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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » ANTINOMY - Perception & Deception » » Swiss on Street Magic (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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evanthx
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I always thought street magic was just close-up magic; other than marketing terms I just don't see a difference.

I walk up to strangers at restaurants who have no idea who I am and blow them away quite often. The street magic stuff is doing exactly the same thing, just outside instead of in a restaurant. It looks to me like the tricks marketed to street magicians are pretty much exactly what would work for me in a restaurant. And the selection criteria by which I would purchase them is the same, as well.

Most of the public has never seen a close-up magician before, though - so seeing Blaine come on in his first special using store-bought tricks that every restaurant worker has been using for years was a bit of a revelation. So I think most folks thought it was new, just because it hasn't gotten the exposure and they hadn't seen it. To me, everything else just led from folks getting that first bit of exposure to something new to them.

So to summarize, I just don't see the difference. Same stuff, different setting. Does that make for a new classification?
Kronos9326
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Quote:
On 2007-04-11 00:17, silverking wrote:
To be honest, comments on the Swiss article from people who make ANY money of MARKETING street magic in any of its forms are instantly suspect and carry lighter weight due to the inherent conflict of interest experienced by their author.

Overtones of protecting ones paycheque and all.


Suddenly we're not allowed to have an opinion?

Perhaps I should just let people tell me what to think now. Since any thinking that I now do for myself is 'suspect' in your eyes.

It doesn't matter who I work for, or what I do for a living, I'm still allowed to have my own opinion.

David.
Craig Ousterling
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Hey guys, I can settle this RIGHT NOW. Street Magic MUST exist! After all Wikipedia wouldn't lie.... right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_magic




Lordy it was hard not to add Swiss' name to that list for a goof.

~Craig

p.s. - read this with heavy sarcasm in your 'silent' voice.
silverking
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David,
I DID post that the opinions of those who make a living off 'street magic' marketing hype were 'suspect' and of 'lighter weight' because of the inherent perception that there's a conflict of interest.

I didn't state anywhere in my post that I felt opinions should be restricted in any way, shape, or form.
Kronos9326
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I have absolutely no problem with Swiss's Essay... I DO however take issue with the tone, and the completely unprofessional manner in which portions of it were written. There is absolutely no call for some of those comments and for us to simply allow it speaks of the incredible bias that some of us claim we don't have, when we actually do.

I know that what Swiss wrote is supposed to be 'his' opinion, but for a person in his position to take the low road speaks more about him, that his article does about his thoughts.

I've said it before. His thoughts regarding people who's opinions aren't his own are legendary. I've personally seen him dismiss (and not in a good way) people who were able to provide him their thoughts on a subject, simply because they 'DARED' to disagree with him.

That is not the type of magician that I want speaking for me, or telling me what do/learn/think. Someone that is that close-minded shouldn't be speaking for any of us.

I honestly don't care what a person's beliefs are, but I respect them, and that persons right to have them. But what I can't respect is the manner in which those beliefs are conveyed to those who think different.

THAT is the issue I have with this essay, and a lot of the comments that people are making. Everyone is screaming 'I'm right, and you're wrong' when there is no CLEAR answer to the whole situation.

David.
Casey Sullivan
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I did not think Swiss was rude or unprofessional. He writes well and has a good vocabulary. Sometimes that is enough for people to label someone rude.

But that is just MY opinion. I like that Swiss states his and backs it up. We need more people like that in magic.

Casey
Aaron DeLong
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The delivery Swiss is giving is merely his perception. I believe he states that over and over again that this is how he sees it. As a columnist, he gives us insight into a subject matter that is obviously a hot button. I see no unprofessionalism in his delivery.

I have heard a lot about Jamy's reputation of being rude to magicians that aren't on his level. Maybe that is why everyone is responding negatively to his column. Had Michael Ammar written this column, using the exact same words it might have been better received. But the guy who already has so many enemies perks up and says what everyone is thinking gets boo-ed.

Separate Jamy from the article itself if you are able and tell me that the points in it aren't valid. He makes a great argument. I have not heard anyone argue the other side of it effectively without being completely contradictory to themselves.

Cheers,
Aaron DeLong
Michael Ammar will one day cure all known diseases as a kicker to his coins across routine.

Get the facts! Visit www.AmmarFacts.com!
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silverking
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The article is professional in tone, and obviously written by a wordsmith with considerable experience at his craft.

Folks seem to have difficulty with the fact that Jamy ISN'T a pandering author who's primary goal when writing is on not pi_sing off the person he's writing about.

His opinion is personal to be sure, but he has provided context for his statements and has not 'tailored' the article to suit a full page advertiser or somebody else with a perceived stake in what he says in his article.

Quite frankly, I'd prefer a LOT more articles like this on magic, and for that reason will be dropping my subscription to one of the big magic magazines and subscribing post haste to Antinomy. (I'm keeping my Genii subscription though, as Kaufman still has what it takes to give HIS real opinion on something without worrying about who he's pi_sing off).

Most importantly, the Swiss article has generated more discussion in the Café than any other article to date that's been refered to in the Café magazine forums.

I think this is a good thing as I consider discussion between practitioners to be a big part of the lifeblood of any hobby or profession.
Agreeing with each other isn't remotely part of the formula, but speaking with each other about it in an effort to see all sides of a topic certainly is.

Vive la Différence
Bill Nuvo
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I took a look at the Street Magic magazine in a store I visited yesterday. Not something I would pick up but it is quality produced (not commenting on content)

The one thing I did find funny and is also food for thought...there was an ad from Levi in there showing how a "street" magician should look (of course wearing levi jeans). Even retail corporations understand that street magic is simply an image to sell and I believe further lends more credibility to the Swiss article recently written.

