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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts 
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On 2007-07-16 22:40, Neil Tobin wrote: I've asked this question before. What exactly are the benefits your club gets by affiliating with the IBM or SAM? Members get the Magazine and the Insurance but what does the club gain? Our club affiliated a few years ago with the IBM and became an official ring. Since that time I have noticed absolutely no change in the club at all. We never receive anything from the parent organization. Have never had a visit from a TVP or any other officer from the home office. We have the same number of lectures each year. Still put on our yearly show and have the Holiday party and summer picnic. The only change I've seen is that we now have to have all new members pay not only our meagre club dues, but also the IBM dues as well. From which we get absolutely nothing in return as a club. I even think club membership is declining because of the added expense of the IBM dues. So again, what exactly is the benefit of belonging to a national organization?
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Necromancer Inner circle Chicago 3076 Posts
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Hi Payne,
I think this is something of an artificial distinction. What does "good for the club" mean, when ultimately the club's goal is to provide benefit to the members? Insurance and the magazine, as you mentioned, are definite benefits affiliated club members receive. My own club (Chicago Assembly 3), has also hosted visits from national and regional officers through the years (most recently, from National President Andy Dallas just a few months ago), a fully-sponsored lecture, and screenings of rare magic performances courtesy of its national film library. Additionally, our identification with a national organization has helped the club secure prestigious partners for producing magic programming throughout the Chicago area (including, just a week ago, a public event at the hugely popular Navy Pier). I am sorry that your lBM ring didn't receive such support, and I hope it's not the norm. But as for my own SAM assembly, I can attest that its members -- individually and as a group -- enjoy a richer magical experience through the club's affiliation. Best, Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!), Cut & Color, Hands-Off Multiple ESP (HOME) System, Rider-Waite Readers book, Zoom Pendulum ebook ...
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts
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Well I'm glad it has worked out for your group. As I've said our club has received bupkis from the national organization and there are several members thinking that perhaps we should "unjoin" from the IBM since, at least for our group, there appears to be no benefit.
SAM doesn't appear to be any better out here than IBM for support from the national organization either. According the the SAM site there are two Assembelies in the area. One is completely dead as far as I know and the other is comprised of three or four guys who don't appear to want the club any larger than that. So I'll just stick to supporting my local club and not bother joining a big national orgainisation as I don't need or want the magazines.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Mark Wilden.jpg "View Profile") Veteran user San Francisco 375 Posts
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Payne, one benefit to belonging to a national organization is that new members will find you easier.
///ark |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts
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On 2007-07-17 12:08, Mark Wilden wrote: We didn't have a membership problem before and as I said earlier our numbers seem to have been going down since we affiliated ourselves with the IBM.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Patriot Regular user 112 Posts
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Another major benefit to belonging to an internationally recognized organization is the ready access to a fraternal network away from home. While living in Europe, all I had to do was show my IBM and SAM membership cards at any magic shop or to a European peer and I was usually given VIP treatment. One German shop owner invited me into his home for a delicious dinner. We spent a great evening discussing magic and he had his son spend the next day showing me their city.
Years ago, my SAM and IBM cards helped me meet a couple of top name performers backstage after their shows. I don't believe simply announcing, "I'm a magician, too...could I possibly meet the star?" would have had the same effect. While traveling with the American Circus or the NATO Showcases, I was always thrilled to have an audience member approach me in a new town and identify him (or her) self as an IBM or Magic Circle member. I always gave them the VIP tour of the show and the best seats I could muster. At the very least, we are recognized as serious practitioners of the art...which goes a long way towards opening the door to lasting friendships. That's worth a few hard-earned bucks a year. |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts
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On 2007-07-17 12:41, Patriot wrote: Again this is a personal benefit not a group benefit. I have no problem with those who wish to join a national or international magic organization but I for one have a problem sending money to a national organization if all I want to do is hang out with my local magic buddies once a month. About half our club has this same mindset as well sine they declined to join the IBM when it transitioned and several others only join when it's their turn to be officers and then let their memberships lapse after their service is over.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Patriot Regular user 112 Posts
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I agree with you that these are personal benefits, Payne. But, isn't that really the primary goal of joining any organization..."What's in it for me?" I see real personal value in my IBM and SAM memberships that reaches well beyond wall decorations and great mags.
