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shanla Loyal user Japan, Tokyo 285 Posts |
A few months ago I was going to learn John Ramsey’s ”The Cylinder and Coins”
I had tried to find the original booklet of his routine, but I couldn’t. So now I have purchased John Carney’ s “Carneycopia” and will learn his “The Streamlined Cylinder and Coins”. But I want to know more information about this magic. The other published variations of this effect I know are; Dai Vernon’s routine appeared in Ganson’s “ Art of Close Up Magic” Michael Gallo’ s “Covering Ramsey” explained in Richard’s Almanac Does anyone know more? Both routines and tips are good.
http://www.cardcoinmagic.com
https://www.youtube.com/user/tomosanb?feature=mhee Strive to enter in by the narrow door. |
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Chris S Veteran user 393 Posts |
Do a search on this topic. A thread has already dealt with this. Look for Bob Kohler's response.
May your moral compass guide you true - South West is where the honourable man fare. Pity those who lose their way...
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
The original book was published in 1948 and is a bit rare.
Andrew Galloway has written three books that cover the material. Please contact someone like Richard Hatch at H&R books to see about acquiring the original sources. David Roth has a handling in Expert Coin Magic. I had the first (only?) non gaffed version published in Apocalypse back in the 80s. Just a few weeks ago two tapes of Andrew Galloway performing and explaining the material (including the cylinder and coins) were released and are now available. And good luck with the routine. It is a wonderful handling of the cap and pence that can play very well to audiences.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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shanla Loyal user Japan, Tokyo 285 Posts |
I have a bit of problem about the prop, “stack of coins.”
I have purchased a stack of halves from Johnson Products, but it is of five halves! Because necessarily number of coins for that effect is four, that stack is not good. Does anyone know where I can get stack of FOUR halves? Or, do I have to get rid of lowermost coin from my stack?
http://www.cardcoinmagic.com
https://www.youtube.com/user/tomosanb?feature=mhee Strive to enter in by the narrow door. |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
You're should be using silver dollars not halves.
Paul Wilson has a version in 5x5 Scotland to include with the above. Do see the "Gaffs vs. Knucklebusting" thread in this forum for more The stacks need to be custom made. I took the cheap route and had a local machinist make mine.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Shanla,
In Carneycopia, Steven Minch expresses the opinion (presumably John Carney's) that the Johnson five-coin stack should pass, just as it is. He notes that the stack is not in view for very long, and it is unlikely that anyone will be either able or inclined to count the edges. I don't know about this. It's OK for practice, but if the audience really isn't going to notice a coin or two extra, then that's where I'm going to ditch the coins I've vanished. Considered that way, I think I would worry a bit about that. Anyway, the alteration is not that difficult. Don't worry about losing the swivel, you don't need that. Just yank the last one off, and glue the stack back together.
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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Clayman Loyal user New Jersey 243 Posts |
Quote:
But I want to know more information about this magic. Could you tell me of which volume of Lewis Ganson's “Art of Close Up Magic” that Dai Vernon has his routine? Much appreciated... Thank you.
"A flash of silvery light ..and it was gone."
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Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
I absolutely go for the best gaffs available, but in the case of a stack I really have no idea why there should be any problem in quality.
Isn't the stack used for the routine just four coins glued or soldered together with the lower coins a hole turned out? (And even that hole is not necessary.) Doesn't look to me as a serious precision-job for any metalworker!?
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
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Chris S Veteran user 393 Posts |
I'm sorry, but I really can't see the point on spending too much for a stack of coins. Unless you have another use for it, the stack is not in play for more than a few seconds and I submit that if you could find a cheap soldered stack of Morgans at a bargain basement price, then do that and save your money for the exhibition gaffs, the ones that will actually be used openly and scrutinized by the audience, even just to make you feel like you have a work of art instead of just another gaff. It simply is not something you need to spend big on. I had a Johnson stack and I pulled off the bottom coin and sanded off the rivet that was now exposed. I lost none of the 'spreading' function (even the spreading function is redundant upon consideration.)
May your moral compass guide you true - South West is where the honourable man fare. Pity those who lose their way...
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Unless the original Ramsay coin vanish sequence is a perfect fit for your performing style, go with the six coin stack and do a different vanish sequence.
