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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Books, Pamphlets & Lecture Notes » » Cloud Busting Secrets Book: A Brief Review (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jerome Finley
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Psy-Kosh and others,

I've said it before and will say it again here. If you (or anyone else) is not comfortable using my advanced techniques, stick with the basics as Devin has written them; there are two sections for a reason Smile . After all is said and done, mine is a very suggestive form of cloud busting.

Using these techniques will allow one to do most things from the book in a fraction of the normal time and to greater effect. It is ADVANCED work, and we've always said from the beginning that cloud busting is for the strong, competent performer.

While it is true that a background in NLP and hypnotic techniques might assist with the material in my section, it is not a requisite. There is more than enough material there for ANYBODY to begin using my work with devastating results.

Also, and this is not aimed at anyone in particular . . . I've got to express some concern about turning cloud busting into another magic trick. While others may have some great ideas, I see them going down a path that worries me. I've received PM's from people who want to incorporate sponge ball routines with cloud busting, as in transforming a cloud into a little white ball, etc.

I have released the material knowing that others will do with it as they will. At the same time, the focus here is on a major PK effect and demonstration, and not one to be taken lightly. This is absolutely serious work, and so when I read things like the Genii in the bottle idea, to be honest, it makes me cringe a bit.

Unless you are performing for children, nobody is going to believe that! It effectively reduces what I and Devin have worked so hard to share to a cheap magic trick. Please do not take this the wrong way! I just don't want to see "tricks" replace the hardcore PK demonstration that cloud busting is meant to be.

It's the same type of thing when I see "metal bending" routines wherein a drawing of a spoon bends . . . it is ridiculous to say the least. It makes no sense and takes one of the strongest PK demonstrations in mentalism down a path that leads nowhere and falls flat in the end. This must not be the case with cloud busting, or I will forever regret releasing this work.

I realize this may hurt some feelings, but cloud busting is a PK demonstration and best suited for the serious mentalist. That is not to say a magician cannot or should not perform it, just please, do not make it cheesy.

If anyone has questions or concerns, please PM me, as this thread is for reviews. I'm suddenly very upset at the direction this is heading. LESS IS MORE! Cloud busting is not a magic trick . . .

-Jerome.
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JustinCredible28
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I recieved mine on Monday Smile I am just now only re-reading part one again (haven't started part two yet). I love how this turned out, you guys Smile the cover is SUPER dreamy!!! Speaking of presentaional ideas, I was thinking about doing my busting while blowing a Dandelion away! Thanks again for making the book-of-the-century!(ies?)

Take care,

--Justin--
"a distorted reality is now a necessity to be free. . ." -- Elliott Smith

http://www.NWFortuneTeller.com
Blindside785
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I totally get what your saying. Anybody getting into cloudbusting should read that post from Jerome very carefully. Doing cloudbusting in my eyes anyway should be a feat, and not an easy one. Making it seem like a game just ruins the purpose.
Jerome Finley
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Thank you, Justin. Glad you are enjoying the work. Sympathetic magic is something that can be very strong.

Best,
J.
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Jay Are
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Quote:
On 2007-08-01 20:41, Psy-Kosh wrote:
Ooooh, story/presentation idea:

Look up... then... "HEY! Get back here!" Look around at spectators. "see that 'cloud' up there? That's actually a genie. He owes me some wishes and instead ran off and is trying to hide from me. Fortunately, I've finally got his bottle/lamp/milk carton rigged to, hopefully, pull him back in from a distance." Unstop bottle/lamp or whatever and aim it at cloud and, well, suck the cloud in, possibly with some theatrics, and having the specs help ancor you to the ground so that you won't be dragged off by the genie. Maybe have the bottle set up so that afterwards a little voice will be heard inside yelling "hey! let me out!" or the bottle rattling on its own, or something.


wow...

what a terribe idea...

let's not destroy this effect with an overly complicated presentation...

stick to the hippity hop rabbits if that's the path you want to take...
xxx
Vinnie Laraway
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...He's back! Smile

Can we PLEASE not start this again!? Smile

-Vinnie
Jay Are
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This is the equivalent of the negative judge on a reality show...

The second they make a critical statement of some one elses work -- they get boo'd.

I don't understand that mentality....

This is my opinion.

Am I not entitled to it?
xxx
Blindside785
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Hahah, Well he is on the right track...but the wrong direction. I'll support the thinking to the fullest but not that kind of effect.

Let us step back and remember what kind of emotion/effect this originally is supposed to take on to the spectators and the cloudbuster. Cloudbusting is a demonstration of mental power, when you take the cloudbusting into the story of a genii and that kind of theatrics it takes cloudbusting far from the pk demonstration it is meant to be to the realm of a magic trick.

Just so people are clear on the differences.
Jay Are
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My point is...

this stuff is not for everyone...

this kind of thinking is destructive...
xxx
Psy-Kosh
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Sorry, I was just more throwing out thoughts as they occured to me.

I see what you mean though, I think, about that last thing perhaps being a bit much. Sorry.
Jerome Finley
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No need for apologies . . . I and Devin have both heard far worse recently!

