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TroyRoark Loyal user Springfield IL 282 Posts |
Hi there.
Up until about 6 months ago, I was going after new school shows with postcards. They looked great, and I saw some success, so I continued doing it for a couple years. It seemed like a decent way to prospect new clients. Then, I ran out of postcards. Call it laziness, but I just never re-ordered. I didn't want to quit mailing out to new prospects, so I sent out a batch of flyers. Black and white and photocopied. I noticed a real surge in the number of bookings (about 5% and opposed to the 1-2% from the postcards.) So, have any of you concentrated your direct mailing efforts to postcards? And have any of you mixed flyers and postcards, and noticed a difference in the success rate of each? I'm interested in hearing other's results. |
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TroyRoark Loyal user Springfield IL 282 Posts |
Let me answer some questions that I know some of you are going to ask...
1) The postcard sold my most popular school show, while my flyer promoted all three shows that I offer. Here's the wierd part, they all bought the show that I would have pushed on the postcard, so I don't think that has anything to do with the success. 2) I sent these out regularly throughout the year. I'm aware of the "hot times" to send out material to schools, and I didn't send out flyers during those times. So I don't think timing had anything to do with it. Post away! |
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MichaelKent Special user 560 Posts |
I've also seen postcard campaigns give a higher rate of return than other types of mailers.
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mrunge Inner circle Charleston, SC 3716 Posts |
Whatever you send out, just make sure it looks professional. That's the only way you'll be given serious consideration.
Do NOT send badly copied stuff like one might find stapled to a telephone pole for an underground bar band! Mark. |
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kenscott Inner circle 1869 Posts |
So are you saying the letter pulled more return for you than the postcard?
I think mixing them up is great. I send post cards and letters. Ken |
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TroyRoark Loyal user Springfield IL 282 Posts |
Yes the flyer (not a letter) got a better response. And the flyer didn't look all that great either. I mean, it was a photocopy.
I don't send letters. I normally send a flyer that highlights my three shows (a few sentences each), has my rates, a couple sentences about me, and that's it. It also has a couple good pictures of me on it. It works well. I really want to know which one gets the best response, especially if you've sent both flyers and postcards out. Where's the best bang for your buck in your experience. |
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joshlondon17 Special user San Diego, CA 685 Posts |
I haven't been in this section lately, but anyway it's nice to be back. Here's something I posted a few months ago that might be of some value:
"I agree! Mailing is a great way to generate leads and book shows. HypnotizeAmerica PM'd me and asked how I justify my 2 letters than a phone call. Below is my response. I only add this here, as I think that it may help people with their marketing. "Well, my marketing ideas and plans are very different than the normal. I've been asked to write a book on the subject and declined; however, recently I've found it beneficial for me to do so. That aside (you should see a book towards the end of the year, by the way), I use the postcard as a way of "getting my name" in front of the decision makers. Then once I know they've received my postcard, usually 2 weeks, I follow up with a letter. The reason for this is that 9 times out of 10 my (and your) postcard has ended up in the trash. People often sort the mail in the mail room and, if (and only if) it gets past them, the assistants throw out the postcard so they don't bore the boss with that. Postcards are often viewed as "junk mail." But if I'm lucky, the postcard will make it to the desk of the V.P. (I always mail to V.P.s because they are mostly the decision makers, and if not, they persuade the decision maker to hire me since they've talked with me, seen my press kit, etc.). Once the V.P. reads it, it is usually thrown out. And as Dai Vernon says, "Out of sight, out of mind." I want to stay in their mind. So, I send them a letter. Now I know for almost 100% certainty the V.P. will receive the letter, read it, and throw it away. I then send another letter and follow up with a phone call, "Did you receive my letters, etc?" Then, I start a rapport with the person. My philosophy is to build solid friends in high places, places where they can and will book me. With other methods out there, you send something and wait. I send, send, send, call, etc. And I keep a "friendship" going with them. I want clients for life, and to get that, I have to put out the money. But when I do, it's worth it! I've worked with Sony since I was 15. I'm now 22. The way I got the job was my Dad introduced me to the V.P. I showed him some card tricks, and he loved it. Ever since then, I've been working with Sony for 3 times a year. I've grossed over $20,000 with them! And that's just one example! Another thing I do, which is absolutely unheard of in the magic business (with exception to Joel Bauer and others), is that I fly out and meet with the V.P. and, most of the time, President. This is one of the best ways to book a show. It shows them how much you mean business and that you're serious. So that's a little about why I do it the way I do it. Understand that this is what works for me, and it could work for you; you just need to know exactly how to do it and why you do it. So look for my book to be coming out soon!" Any other questions, I'd be happy to answer! Josh London P.S. Still have not finished the book. I got caught up in making an illusion show, tore a ligament in my knee, you know same old same old. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Josh you may have indeed hit on a fantastic way to do direct mail. NO DOUBT.
