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Banester Special user 669 Posts |
I think that DJ's have purchased the CD's or MP3's and are playing them for your enjoyment. He is not selling the music rather the services he is providing (stereo, commemtary, props, etc). You can play the music for all to hear as long as you are not charging for it. People are paying to see the magic and the magician is not selling musical CD's. The only issue I could see arising would be if you made a DVD of your performance with the back ground music being from a copyrighted cd or mp3. I would think you would need some type of release to do that and also state the origin of the music in the credits area.
The art of a magician is to create wonder.
If we live with a sense of wonder, our lives become filled with joy -Doug Henning- |
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
Banester, you are incorrect.
From the SOCAN website: 18 Recorded Music for Dancing Annual fee, based on the capacity, days per week and months per year of operation: ranging from $267.33 to $1,069.32 per 100 persons, plus 10% for each additional 20 persons. 8 Receptions, Conventions,Assemblies and Fashion Shows Fee per event, based on room capacity: a) Without Dancing: from $20.56 to $87.40 b) With Dancing: from $41.13 to $174.79 Bottom line, if it's on a commercial CD and at the same time somebody is taking in money, that music is seen as being used (even partially) to help you make that money. If the music is helping you make money, it's your obligation to pay the publisher. |
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Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie Special user Toronto, Canada 804 Posts |
Thanks for using such a good reference, silverking!
For everyone else, please do not use conjecture in this particular thread. Instead, please provide reliable, easily verifiable references from regulating authorites. I hope this will remain a factual, source-supported thread for magicians. To further support silverking's quotes, here's a link to that info at the SOCAN Web site. The prices will be different in America, but the basic regulations are the same.
Dan McLean Jr
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
As a DJ myself I pay out a minimum $1500 a year in fees (this include fees for my magic shows as well and other DJs). It is actually a small fee when you break it down to just over $100 per month.
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John Martin Inner circle 1017 Posts |
Bill,
That's fine broken down the way you've mentioned above. Consider though, if I read the tariffs correctly for a magicians, "11B Comedy Shows and Magic Shows Fee per show: $36.60 where use of music is incidental. Where comedy or magic show is primarily a musical act, Tariff 4.A applies", at 250 birthday parties a year that's $9150.00, hardly a small fee. Minus expenses, minus cost of equipement, minus insurance, minus business fees, minus taxes....minus...minus....minus... it's no wonder people cheat the "SYSTEM". Something to think about!!! |
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
This is why I use my own music at my shows. I only use recorded music once in a while.
http://www.socan.ca/jsp/en/resources/tariffs.jsp (ref 11b and 4a Well if $9000 is 3% of your earnings, then what are you complaining about? Tarriff 4a=Minimum is $20/show. 250 shows=$5000 If you are charging $200.00 per show that is $50,000/year you are making so $5000 is a small amount in comparison. It is a cost of doing business along with insurance and other expenses. Having said that, I don't think 4a applies because you may not be PRIMARILY a musical act. You would have to contact SOCAN and ask them what applies because you are not a musical act but the music is not incidental. (sorry for the conjecture). |
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John Martin Inner circle 1017 Posts |
You're right, but I wouldn't call 10 percent of your income a small amount!!! Everyone know this system is there to make the rich richer and has very LITTLE to do with protecting the artist. Fairness never even enters into the picture.
I'll just stick with my royalty free music. John |
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abrell Loyal user Remscheid, Germany 284 Posts |
In Germany all persons/ organisations using music in public and/or for commercial uses have to pay some fee at GEMA. This is a duty especially for the venue owner. But the venue owner will need a play list with: name of composer, title of music, name of musicians/band, name of poet, name of record company, length of music title.
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purplemonk Regular user 116 Posts |
Very true.. however it also says "Where comedy or magic show is primarily a musical act" ... I know my magic show is not primarily a musical act.
Quote:
On 2006-10-25 22:11, mrbilldentertainer wrote: |
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Dave Miller New user DaveM 2 Posts |
I have been very concerned about using copyrighted music in my performances. The reason is, I hope (and hope and hope) to be able to use video of these performances in a DVD product that I will sell. In looking for royalty free music, I ran across a great site with very good music. The company is called Digital Juice <http://www.digitaljuice.com> and I am using their music for everything we do. All of the tracks in their StackTraxx are layered so you can turn different instruments off and on. Be sure to watch for the specials - that is the only way to buy. I got 10 volumes for $249. That is more music than we will ever need and it is royalty free. Hope that helps someone!
