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MagicKim Special user Ã…land, Finland 621 Posts |
Hello, I wonder what sources you would recommend for riffle culling. I.e having the deck face down on the table, doing riffle shuffles and culling the cards at the same time. Tips on other similar culls are welcomed as well. I got the advice from Paul H to get the Card Mastery by Michael MacDougall, and I'm sure it's a great soruce but I still want some more alternatives. And I mean like if someone says to me: can you find a royal flush then I would be able to do so. Thank you.
ps. Did a search, but did not find much. pps. I just bought down under deals and the annotated erdnase (ortiz). You think I'm going to be pleased with them? |
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sodman12 Special user raleigh 601 Posts |
I'm not sure how possible it is to find hands that people call out while riffle culling. its more a long the lines of what you can find usually at best 3 or a kind ect.
someone posted a video not to long ago of face up culling and it was very nice. it only took a few seconds and people called out what ever hand they liked.
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
One of the better riffle shuffle culls in the Stevens cull and that is explained in Revelations. Marlo has several hard to get books on block transfer shuffles in Marlo's "Riffle Shuffle Trilogy".
If you are looking for culls using the jog shuffle - in the hands and off the table. There is the Grismer cull in Revelations. Marlo's lessin out culls in Deck Deception. And the Molinari cull on the DVD-1 of Jimmy Cards Molinari. http://www.jimmycards.com
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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MagicKim Special user Ã…land, Finland 621 Posts |
Thanks guys. Well how do cheats (except picking up the cards from the previous hand) get hold of the cards they stack and bottom deal? (except peeking ) I thought they riffle culled cards? (not like in culling cards when they know what position they are from the top) But something else (the stevens riffle cull, is that a kind where you cull cards which you know the position of?) Like the aces are in the 3rd, 11th and 27 th position or something? The only way I know to get cards that people call out are peeking while shuffling and I tell you, that can take a while.. a looong while when luck isn't on your side.
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braunmagic Veteran user 373 Posts |
Steve Draun has a great method for doing something very similair to this. It is called the "Web Shuffle". It will allow you to stack a Full House such as aces over kings from a spectator shuffled deck. With just a bit of practice you can learn it. The great thing about it is it is done with a very tight riffle not that high peeking riffle a lot of these techniques suffer from. It looks impossible and I beleive it to be one of the best ways to convince people that they should never play poker with you. That being said it is not good for cheating people but is one of the best and most convincing cheating demos that can be done with a deck of cards. It is on one of the cd-roms available through his website http://www.stevedraun.com I think it is on cd-rom#2
Hope that helps, Brent Braun |
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Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
Hi MagicKim,
I may be wrong here, but I have a feeling that you are caught in that confusing space between gambling themed entertainment and real cheating moves and techniques used under fire. There is an overlap, but that overlap uses a gaming table sleight for essentially magical/gambling expose type performance. True gaming moves are usually very specialist. The moves are practiced and perfected over years and the cheater will grind away for hours in a game utilising these select few techniques sparingly. Sleight of hand at the card table does still exist but it is regarded as risky and something a low level cheat might employ. This point was made over one hundred years ago in a book called Sharps and Flats. Exceptions to this rule would be moves such as cold decking and expert use of a hold out gaff. However, there are less risky ways of getting the money at a card table, including gaffed cards such as reading subtle paper for information, collusion play, location play and card counting combined with memory systems. It is very easy to get seduced into a mindset where you feel you have to become a perfectly poised sleight of hand artist with almost supernaturally smooth and deceptive skill. You can almost bust a gut and make life a misery persuing such a huge goal. It is very important to remember that the magical impact of an effect in the card magic/gambling demo domain, has as much if not more to do with your capacity to engage with and entertain your audience than it does about acquiring perfect technique. Hope this helps. As a postscript, if someone asked you to run up and royal flush, you could always say its too difficult but you could show them a bottom deal. You select out the aces openly while using an underspread cull and then go into Harry Lorraine's Poker deal which ends with the said Royal Flush. Its a very entertaining effect and achieves the end result without horrible sleight of hand and murderously hard riffle culls. Regards, Paul H |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
"Sleight of hand at the card table does still exist but it is regarded as risky and something a low level cheat might employ. This point was made over one hundred years ago in a book called Sharps and Flats."
