I know this may probably seem a daft question to some people, but I'm an absolute beginner to coin magic and so I need some guidance

I am currently working my way through basic coin techniques and am working on the Classic Palm technique using a 10p piece (I have read the various threads regarding what UK coins to use and the 10p seems to suit me - I think.) Now, I am just wondering how fast you should be able to get a coin from your fingertips and palmed? I know it should be done in a split second but how fast? By the time it takes to say the word "it?" Likewise, are there any online video clips showing the classic palm so I can get an idea about the speed taken? I just won't want to move on to the next technique when I haven't mastered the basic one.

Thanks once again all

The time to do it is when the hand w/ the coin is moving or when you have them focusing elsewhere.
This may be done when dropping the hand to your side, reaching to pick something up, pointing to something, etc.

It's not so much a matter of how fast you do it as it is to do it naturally and/or secretly.

It's in no way a matter of speed, get this out of your mind. Of course it should not take you two minutes, but you can do it relatively 'slow'. You don't palm the coin while specs are burning your hands, so... given some misdirection (just talk to them, ask a question...) you have the time to palm your coin ten times.

Something else: if this frightens you, just make sure the coin is already palmed before you do a move. In this way, you do not have to worry about this. For instance: before a vanish, display the coin in an open classic palm position, before 'dumping' it in the opposite hand. In that way, no moves. I think it is a good way to begin. Then, while watching TV, driving, reading, waiting on the line, in the bus, practice getting into CP, out, keep the coin there. And the last piece of advice: since you're beginning, DO ALL THESE WITH BOTH YOUR HANDS! Don't overlook this.

Good luck!

Phedon

Just a side note.
My personal opinion is that the Classic Palm is NOT a "basic coin technique" and not done very well by a good many people.

I've been working coins for a long time and my CP still isn't what I want it to be.
It seems some hands are better for this than others due to texture, muscle structure, etc.

You are looking first for precision in the move. Find the optimum place in your palm for the palm itself and then WORK BACKWARD out of the palm to your finger tips and then back in. See Roths DVDS or mine: http://www.nexternal.com/bburt/Product8

One of the problems in learning the CP is that the beginner will attempt to put the coin into the palm with out having built up the muscle memory for the correct position first! So again. Get the position down. Walk around for a couple of weeks holding the coin in the palm and building up the small muscles that it takes to maintain the coin in the proper position in the most relaxed and natural manner.

THEN...work on getting it in and out of the palm. I am probably going over this too much, but many beginners jump forward in the process too fast. Before you know it you have practiced the palm in a less than optimum manner. The unlearning process can be a trial. Expect a loooooong learning curce to really nail coin work down if you want to do it well. Much harder than card work because the focus of the technique is more compact and the need to be ambidextrous in coins is almost a must. Stay the course mate and you'll get there,

Speed comes with time. You're a beginner, so you're going to be slow. That's ok!

Don't hold the coin too hard. I've seen quite a few guys hold it so tight as to leave a ring in their palm. Really, a slight tap on the back of the hand should be enough to dislodge it.

BTW - According to Ross, John Ramsay never used a classic palm. Imagine that!

Oops....I meant Roth, not Ross.

I agree with Jaz, the CP is not basic, and it is not often done well. It's also not how well you do the palm but when you do it. I tend to do the palm only when holding onto another coin or object. I never use the CP when a FP will do just as well (actually better). I tend to find my self going in and out of CP for brief moments.

Brad gives some excellent advice here, I know how hard it is because I am a beginner myself.

It's very, very important to take things in order. Acquire the muscle memory first by living with the coin in your hand, and I do mean that. Do everything with coins in your hands, and try to get as much of a range of motion with the hands as you can while holding coins. Try to forget they are there.

After your hands develop such a memory for where to place the coin, it is important to then acquire the talent for getting in and out of it. Watch a good coin video and learn how to move in and out of the palms and transfer between palms. Then practice in front of a mirror moving back and forth between palms, and in and out of palms. Over time these movements become natural and the movements required to do this become smaller and smaller.

The final step is using all that you have learned in the context of a routine, and I can't stress this enough. After you use them in a context of a routine you will know which palms work best and when to go into and out of the palms. It is different for each routine, and for each person. My best advice here is to use a mirror and take your time learning things that suit YOU best.

Being new to coin magic myself I know what you are going through, just keep at it. It takes much more practice and commitment than most card manipulation, but it is very rewarding.

Above all have fun.

Those above are good advice. The steps are important and helpful.

I learnt CP through watching David Roth's Tape over and over again. IMO watching someone (preferrable a good coin magician~) doing it will definitely help.

To my knowledge there are 2 basic ways to get into CP, one is kind of putting it into the position directly in front of the spec. (like David Stone usually do in his tape), the other is doing it while the spec. are not notice of (David Roth usually do that). It's good to learn them both.

