization makes your club more visible to the rest of the world.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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drwilson Inner circle Bar Harbor, ME 2191 Posts |
One of the benefits that I can see from being part of the International organization is that, if you send in regular Ring reports, the readers of TLR can see that you exist and can find you if they are passing through. We expect our first Ring report to appear in the June issue.
When I was a member of another Ring a long time ago, we got photo coverage in The Linking Ring for a stage competition that we held. We had good photos, mailed them in with an article, and they ran it. If you are just a local club with no affiliation, you aren't going to get coverage in a magazine with wide circulation without a great deal more effort. Yours, Paul |
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Steve Hart Veteran user Cocoa, FL 388 Posts |
I have been a member of the I.B.M for over 20 years and I see several benefits for my dues.
Yes the Linking Ring does a great job for a magic magazine but it is designed to go beyond just a magazine. As Paul mentioned the Ring Reports. Every Ring is invited to send a monthly report of all the activity of your Ring, who performs, what tricks, and any other additional events. Also photos. Try getting your photo into any of the other magic magazines. So if you are staying active within your Ring your name should appear in the report if you active by performing or teaching a trick. There are other reasons why I belong to the I.B.M., the group liability insurance coverage. You can't beat the price. If you are working any where as a magician and you are not carrying insurance, you are crazy. Now the new member Websites, what a great benefit. And there is more coming. Steve Hart
www.SteveHartSpeaks.com
www.magic2motivate.com "Motivational Magicians are some of the highest paid magicians, find out why?" |
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Michael Taggert Special user Fredericksburg Virginia 656 Posts |
The thing that I want to stress is that you also have fellowship abilities that your average local club wouldn't have. Steve for instance is the international membership chairman.Guys like steve are also members of the local rings. (Ours has at least one Past international president.) From a prestige standpoint it looks better to be affiliated with a major organization than say The "the sleepy Hollow' magic monthly" It says you have something to offer your membership. That is to achieve national and International recognition. all the fringe benefits aside in the business of show business this is huge.
also along with the libiliy insurance at the group rate (wich is worth the membership alone.) we get the magazine that is chock full of usefull magic every month, special discounts to the convention, the chance to be sponsored into FISM, the chance to compete at a national level. a network of working pro's that are ready willng and able to help the young members along. a structured youth programm. a long term recognition program. etc. etc. etc. can your local club compete with that and that's just a start. Mike taggert VP Ibm ring 50 washington DC |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
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On 2006-06-06 00:42, blutrol wrote: I guess this would come in handy if we ever hand to help Frodo destroy the One Ring. Other than that I appear to get the same amount of Fellowship, if not more, than the guys in the club who belong to the IBM. Quote:
Steve for instance is the international membership chairman.Guys like steve are also members of the local rings. (Ours has at least one Past international president.) From a prestige standpoint it looks better to be affiliated with a major organization than say The "the sleepy Hollow' magic monthly" It says you have something to offer your membership. That is to achieve national and International recognition. all the fringe benefits aside in the business of show business this is huge. C'mon, does anyone really care, other than easily impressed magi, that you belong to an International Orgainisation of Magicians? When I book a gig my membership in a magic club never comes up in the conversation, ever. From a "prestige" point of view I trust I would garner more from the various awards I've won at local and regional magic conventions. At least I had to work for those. But other than them just taking up space on my trophy shelf they too really offer little in upping ones prestige outside the magic world. A mother booking you for her kids birthday really doesn't care that you took the Gold Medal at PCAM all she cares about is how much you're going to charge for little Timmy's birthday party. Quote:
also along with the libiliy insurance at the group rate (wich is worth the membership alone.) we get the magazine that is chock full of usefull magic every month, special discounts to the convention, the chance to be sponsored into FISM, the chance to compete at a national level. a network of working pro's that are ready willng and able to help the young members along. a structured youth programm. a long term recognition program. etc. etc. etc. I agree the liability insurance is a plus, but again that's a personal level benefit. I can see a few benefits to an individual but still none for a club in general. Most members aren't going to ever compete in a magic competition, let alone FISM. Heck most of our club will never even go to a magic convention. Perhaps our club is the exception as it is the only club I've ever associated with, but all these guys really want to do is hang out once a month and watch or perform magic and go to the occasional lecture. Quote:
can your local club compete with that and that's just a start. There has been actually no change in our club, except a drop in attendence, since affiliating ourselves with the IBM. Hence my question as to what the actual benefits there was to a club in general being an recognised RING. I'm sure the IBM is a fine orgainisation and it offers benefits for it's individual members but so far I've yet to see any plus for a club as a whole.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
You've got some serious negative vibe going on.
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
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On 2006-06-12 23:11, silverking wrote: Hey, I'm the type of guy who doesn't see the glass half full nor half empty. Instead I see the glass broken and its contents spilled on the floor. But then I'm not the only guy in our club who feels this way. We've another who's thinking of running for Club President on the platform that we abolish our IBM status and go back to being a local non-affiliated club. Partly because there's a handful of old SAM members from the no defunct local chapter who would like to join our club but don't wish to belong to the IBM.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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