If a non-magic related firm can get into selling the "street magician" image, a question comes to mind...Has magic become too capitalistic?
shaunproof
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That article was too long for me. I'll wait until the DVD comes out.
Tempesta
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I agree and disagree with some of his points. I also appreciate his honesty, even if it is insulting. I'm pro-honesty and I'm not a believer in sugarcoating.

However, with that sense of honesty, you should have a motive of wanting to help solve the problem, or a motive with respectful criticism. In some parts, while he claims to care, his attitude reflects carelessness. If a parent were to handle a problem with their child like he's handling the problem with his art, they'd go to prison for abuse.

Surely, when he was writing some of the low remarks on his fellow magi, he couldn't have expected everyone to take him seriously. Not only does his argument commit informal fallacies, but he seemed to only poke fun at the problem rather than providing a solution. Banishing the name/genre of Street Magic? What is that supposed to do? People are still going to do it.

If he's so adamant about leading the revolution for pure, brilliant magic, then he needs to take a break from writing insults and throwing a temper tantrum, and get off the armchair, and help teach some reality.

He can start with the importance of being humble before your art, if he CAN, which I doubt.

The way I see it, "Street Magic" is a name, it's a "cool" term to give to the outdoors, walk-around setting STYLE of performing.

The problem is not Street Magic. Street Magic is helping the art by bringing in people to help advance it. The real problem spawns from the people who are not willing to humble themselves to such an artform, thus resulting in poorly done magic, poor attitudes that reflect a sense of carelessness, and a childish perspective on the true goals of magic.

So instead of covering our mouth and shunning the poor guy who accidentally mutters the fateful words of "Street Magic," let's abolish all this arrogant, self-righteous, "I know everything" bullcrap. That's my opinion of a solution, and I stick by my words.

||sean ||
//Sean Beard
Hay Harrey
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Quote:
On 2007-04-16 03:10, Tempesta wrote:
I agree and disagree with some of his points. I also appreciate his honesty, even if it is insulting. I'm pro-honesty and I'm not a believer in sugarcoating.

However, with that sense of honesty, you should have a motive of wanting to help solve the problem, or a motive with respectful criticism. In some parts, while he claims to care, his attitude reflects carelessness. If a parent were to handle a problem with their child like he's handling the problem with his art, they'd go to prison for abuse.

Surely, when he was writing some of the low remarks on his fellow magi, he couldn't have expected everyone to take him seriously. Not only does his argument commit informal fallacies, but he seemed to only poke fun at the problem rather than providing a solution. Banishing the name/genre of Street Magic? What is that supposed to do? People are still going to do it.

If he's so adamant about leading the revolution for pure, brilliant magic, then he needs to take a break from writing insults and throwing a temper tantrum, and get off the armchair, and help teach some reality.

He can start with the importance of being humble before your art, if he CAN, which I doubt.

The way I see it, "Street Magic" is a name, it's a "cool" term to give to the outdoors, walk-around setting STYLE of performing.

The problem is not Street Magic. Street Magic is helping the art by bringing in people to help advance it. The real problem spawns from the people who are not willing to humble themselves to such an artform, thus resulting in poorly done magic, poor attitudes that reflect a sense of carelessness, and a childish perspective on the true goals of magic.

So instead of covering our mouth and shunning the poor guy who accidentally mutters the fateful words of "Street Magic," let's abolish all this arrogant, self-righteous, "I know everything" bullcrap. That's my opinion of a solution, and I stick by my words.

||sean ||


Spoken like a true Ellusionist team member.

Harrey Hay
Kronos9326
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Quote:
On 2007-04-16 15:13, Hay Harrey wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-04-16 03:10, Tempesta wrote:
........


Spoken like a true Ellusionist team member.

Harrey Hay



Perhaps you might feel like actually CONTRIBUTING something to the discussion rather than taking potshots?

David.
Hay Harrey
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Quote:
On 2007-04-16 16:28, Kronos9326 wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-04-16 15:13, Hay Harrey wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-04-16 03:10, Tempesta wrote:
........


Spoken like a true Ellusionist team member.

Harrey Hay



Perhaps you might feel like actually CONTRIBUTING something to the discussion rather than taking potshots?

David.


It wasn't a potshot. You are reading into what I wrote.

You seem tense, relax. I know these guys are cracking on your employer, but they are allowed to voice their opinions about it just as I am allowed.

Harry Hay
silverking
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The concept of an Ellusionist employee telling us all how an independant author like Swiss SHOULD have written the article is in and of itself some fine marketing!
Hay Harrey
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Ahem.... so someone else noticed that too.
jclark
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LOL. This is too fun. There's another revival thread here:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......art=0#12

JC
bsears
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Is that true about the Street Magic magazine telling street magicians how to dress to look cool? In jeans!? Pleeeeese tell me this was a parody or some kind of joke. It has to be. If it wasn't, I think think that pretty much would some up everything Jamy was saying, right?

Anyway, I'm thankful that we have excellent thinkers/writers like Swiss, Kaufman, and Mike Close who care enough about the art to express their opinions honestly.
closeupcardician
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This was an enjoyable read for me "A thinker" as somone pointed out earlier. It is things like this that we need to think of kind of like eating fried chicken. What do we do with it. We eat the meat and throw away the bones. In other words... Take Swiss' message for what it is worth. and due away with undo criticisims.
"Magic as art cannot live without love. Love of some kind. There are novels without love, other arts without love. But there can be no magic without love." - Rodney Reyes
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2007-07-20 18:09, closeupcardist wrote:
...We eat the meat and throw away the bones. In other words... Take Swiss' message for what it is worth. and due away with undo criticisims.


Hold onto that text. When you are ready... we can discuss.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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