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mistifyed Regular user 121 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-16 22:35, Skitch wrote: Hello all. In response of course to Skitch. I was in No way Rude To you. You have blown this way out of porportion. You only explained your true wrist problems a moment ago through a pm to me. I cannot read minds. I offered to sell one to you as you have made me feal for you through your detailed PM to Me. I was going to sell you one at an enormous discount. I simply asked for your number to chat with you respectfully one on one to work something out FOR YOU??... I was not trying to sell you anything. I don't have time to be a salesmen right now and nore do I need the money for that matter. I create effects to improve my personal magic. I have been using the black widow for 2 years before I decided to allow all magicians in on my personal secret. Skitch you have me all wrong kind sir. I am empathetic towards you and your situation and sorry to hear what you have told me. But because you think magic is all about the $$$ signs doesn't mean you can cut me up with your beliefs and what you think magic is and or should be. I am a working professional close-up worker and I have a passion for magic like no other. Magic is and always will be my life. good luck to you skitch and god bless you. Sorry to all. Back to "black widow" talk. Darryl |
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mistifyed Regular user 121 Posts |
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oombob Special user Canada 843 Posts |
Hello Skitch,
It seems to me that you are asking for a free trial of a magic trick. I would imagine that most inventors and sellers of magic tricks would be hesitant to offer their product for a free trial to anyone. I think you will find that most reputable magic dealers are willing to address any questions you may have about the practicality of an effect to suit your needs before you make a purchase decision. I believe Darryl has acted accordingly. The Black Widow is very expensive and in my mind, requires a great deal of practice to be done effectively. If you have free upper body movement and are willing to put in the practice time....then the Black Widow will certainly be within your capabilities. As I have warned everyone who has asked me about this effect....this is not something that will work "out of the box" best wishes, oombob |
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Skitch Veteran user Philadelphia 400 Posts |
As I responded to oombob in the exact same thing said to me in a PM:
I completely understand this isn't an effect that works right out of the box. I understand that the effects are ENDLESS with the Black Widow but will stop someone from performing those endless effects is the one that doesn't work on presentation. But my point of contacting him wasn't to get a "free trial" of a trick as you like to call it, it was simply to see if my disabilities allow me to even begin to work on presentation for the effect. Not only that, I understand the Black Widow is very expansive, even more expansive to those who CAN'T work and money is limited. He didn't even say "Why don't you buy the effect, if you can't use it properly because of your handicap, I will refund you your money" see that would be the nice thing to do. But the sad part is what most people over look today, it all comes back to money.
§kitch
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Skitch Veteran user Philadelphia 400 Posts |
Mr. Darryl sir if my situation was empathetic to you in any way and because you think I'm wrong about saying it's all about the $$$, you would have not send me another PM with the opening line of "I was willing to give you the best price ever." again totally missing what I was trying to explain to you. To then which I replied:
Maybe you didn't read my first PM to you or second but I told you I didn't care so much how much it cost. Yes, $250.00 is a lot but I wasn't worried about that at the time if I could actually PERFORM the effect. You can't go so clear over the internet of how a body does and doesn't work. I also told you I was willing to talk to you over the phone and explain my situation better AND talk to my Mother for any extra proof that I am not trying to scam you here. What you also failed to miss was I never asked for you to give me the Black Widow for free, I was asking to let me see if I can even hook up to myself due to my limitations and disabilities. I would even have been willing to give you my credit card number over the phone before you sent the item out, this way you have some type of collateral in the end. But you didn't even let me get that fair because your more worried about the deal you can make me and what you can get out of it. I certainly understand you make a living off of Magic but I also understand that you aren't hurting either from the success that I read about you and people that know you as well. Instead of worrying about the money and giving me the best price ever, maybe you should count your Blessings of how the Lord has Blessed you with a mind then create such wonderful effects where people can't wait to get their hands on. The sad part is, I'm not even worried about myself. To many Magicians like myself would love to add more to their limited Magic ability but are in the same situation as me and choose not to ask what I asked from you because they already know the answer. I just have enough guts to show you were your wrong and not bow down to you because you are an amazing creator. And don't tell me no dealer would ever do such a thing of what I asked from you because Denny & Lee for one has in the pass when I talked them about my disability. But unfortunately they don't carry newer items anymore and owners of the Black Widow told me to contact you, explain my situation and you would be able to work something out because your a nice guy. Lastly, your so wrapped up in your greed you didn't even say "Why don't you purchase the item and if you really can't do it because of your disability, I'll give you a refund, the only thing you will have to pay for is shipping when you send it back" at least that would have been a start of a helping hand....