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Killed_CZ Regular user Czech republic, Prague 173 Posts |
Well in Czech you pay to organization that covers Czech musicians, but you pay for all-around-the-world music
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btedeski Veteran user Pittsburgh PA 322 Posts |
When you purchase "Royalty Free" music for your show, read the license before you buy.. I have a large collection of "Royalty Free" music that can be used for just about anything BUT not live shows. I can use it for Video production, web sites etc. But for my show I would have to pay extra. So unless you are buying music meant for Magic shows, Read the License. "Royalty Free" is not the same as "Public Domain"
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Ashkenazi the Pretty Good Veteran user Northern California 366 Posts |
I appreciate all the effort you have collectively put into this, and mean no disrespect, but what I would want from this thread is a step by step process:
Some web site where we enter the songs, and it tells how much we owe to whom, if we use commercial music, and that takes into account how it's used, and for what audience. I surmise that no such place exists. Thanks, km
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We could have been practicing! |
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
It's not as easy as that. You have to contact your areas governing body (BMI, ASCAP) Websites are located in the first posting in this thread. They will tell you what/if you owe. You'll be dealing with real world people getting all the details of your case and may ask for more info.
Custom made royalty free music is the best way to go. |
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MagicofKevin_85 New user 17 Posts |
Okay guys, still confused about the use of songs in our performances. I'm a police officer in Michigan, as well as an illusionist, and had 2 semesters of criminal law so you think I would understand this one. Is it safe to say that I cannot use any original music (ie. disney, recording artist's music) in my performances? I guess I see a lot of illusionists using this type of music. Are we all going to end up behind bars. HA HA. Please clarify. Thanks.
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
Again, contact your country's governing body to find out exactly what you need to do. Basically though, one should only use songs they are licensed to use, either through direct licensing or through working under the umbrella of somebody else's license. But again, contact ASCAP, BMI etc. to find out what you need to do if anything.
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Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie Special user Toronto, Canada 804 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-12-07 00:50, mrbilldentertainer wrote: I'm completely with Mr Bill on this. Don't rely on us for legal advice, EXCEPT when we say to check with the people that administer the regulations ... BMI, ASCAP, SOCAN, etc. Each country has its own regulating body(s).
Dan McLean Jr
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MagicofKevin_85 New user 17 Posts |
Thanks for the advice, I'll check into it. Best
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David Bilan Special user Clarksville, TN 714 Posts |
Kevin,
THIS PERTAINS TO U.S. LICENSING (in other countries, your legal rights may vary). As a police officer, I'm sure you know that not all speeders end up getting a ticket every time they speed, but those who speed all the time are more likely to get caught. It also depends when and where you speed. Will everyone using music without a license/permission be sued? Of course not. Is it illegal? See Section 17 of U.S. Code (Copyright infringement). Like speeding the probability for problems depends on where and when you use the music. For stage use, you need "Dramatic" or "Grand" rights. as part of a DVD, you need "Synchronization" rights. If you tape a stage show to sell as a DVD, you need both. The copyright may be split several ways: Songwriter, performer, publisher, recording company, etc... If part of a movie sound track, there's a whole additional layer. Part of my job is keeping the U.S. government out of hot water by preventing the Army from using copyright music without permission. No, the government is not immune from civil suits. We can all debate the ethics of copyright, just as we can debate speeding. The issue is whether you can afford to get caught. In US law, everyone is liable: The venue and the performer. Production music is the least expensive answer. Popular tunes can cost an arm and a leg to use, if youcan even get permission. John1964 says 10% of his income isn't a small amount. Perhaps not. But if the music is critical to making your act magical and unique, then 10% might be a small price to pay (especially considering the cost of going to court). Like everyone else on this forum, I'll end with the recommendation to contact an entertainment attorney and/or a music licensing agency. David
Yes, I am a magician. No I did not make my hare (hair) disappear... it just took early retirement.
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CCPCris Loyal user Alabama 280 Posts |
I am just going to sing live for my next show, this is to much to worry about. LOL.
making the unreal, real...really!
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