In one way I would agree but then I have seen a lot of money won with simple sleight of hand. Also many documented big scams in casino's in modern times, that have netted millions, have been executed with sleight of hand. Cheating at cards generally speaking however is small time stuff no matter how it's done. A top shoplifter will earn more money than a top card cheat but it's just not as much fun.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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ronfour Regular user 162 Posts |
MagicKim,
Are you aware that all the people mentioned in this topic have no experience using their moves in a money game? |
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Expertmagician Inner circle 2478 Posts |
I personally don't like looking at the faces of the cards while riffle culling. The easiest way to do this is to use a marked deck. Of course, it is a bit harder to cull specific cards like aces. But, if you are shooting for any pair or 3 of a kind, you can look at the top card (marks) of either packet and use that for a starting point. Then by looking at the backs of the cards you find the pair or 3rd, which matches your starting point card.
Edge marks are another option, but they are tough to use because they are very small. I find Juice or luminous better. It is also possible to use Ultra-Luminous on the white borders of the cards. Any technology which works on the white borders of the cards requires more subtle marks than when marking solution is applied to the printed area of the cards.
Long Island,
New York |
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Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
Hi ronfour,
How on earth do you know this? Have you done a survey of the members in this respect? If so I look forward to your questionaire with considerable interest. Regards, Paul H |
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Expertmagician Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Paul H,
I agree, there is no way to know....sure an anonomous survey may help....but, it is likely to be wrong. I know that personally, I would never admit nor deny anything. Let people make their own mind up. It does me no good to admit or deny, it is a double edged sword....so, I am better off saying nothing
Long Island,
New York |
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ronfour Regular user 162 Posts |
Paul H and Expertmagician,
In my reply, I was referring to the people MagicKim is studying and the people that are being reccommended to him on this topic. If any of these experts have experience in money games please tell me about them. Most of them have said they have no experience using their moves in a money game. MagicKim said he wanted to learn how to cheat and I was asking him if he knew their qualifications. Is this relevent? |
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Andrei Veteran user Romania 353 Posts |
Ronfour, to dismiss the advice of certain card experts because, as you say, they've made the claim they that they have never cheated, is not a wise decision for MagicKim to make, in my opinion. He is doing fine pursuing these routes.
Of course, he would be better served if you, yourself, recommended some available writings by people who have openly admitted to manipulative play. In fact, I'd like to read those, as well. What are your recommendations? Andrei |
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ronfour Regular user 162 Posts |
Find someone with experience.
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Andrei Veteran user Romania 353 Posts |
In some places that might be an easier task than in others.
MagicKim lives in Finland. Until he somehow stumbles across someone with experience, his best bet is to look into those books. Andrei |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
Or learn about strippers.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Paul H Inner circle UK South Coast 1135 Posts |
Or both
Regards, Paul H |
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ronfour Regular user 162 Posts |
MagicKim,
If you read all the books and watch all the videos on the subject, practice, practice, practice and learn all the moves, listen to the advice given here and on the internet, you will soon be able to write a book and make a video. |
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MagicKim Special user Ã…land, Finland 621 Posts |
If I would have the time and money I'd be spending a lot more time reading such books and practising but I don't. That is why I ask for advice so that I can, as quickly as possible, learn the things I wish to learn. As stated, I live in Finland.. actually on a small island between Sweden and Finland where no-one but me basically does magic so I'm not likely to find someone experienced. Actually, people (2-3) have come to me for advice..
I appreciate all the advice I can get. Thanks. |
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Andrei Veteran user Romania 353 Posts |
I don't think ronfour was referring to experienced magicians, and I also think his last post was sarcastic.
I can definitely see where he's coming from, but, given your condition, there's not much else you can do: get a book, study it, get another one, etc. All the while keeping your eyes open for someone who knows how (and where and why) to handle cards. Andrei |
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