§kitch
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Skitch Veteran user Philadelphia 400 Posts |
I posted these responses here not to give a bad name to the effect because that's not what's at hand. I'm hoping some people will understand what I am saying here, especially those who are creator of effects or just starting their creation. Sometimes Magic goes beyond money and selling your product and like I said in the PM to Mr. Darryl someone like himself certainly isn't hurting in his sales and to be Blessed like that and continue to talk about what deals you can give me is a shame. I'm sure I'll get flamed by a lot of people here who will to miss the point but I also know some of the nice and understanding PM's people have given me in trying to help me in any way and I want to thank them personally. In no way is this a negative against the Black Widow because it truly is an amazing piece of Magic and I don't even own it and I can state that.
Thank you....
§kitch
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oombob Special user Canada 843 Posts |
Skitch...I'm sorry if I missed your point. It sounds like you are willing to buy this effect with the caveat of being able to get a refund if it doesn't work out for you. What you are trying to determine then before you purchase this, is whether it will work for you. Most magic dealers have a no refund policy because they are selling "secrets" along with any gimmicks etc.
I am sure this is not news to you or anyone. Believe me...I have bought a lot of magical crap in my life... always with the understanding that a refund is not possible. This is one of the reasons why the Magic Café is so helpful to me. It is a great resource to determine what effects would be suitable for my abilities in advance, so I can make a more informed and confident purchase decision. Best wishes my friend. |
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Skitch Veteran user Philadelphia 400 Posts |
Okay and let me ask you, why was it Magical crap to you? Was it because it didn't fit your style, was it because it didn't do what the ad said it did or was it because of any disabilities you have that prevented you from performing the effect?
And yes, I knew of a couple deals that offered a refund back. I understand to many people buy things just to learn how it's done but the fact of the matter is, I KNOW how it works. I could expose the whole effect right now to anyone that doesn't know but that's not why I am here nor is it why I asked to try it out. Again if the man wasn't successful in his creations and was getting played by people giving stories like myself, I can fully understand where someone wouldn't think twice. But on the first two responses towards me, Mr. Darryl was more worried about telling me what a deal he could give me and so on. Again always starting and ending with $$$ which again you failed to see because you can do most effects.
§kitch
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Peter Loughran V.I.P. Ontario, Canada 2683 Posts |
I was chatting with Skitch through a PM in regards to one of my products. Nice fellow indeed in an unfortunate situation.