On a group level, I suppose it's a matter of getting what you ask for. If you ask for nothing, you're sure to get it. Our Ring is currently in the midst of creating a new community outreach program. We've asked for and are receiving national assistance. It also seems to me that anything that benefits the individual member strengthens the group as a whole. The IBM and SAM both have scholarship programs, health and liability insurance programs, educational programs, artist-in-residence projects and more that benefit the individual members. Magicians who lost everything in Katrina and similar disasters found succor and rescue through both national groups. Members who have lost jobs or fallen seriously ill have found support through the two groups. Could a small, non affiliated group provide these levels of support? You're NOT wrong, Payne! I respect your choice. It's a personal choice based on individual expectations and objectives. If all you want or expect is a place to hang out and socialize once or twice a month with magic buds, save the fees. I like being part of a national organization that keeps it's nose out of the local chapter's business until it's asked to intercede...and then it comes in with flags waving! It's a personal thang.  Cheers, dude!
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Merlina Veteran user Maria Ibanez 367 Posts
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Hello Payne,
I would not presume to be able to speak on behalf of the IBM nor of the International President, Phil Wilmarth. I will however speak on behalf of the SAM and a program that was set up to assist both assemblies and their members. Under the administration of Past National President, Rich Dooley, a committee was set up "Assembly Visit Coordinating Committee". There are three members on that committee this year, Kurt Lohbek, Debbie Leifer and Tom Gentile. The purpose of this committee is to be in contact with all the assemblies, to keep as up to date as possible the information for same and to contact them on a regular basis to coordinate visits from representatives of the National Council. Last year, Andy Dallas and his wife Barbara toured countless hours and miles, not just overseas but also within the US visiting numerous assemblies, attending assembly annual banquets (my own included), installing officers for assemblies, presenting Presidential Citations, Certificates of Recognition, Presidential Awards and much more. They literally gave up a year of their lives and business on behalf of the SAM and the members to reach as many of the membership at large as possible. This year, Phil and I have vowed to do the same and to visit as many assemblies, conventions, banquets, etc. as we can and as we are invited to. We will even be visiting a few places together, starting with Midwest Magic Jubilee. Should you decide you want a visit or if you feel there's anything I can be of assistance with please do not hesitate to contact me: home 305-258-3414, cell 786-258-8762, skype: merlinamagic, merlina17@aol.com. Respectfully, Maria Ibanez National President Society of American Magicians |
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Mark Wilden Veteran user San Francisco 375 Posts
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On 2007-07-17 12:19, Payne wrote: Well, what I said about getting exposure through affiliation with SAM or IBM was true, but it's not the whole story. You're not suggesting that doing so is bad for membership, are you? ///ark |
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Mark Wilden Veteran user San Francisco 375 Posts
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In one of the magic magazines, where they say who's at the Magic Castle that month, it says that SAM and IBM members can get in to the Castle.
///ark |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts
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On 2007-07-17 23:40, Mark Wilden wrote: The affiliation probably hasn't been the reason for the decline in membership. all clubs ebb and peak. However the dues increase for new memberships has increased from the original 15 dollars a year to 15 dollars plus whatever an IBM membership is these days hasn't exactly helped either. I think the cost of the IBM membership is the reason that some of the original club members didin't join the IBM after the changeover.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Mark Wilden Veteran user San Francisco 375 Posts
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Ah, I hadn't thought of the dues issue. My local Assembly doesn't charge 'em, but then nothing really big ever happens there, either.
///ark |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts
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I belong to the SAM (34 years) The IBM (34 years) and the Magic Circle of London. I'm also a member of three local clubs. In our clubs you MUST be a member of whichever group they are afiliated with in order to be a member of the local club.