But direct mail has a very low return in general. You have made the best of it and that is the secret to any marketing campaign. While you need to cultivate relationships with people, heck my whole career is based on exactly this idea, the idea that flying out and meeting with the President of the company gets a bit tough when you do more than 10 shows a month. To fly out to try to nail down every show becomes really expensive. When do you decide to "fly out" to meet them? At what part of the process do you do this? I mean nobody books 100% of prospects. The idea that you pay for airfare to nail it down seems quite expensive. I have LOTS of corporate clients. Most of them I have the relationship of which you speak. BUT I am curious as to when you decide to drop the money on airfare. I am not saying your wrong, just curious as how you keep expences to a minimum. I could not imagine having to fly to Min. to talk with the president of 3m, then Florida to the Council of Logistics Management, then Philidelphia to the AMResorts company. I just was curious as to how you do that. It seems to drive up expences on every client.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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joshlondon17 Special user San Diego, CA 685 Posts |
Danny, my arch nemisis (just kidding-I really am) we meet again,
I only fly for meeting when I feel that the client is almost close to buying. I should mentian I am charging probably 3-4 times the amount you think I'm charging so I'm justified in that way. When a client is almost ready to plunk down 5 figures to book me I'll saddle up and head out. I don't fly much anymore and when I do (once or twice every 2 months) I use my frequent flyer miles, which coincedently past clients have paid for via travel fees. I realize that it sounds stupid, but I want (and get) the "big" shows and for me, it's essential to say, "You're in New York, I'm in San Diego, I'll see you in 2 days and you'll see why companies just like yours hire me over and over again!" That's strong to say and people really take notice. I got the idea from none other than Joel Bauer. We talked on the phone for hours one day and he said fly out and talk with the client and you'll see big leaps and bounds in you booking fees and repeat clients. Might not work for everyone, but it works for me. Just another idea to store in the back of your mind. Josh London |
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jakeg Inner circle 1741 Posts |
What do you include in the text of the postcard? Rates? Show discription? Are most of your replies phoned in?
jake g |
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joshlondon17 Special user San Diego, CA 685 Posts |
I do not include rates in the post card, I can tell you that. I have a super nice photo of my stage show with cool light, effects, fog, chicks, etc. on one side. Name, #, website, normal contact info and a short 1 paragraph text block.
It took years and years and years to develop a post card that worked and was cool looking, that also gave the feel that this guy is expensive. You just have to try campaigns overs and over again till you see results, then stick with it. If I ever finish my book there will be photos, text, etc. from my current and past post cards. I also have used faxes to some success. I forgot to comment on something Danny said above: "But direct mail has a very low return in general. You have made the best of it and that is the secret to any marketing campaign." That is correct. But when I do mailings I do 10,000 pieces and if I get a 2-3% (which is low for me) I've easly paid for the campain start to finish over 10 fold. You shouldn't focus on the percentages so much as the dollars. If you spend $1,000 on a campaign (finding leads, postage, printing, etc.) and 20 people contact you (which is very low) and you book 5 (again, I'm being conservative) at $2,000 a show that's a profit of $9,000. Plus charge seperately for air fare, hotel, travel days, etc. and you come out with a profit of around $10,000-$11,000. If you have anymore questions I'd be happy to help as I tore a ligament in my knee so all I do is sit at the computer and draw up illusion plans and play with my cards and book shows. Josh London |
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TroyRoark Loyal user Springfield IL 282 Posts |
As for me, I send out between 300-500 postcards/flyers a month. I only want to be performing two days a week at this point so those numbers fill my needs.