Getting stuck is wasteful
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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shanla Loyal user Japan, Tokyo 285 Posts |
Thank you for so many responses to my post.
I just have read the "Gaffs vs. Knucklebusting" thread, and I wish I had read those precious opinions earlier. In fact, it was Bob Kohler’s performance that introduced me to the cylinder and coins for the first time. I had seen his performances of C&C, Three Shell Game and others on TV show about 7 or 8 years ago. Now I’m anxious for his DVD like many others. Anyway, I will pull off the bottom coin from five as mentioned by Curtis and Chris. Quote:
Clayman, Dai Vernon’s variation is described in volume 1 of “The Art of Close Up Magic” on page 232. He supposes to use a banknote instead of cardboard or leather cylinder. That is an idea that I intend to employ in my own performance.
http://www.cardcoinmagic.com
https://www.youtube.com/user/tomosanb?feature=mhee Strive to enter in by the narrow door. |
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doug brewer V.I.P. 1142 Posts |
Obtaining the stack is the least of your problems. It's the leather cylinder that gave me heartburn. There is a wonderful guy up in the northeast that made mine. Unbelievable workmanship, with leather plugs on the ends and everything. Unfortunately, I can't find his card anymore.
Doug Brewer San Diego, CA |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Thomas Wayne makes a leather cylinder. Contact him on this board, or you can get one from Denny and Lee's.
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Chris S Veteran user 393 Posts |
Mike Gallo had a great routine in his 'Close-Up Insider' Notes some time ago. His was very clever since he routined it from go to woe so that it would be completely reset at the end and ready for performance again. Those plugs on the ends were also important for his routine.
May your moral compass guide you true - South West is where the honourable man fare. Pity those who lose their way...
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-01-16 17:10, Clayman wrote: I believe it is volume I. Also, if you're looking for a leather cylinder I can have one made for you for $24. http://www.theambitiouscard.com/paypal/cylinders.html If that suits you, let me know. Frank Frank
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Props... how to?
A long, long time ago someone pointed out that a small package of ACCENT (msg junk) food additive is a cylinder of the right diameter for use with half dollars. What a cheap source of cylinder. It’s one dollar. This is cardboard and easy to cut to the two-inch height. Then get a pill bottle top that fits on top. And the insert of the pill bottle cap makes a great plug for under the cylinder. The fussy part is getting a silk pocket square and sticking a fishing weight under the corners. The Ramsay routines were designed to play off of the myth of Scottish 'cheapness'. Hence the tissue paper, paper cups, cork slices, beans in a pill bottle. The routines were also constructed to play off of the latest fad moves that magicians would know, like the Downs coin palms, the Mora ball moves etc. A key to the cylinder & coin routine fooling the magicians of the time was the cognitive dissonance between the cheap painted cylinder and the routining that NEVER shows the cylinder empty and instead offers only indirect proofs. Anyone out there doing a version with six or more coins?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts |
Jon,
I beg to differ; Figure Twelve on page 13 of the Farelli manuscript ("John Ramsay's Cylinder and Coins - Described in Minutest Detail by Victor Farelli") clearly shows John Ramsay (he posed for the photos) spinning the empty cylinder on his horizontally-held wand while allowing the spectators to peer though its length. ALL accounts of Ramsay's original handling, and all current incarnations using a wand, include this important "prover." Regards, Thomas Wayne
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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eddieloughran Special user 942 Posts |
Hi,
The second GALLOWAY video has a clip of J.R. showing the cylinder as Thomas points out. He takes the routine at a very fast pace. Galloway says that a silver painted cylinder was used to reduce `flashing`. I think cork was used to prevent the noise when it drops. I made my own stack from old half crowns. I drilled small holes round the inside, joined them with a junior hacksaw, filed out the inside and super-glued them together. Works fine. David Roth’s version is pretty good. Best wishes -- Eddie |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Yes, you folks are correct.
I seem to have recalled the routine incorrectly from the sources and inserted something I discovered from experience. Thanks for helping keep the pubic record straight. - Jon
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Ronnie Ramin Loyal user 233 Posts |
A toilet paper roll is also the correct size for Silver Dollars. Just cut it to the length you need and paint to suit.
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