Andy Dallas visited us in February and performed at our annual banquet. He also appeared at the TAOM convention and performed there (labor day weekend 2006). Although we haven't often had visits from the IBM President, we do have visits from our territiorial representative and from other people besides our local club members. If your local Assembly or Ring is not being visited by people higher up in the administration from time to time, it might be because nobody has asked them. Sometimes that's all it takes.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Merlina Veteran user Maria Ibanez 367 Posts
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Greetings all, Mr. Palmer is very much correct in his posting. If any assembly wishes to have a visit from a representative of the National Council of the S.A.M., all they have to do is ask -- the people who head the Assembly Visit Coordination Commitee are: Tom Gentile (tdgmagic@charter.net), Kurt Lohbeck (magickl@aol.com) and Debbie Leifer (debbie@debbieleifer.com).
Early next week I will be leaving for Colon, MI to attend Abbotts Get Together, then it's back home for a couple of days and off to St. Louis, MO for the Midwest Magic Jubilee; back home for a bit before taking off for Texas and the TAOM then back home for a week and off to England for 2 weeks. This only brings us to the end of September. I will be happy to visit any assembly or group of members as long as they ask and we can schedule it it....if you prefer, you can contact me directly at merlina17@aol.com or just give me a phone number in an e-mail and I'll be happy to call you. Until next time, keep a dream in the making Maria Ibanez National President Society of American Magicians |
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Justin Style Inner circle 2010 Posts
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On 2007-07-16 15:03, Merlina wrote: First, Congratulations on your new position! Second, Thank you for personally reaching out to me. That really shows spirit and I appreciate it. I will take you up on your offer and when I am ready, I will be honored to have your endorsement. It really seems, to me anyway, that the SAM has more enthusiasm and warmth. Funny thing is, I just found an application – From 1990- It was endorsed by the Professor, Fred (TED) Collins, of Mecca Magic in NJ. Sadly both are no longer with us. |
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DaddyDoodle Loyal user Northern Hemisphere 277 Posts
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You all mentioned the lapel pin and the certificate - that is true of both groups, the IBM and SAM. Both give you a nifty lapel pin and both give you a certificate suitable for framing.
Tally-ho! And Tuscarora too!
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Necromancer Inner circle Chicago 3076 Posts
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Thanks for the clarification. I think we've covered more substantive areas as well.
Best, Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!), Cut & Color, Hands-Off Multiple ESP (HOME) System, Rider-Waite Readers book, Zoom Pendulum ebook ...
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TRUMPETMAN.jpg "View Profile") Special user Naples, FL 705 Posts
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I am actually lucky enough to live in an area where everybody seems to
get along ! Both the local SAM members and the local IBM members meet once a month under the heading of the Ft. Myers Magicians Association. Each of the organizations has a local head man, but we all meet in the same room, and have the same good time ! The benefits of receiveing both magazines are wonderful (I love to read), and both organizations have helped my son and I on our magical journey. If there is one thing that stands out between the two, it would have to be the youth groups. The SAM sponsors a group that allows members as young as 7 to join. I am an asst. leader for the local SYM chapter, and we have kids as young as 8 who do a great job of performing. The IBM has an age requirement that is higher, I think 11 (can't verify this, as there website is currently down for reconstruction). Mark Pettey Naples, FL
Mark Pettey
Naples, FL facebook.com/robbietheringmaster |
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DaddyDoodle Loyal user Northern Hemisphere 277 Posts
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Because members get a really cool and mysterious-looking fraternal lapel pen. Quote:
Thanks for the clarification. I think we've covered more substantive areas as well. Neil - while I agree that more substantive areas have, in fact, been covered, you were the one who first brought up the pins. So I would think that an answer to that assertion is in order, hence my response. Tally-ho! And Tuscarora too!
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Posted: Jul 17, 2007 05:48 am 
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