However I explained to him why most creators have a no refund policy. Below is part of the transcript of our pm of what I wrote to him, and I'm posting it here because I think this is a fabulous topic of discussion that Skitch has brought up, and I wanted to clarify some other important points from a creators view in regards to a no refund policy that might be missed by some. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I also read your posts on the black widow thread. I must tell you that most creators and magic shops are weary about letting people examine and try out the props prior to commiting to a purchase. I read on the BW thread that you said you knew how it(black widow) worked, but part of the secret which us creators try and protect is also not just the method of the secret, but also the construction, design, and materials used involving the props, this is also a major part of the secret. One may know how a trick is done, but may not know how to go about making one without seeing what the creator has come up with. This is why Daryl and any other creator do not give out refunds, to avoid people learning not only the method but also how to possible construct one themselves and return the original creators prop for a refund, along with learning the patter and routines and such. Im not saying at all these were your intentions, but just trying to help you understand why most creators have that no refund policy, with no exceptions. Don't take any offense to this, as I am not implying these were or are your intentions, just trying to let you know why we creators do what we do. Peter. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brand New: - SNAKE BITE ILLUSION
www.masterofillusions.ca Follow me on Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/peter.loughran.9 Check out my new movie: www.plasterrockmovie.com www.globaluniversal.com Also visit: www.l2fireworks.com |
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Skitch Veteran user Philadelphia 400 Posts |
And as I've said back to Peter, at least when I inquired about his effect, he tried helping me out as best as possible instead of giving me a sales pitch. I am by no means trying to learn the secrete and then send the effect back to get my money back, that isn't Magic to me. In fact, being a Magician I love watching or being shown Magic before being told how it's done because I want to see it from a spectators point of view. But as I've mentioned to Peter, it's very frustrating having the disabilities I have and the limited funds as well. 95% of the time I get my hopes up for a new effect that comes out, buy it and then find out I have all the ideas in the world for this effect but sadly enough my handicap holds me back. I don't want to buy things for them to go in a drawer nor do I want to keep buying and then selling because I want to buy to practice, come up with my own eyes and put smiles on people's face. I really would like to get just 10 effects I can carry with me all the time, I'm not looking to start a business or anything. I have so many questions, so many ideas yet I don't know any Magicians personally where I live and had to stop going to the IBM Magic club because my kidneys shut down. So I'm sorry if the frustration got to me.......
§kitch
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Peter Loughran V.I.P. Ontario, Canada 2683 Posts |
We can only assume or try and understand Skitch's situation, but without actually being in his situation we more than likely will never know exactly what it is like to be in his situation.
I only posted part of my PM because I thought it would be good for others to read that are or are not in Skitch's situation. I just wanted to add to thread with a sometimes over looked point of view, not that Skitch overlooked this just wanted to share, that's all. Like I told Skitch, the best advice I can offer is to keep comeing to places like the Café and ask a lot of questions. With my best regards, Peter.
Brand New: - SNAKE BITE ILLUSION
www.masterofillusions.ca Follow me on Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/peter.loughran.9 Check out my new movie: www.plasterrockmovie.com www.globaluniversal.com Also visit: www.l2fireworks.com |
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Kent Wong Inner circle Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 2458 Posts |
This is getting way out of hand. There is a reason why PM's have a "P in the acronym. They are meant to be PRIVATE communications. When I respond to a PM from a fellow Café member, I TRUST that he/she will respect the nature of that communication. In other words, I trust that the communication will not be made public unless I provide consent to do so.
I also received a PM from skitch and I responded before catching up on this thread. If I had known of the propensity to publicly air private communications, I may not have responded at all. To do so is a betrayal of trust in the person responding to the communication. That's just my two bits on the matter, and I don't expect to change anyone's opinion by it. As for the sale of discounted products directly from the creator, there is a reason for discretion and security. Many creators establish a pre-set pricing with any dealers authorized to sell their product. The dealers are required to maintain the integrity of the pricing as a condition of being able to sell the product. That's why many items are shown on certain sites as a "non-discountable item". In such case, the creator walks a fine line. If he discounts his product, he risks upsetting the dealers who cannot do the same. So, for the creator to offer a discount directly to a particular customer, he must carefully pick the circumstances in which he does so. Then, if a dealer should challenge him on the discount, he has a credible reason for doing so. Kent
"Believing is Seeing"
<BR>______________________ <BR> <BR>www.kentwongmagic.com |
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Skitch Veteran user Philadelphia 400 Posts |
Magicman845, you miss the point. A lot of other people got it but you and Mr. Darryl. It wasn't about the "price" or the discount price at all.
Second, I shared PM's on this topic because a lot of people told me to contact Mr.Darryl and no offense, nothing was said "privately" the only reason why I contacted Mr. Darryl in a PM instead of this thread was in case he wanted to mentioned anything that he didn't want others to hear.
§kitch
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gaafman Loyal user 248 Posts |
I think this all goes way beyond the black widow topic, and if you want to continue discussing it, it might be a good idea to create another topic . The topic itself is quite interesting and got me a bit in a two sided dilemma.