As for the timing, a good misdirection is helpful and necessary. Speed shouldn't be a concern at all and the better you can do a CP, the slower you can make it happen. The most important point is to remember where you are looking at and paying attention to =)

Magis 6 said acording to ross Ramsey never used the classic palm..
neither do I .
most magicians that use the CP look like they re squeezeing oranges me included.
vinny

Hi,

I remember the Dai VERNON Book "The magic of MALINI".

Somewhere in the text he wrote that you have to take your time.

The real magic is not in performing fastly, look at MCCLINTOCK, Slydini, ..., everything must to be done slowly,

I think


"most magicians that use the CP look like they re squeezeing oranges"


This is the truth, so we only play the part of a magician and we have to hide everything, so slow motion

I am not going to disagree with any comment re cp...it is very hard to aquire;however, if you develop the muscle along the pinkie side of the hand thru wieght lifting-using a key ring with keys on it-u will develop a cp much faster than trying to do it with just the dynamic tension from holding a coin in cp.

dug

Ohread I hear what youare saying , however everyones had is different...and even if you aquire themuscle you are talking about
the hand stll looks funky

Fine words of advice from you all - many thanks.

PS: I'm typing this message with a 10p piece classic palmed :aok:

In every case in which a magician has said the you don't need to do a classic palm I have found that they in fact could not do a classic palm! Do you absolutly need a classic palm? No, but it sure is handy. In the 20 years I spent teaching sleight-of-hand in 4 different magic schools I found that there were in fact some folks whose hands were so structured that they just could not do it naturally, but that's not the norm. Mostly coin work is just harder to do well. You are working with a limited number of objects, say 4 as opposed to cards 52 and thus the focus of attention of those watching is much more ON you when you work. There is much, MUCH more casual work that can be done with cards while you interact with your audience: Shuffling, etc. Coins demand attention virtually for the entire process of presentation.

That's one of the reasons why although my first coin dvd is well over an hour in length so much time is spent on the classic palm and the transfer from classic to finger palm and back again. Get just that one sequence down and so much of modern coin magic falls into place. It IS possible for most folks to palm a coin naturally and with ease if they attack the learning process with the correct presuppositions of what they need to know and how well they need to know it before they move on. So many 'teaching' tapes have so much material taught so fast on them that one tends (myself included!) to want to jump forward to the newer thing out of boredom.

Don't get bored with your practice. Really. Don't. I'm working on this move that Daniel Garcia teaches on one of his DVDS. I need it to perform the darn trick. At present, doing it about an hour a night as I watch tv, I hope to have it wired in about another month, maybe a little more. What is it? It's the move that flips the deck over 180 degress without really moving your hand....forgot the name of the trick! Don't care, because until I can do the danged move it doesn't really matter if I know the rest at this point. BEst,

Yup, I've been a "card guy" for....well, forever. Within the last couple years, I've been interested in learning coin magic. It's like "culture shock," for lack of a better term.

Brad, nice to see your posting. I have some of your early coin magic videos and you do a very nice job of teaching.

When I first started in magic I worked very hard on the CP. I'm not sorry I did, for I do have a very decent CP and there are time it comes in very handy indeed!

My point is that it's a tool that has it's place but I find myself using it less and less becuase I have learned how natural and disarming a good FP really is and I've gotten much better in all the other elements that go into a coin routine. Simply having a good CP isn't going to be the end all. The point that many are making is valid, even well done, it's not the most natural way to hold the hand.

I use the CP when I need to hold another coin or object with the fingertips. I use it for dropping multiple coins one at at time, and I use it for coin penetration effects. I don't use it when a FP will do just as well. I don't over use it.

"I have learned how natural and disarming a good FP really is "

I think this is the truth.

Look at your DVD, for exemple the coinvention. A magician can be fooled with the FP, because it is so natural. You do not have to think how to FP,

I have read a very good way to get a coin in CP in Bobby BERNARD lesson's in coin magic. He explained that you have to take your time and a good misdirection.

There are a lot of details about the method.

Rich,

I want to address one of your comments, "Simply having a good CP isn't going to be the end all. The point that many are making is valid, even well done, it's not the most natural way to hold the hand."

I would disagree only in that IF you have an excellent CP it IS the most natural way to hold the hand. Most guys/girls I know DON'T have a good CP. They have not worked to get past the beginning stages of learning it and develope the muscles necessary for it to be truly convincing. For them, your comment is accurate.

I mean your hand is empty, you have access to all your fingers and thumb and your hand is not a claw or a flat board and there is no danger of peeking between your fingers. What could be better than that?

To all:

Yes, if the classic palm is weak OR not really necessary to a certain point in a routine, a FP or TP would be just as well or BETTER. No argument there. Use what works most efficiently and effectively for the moment. Don't stop working on the classic palm until you can do it perfectly. Maybe you never will, so don't stop working on it.