I do put prices on my cards/flyers. But I'm booking mostly school and library shows. The way I see it; the easier it is for the person to book me, the more likely I will get the gig. So, if I can avoid the "how much do you charge?" phone call, that one link of the chain that I have removed. I've found that the trick to direct mail is to keep doing it. If you don't get a huge response on your first mailer, it's not because mailers don't work. It's more likely that your mailing piece could use some polish, or that you haven't been in front of their face enough for them to think of you first when it comes to hiring an entertainer. My mailers get incrementally more effective, because I regualrly send out to the same people over and over and over again. That's because I target my market, which is a different thread all together. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Josh I am confused. You go from 5 figure shows you fly out to meet with guys every couple months, to post card campaigns.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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joshlondon17 Special user San Diego, CA 685 Posts |
Troy, that's a great way to do that; put the fee right on there. That way they don't waste your time and theirs! I'm thinking of doing that with my new website that's being built right now. A lot of speakers do it, or at least have a fee range.
Danny, I know you don't mean the above comment as a "slam" or "jab" at me, I don't take offense to it. I know it sounds stupid and in some cases costly to do it the way I do. But, I must clarify what I do. I send out post cards first, then if I feel that they are willing and able to pay my fee amount, but need something extra and a DVD and promo package isn't doing it, I will jump on a plane and see them as humanly possible. No harm no foul buddy! Josh |
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David Tower Regular user David Tower 124 Posts |
Concerning the direct marketing to schools; who do you address the postcards/flyers to? Principal, councilor, school assembly coordinator, etc? My wife and I are both performers and so far we have 95 shows booked just for June and July. These shows are in a market we now have a handle on but we really struggle with schools. I have an antidrug, alcohol and safety show that has gained the highest praise from every school that I have performed at. Even businesses quite often are willing to sponsor the show but getting to the decision maker, at least here in the Midwest is a battle to say the least. It seems it is always someone different who is in charge of the assembly programs. Sometimes in the smaller schools it might be a teachers who is assigned the responsibility.
Thanks, David Tower
David Tower
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TroyRoark Loyal user Springfield IL 282 Posts |
I don't have a good reason for it, but I normally send it Attn: Principal.
At most schools, the secretary intercepts the mail, and distributes accordingly. If you're sending a postcard, it's easy enough to see what the card is concerning, and the secretary will very often get it to the right person...if not trashing it or filing it. I'm going to start a thread on the best theme for a school show. If you're in the school market, please contribute. David, the info might help you out. |
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HypnotizeAmerica Veteran user 399 Posts |
Great topic for sure!
I just got done with my marketing calender for schools next year and lets just say my girlfriend isn't too happy to see I'll be sending out 31 different postcards next year or roughly about 18,000 cards total to schools for various shows. To me I use the postcard as lead generation only. Give them a reason to call and get them on the phone and sell them that way. If I get too many calls or customers then I'll start qualifying them by putting a price on the card, etc. I have thought about doing sales letters but to be honest the flyer idea passed me by. I'd be more willing to do a larger postcard first but the flyer might also find its way into the rotation. And for schools I use simple black and white double sided postcards on colored card stock - nothing fancy. Congrats on the boost in return and keep us posted on the progress. |
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joshlondon17 Special user San Diego, CA 685 Posts |
I hope that you somehow numbered the postcards so when someone calls you know what postcard they got out of 31.
That's a very effective way to do it, but make sure you know what card they have. Josh London |
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HypnotizeAmerica Veteran user 399 Posts |
Josh -
I mispoke when I said 31 postcards. I am sending out about 5-6 postcards, just most of them multi times. For me there are 31 weeks I can mail to schools here in the states so that is what I am doing. You have to create the demand and by putting out a postcard a week to a targeted market I expect the book twice as much next year as this year. I figure with 18,000 postcards even at a 1% return is 180 phone calls, book 25% of that and that is 45 gigs. Really I'd be happy and profitable with a gig a postcard. Best of all it is all paid for in cash so that helps reduce the stress. I have thought about going with the oversized postcard but it raises my cost to about 50 cents a card from 30 and I don't know if the return would be worth it - time to test. The flyer would cost a little more a mailing but again something to test. BTW Josh I miss San Diego from living there 10 years ago but don't miss the prices. |
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joshlondon17 Special user San Diego, CA 685 Posts |
San Diego is really nice right now, about 80 and sunny!
Anyway, you might want to try an oversized card. It might give you a good return. When I mail for theater shows I use the over sized ones and it stands out among the other "free stuff" a person picks up in a coffee shop. Josh London |
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