I think for this "case" you have to try and solve it with Darryl personally (through mail/pm/phone). I don't think many others can help you on that, since we offcourse don't know all of your physical limitations and the implications for the black widow. Unless perhaps a magic dealer is willing to send you the product on your conditions. But good luck anyway and I hope you continue to bring lot's of smiles on peoples faces |
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Kent Wong Inner circle Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 2458 Posts |
Skitch,
I realize that it was not your intention to try and get a better price. However, it seems that the creator was simply trying to do something nice by offering you a dramatic discount. He was under no obligation to do so, and I'm sure it's not done very often. If I received an offer like that from the creator of a product, I would feel flattered even if I eventually decided that I didn't want to buy the product. Instead, he gets slammed for just trying to do something decent? As far as the sharing of PM's, everything you say in a PM is said privately. That's why it's called PRIVATE MESSAGING. You said it yourself - you contacted him via PM "in case he wanted to mentioned (sp) anything that he didn't want others to hear". That's the very purpose of the PM system. So, that being the case, why should ANY PM's be made public unless both sides consent to it? Anyways, that's my take on it. I know you don't agree with me and that's O.K. Peace. Kent
"Believing is Seeing"
<BR>______________________ <BR> <BR>www.kentwongmagic.com |
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magicmike30 Special user 744 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-10-17 18:20, magicman845 wrote. L.S.I. could no longer stay silent and believe you me, we tried. Skitch You asked a question re: the Widow if it could be performed in a wheel chair? The answer was yes and a gentleman who is in a wheel chair does this. I wonder why creator's bother to release their magic at all these days. Darryl is a first class act period. I would not send someone something free based on a promise to pay. That is not how business works. Giving someone your address and talking to your Mom in no way means they will pay. You are paying for the secret and Peter made excellent points on the view of a creator. So I can't see anything wrong that Darryl did here. Now if you had been dealing with Darryl Clone # three then yes we would have an issue as # 3 is down right evil;) So Skitch please good luck with what you decide. I have seen where the Widows live and believe me they are plotting to take over the world. This thread has been hijacked enough. Back to the Widow please and back to amazing magic. magicmike30 Michael
Entertainer
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Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
Yes, please. This is not the place to air private matters. This is a review section. So let's get back to the product itself.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
I want to echo Michael's thoughts "Darryl is a first class act period".
I'll defend Darryl anytime, anyplace! Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Skitch Veteran user Philadelphia 400 Posts |
Well, like I said it is missed by many because none of you who responded have the disabilities. I'm also proud to say I've gotten very positive messages concerning this thread towards me and even had a Magic company be willing to refund my money if I can't accomplish the effect, that's all it took was a generous heart, not a Magic discount deal of a life time.
In the end, it pays to put a heart forward before the $$$ which your making anyway. I've said my peace, good day.
§kitch
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Irishghost Inner circle www.gaffguy.com 1228 Posts |
Are we still talking about the BW in here? I was just wondering because the is a lot of one sided bit**ing going on here. I believe that Darryl did try and do the right thing. I also know first hand this has not been the first time Darryl has offered Widows at a discount or free for that matter to people who needed a break, or to have a bit of magic jump start there reasons to push on in life. He offered and you refused, case over. Lets move on a discuss the Widow and all of it's advantages. You have a right to voice your opinion Skitch, but you are really beating a dead horse. If you pm me Skitch I may be able to help you out, that is after I paste our pm on the boards(very childish). I also think you may have made it a little harder for you to get any other future products from creators on a trail basis after this. I would hate to see what you would try and do to someones reputation if they sent out an item to you and billed your credit card.
Lastly, I have let a friend try the BW who is in a wheel chair. He loves it. He is at a better advantage because the specs are above him looking down, and he can ditch things on the off beat. Also people do not suspect anything fishy because he is in a wheel chair(his words not mine) You missed a chance at owning an excellent piece of magic at a discounted price because of your attitude. As for attacking my friends character, so be it, you are allowed to have opinions, just as I am. And I am now done voicing mine. Lets stop the pity parade, and get back to discussing magic.
I get to gaff some cool stuff for some cool people
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