This is a serious piece of work and can really affect a person. I do not wish to see it taken lightly. I'm sure you can all understand this. As Devin and I both use cloud busting in our paid work, the effect needs to stay as pristine as possible.

Cloud busting is often reserved as that "special something", an effect that can transcend magic and trickery and allow a true experience of the mysterious. Let's keep it that way Smile

On with the reviews, please!

Best,
Jerome.
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Terry Holley
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Jerome:

I understand what you're saying about turning cloud busting into another magic trick - but I've also seen Kreskin use a Lota Bowl with great success in one of his "experiments." So the presentation has to be thought through carefully.

I think you'd agree that this material wasn't that readily available to most here on the Café prior to your and Devin's publication. Is that a good or bad thing? I believe that some would say "good" that it was hard to come by, and "bad" that it will now be so readily available. But whatever one's take is on the decision, metaphorically speaking the "Pandora's Box" is now open and who knows where it will all lead. So far it's led to coins, sponge balls, glasses, magic lamps....

Based on a person's preference, the effect could be used in various ways. My "cloud in glass" idea was akin to the claims of witches. As Wickipedia reports in an article about "Drawing Down the Moon":

"In classical times, ancient Thessalian witches were believed to control the moon, according to the tract: 'If I command the moon, it will come down; and if I wish to withhold the day, night will linger over my head; and again, if I wish to embark on the sea, I need no ship, and if I wish to fly through the air, I am free from my weight.'"

Add to that, "And if I wish to control the clouds, ...."

So an "experiment" such as I suggested (with restraint) could fit into a psychic demonstration or (with an emotional hook) a bizarrist presentation.

And although it appears that you will not agree, done tastefully for childen, I believe one could move cloud busting out of the realm of the "psychic" or "bizarre" (if neither are one's "bag") and into the world of "magical" wonder. I'm sure you realize how enamored children are with clouds.

Cloud busting can appear to be a great "supernatural" effect. If I remember correctly, one of the volumes of the Time-Life Books series, "Mysteries of the Unknown", has a photo and short description of the occurence. But remember that Sathya Sai Baba convinced thousands that he is a "god-man" through simple sleights and use of accomplices. So cloud busting is not an end-all to the quest that some may be looking for.

Now having said all that, will you still sign my copy of your book with "To Terry, my new best friend"?

:winker:

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
the levitator
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I'm a little confused here. In the book, a certain "trick" is mentioned that would work great with cloudbusting. I mention a plot line that is somewhat similar to the same "trick" mentioned in Cloud Busting, and I get lumped in with the Genie effect? (no disrespect to the Genie bottle idea, but I wasn't going for something whimsical). I'm only going on the assumption that the reference to using a coin was directed at me. I wasn't looking for a way to trivialize the effect of busting clouds. I was only trying to thing of other powerful presentational angles that might have a more bizarre twist, as I am a big fan of bizarre magic. When I was brainstorming ideas, I was thinking of something that would have a ritualistic feel. Using a Voodoo presentation is ok, but weaving a story around an ancient coin or medallion isn't? I meant no disservice to Devin or Jerome with my suggestion if it was taken that way, and I apologize if the idea of a bizarre presentation with an item that absorbs the cloud and manifests itself in that item is seen as nothing more as a trick.

I have no problem with a purely psychological presentation of mind power. I was just trying to help think of other presentations that might fit other performance styles. Sorry if I offended anyone. I was honestly trying to add positively to the discussion, but lately it seems like I can't say anything right here.
"It's all in your head...."



James Anthony
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Jerome Finley
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Terry,

Wonderful post. I agree, absolutely. Devin and I were speaking, and we both LOVE your idea with the glass. It's one of those things that can be very powerful, beautiful and elegant . . . it would be a wonderful presentation! That said, it reminds me of the verse (re: Drawing down the Moon);

"At will I make swift streams retire, to their fountains whilst their banks admire. Sea toss and smooth, CLEAR CLOUDS WITH CLOUDS DEFORM. With spells and charms, I break the Vipers jaw; cleave solid rocks and oaks from their mighty seizures draw. Whole woods remove (!), the lofty mountains shake, Earth for to groan, and ghosts from graves awake . . . and Upon Thee, O Moon, I draw!"

Thanks for sharing!

While definitely a more bizarre presentation, in this context, it would work magically. I agree with you; the Pandora's Box is open, and WE opened it Smile

At the same time, if all the related effects were given such attention to detail as yours; I would have far less a problem. The issue lies in turning cloud busting into a simple magic trick. Obviously, routines like "The Chalice of Clouds" (sounds like a good name!), would be far from the flippant pieces I am worried about. (It would be a fantastic piece of theatre and art!)

Best Smile
Jerome
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Jerome Finley
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Levitator,

Did I miss something? LOL! "The assumption that the reference to using a coin was directed at you?" I'm afraid you've lost me Smile I'm a big fan of bizarre magick as well, and whether it's Voodoo or PK matters little to me, as long as the integrity of cloud busting is maintained and the art not cheapened.

I'm not the cloud police Smile I would love to hear every idea you guys wish to share about presentation; my comments were directed at no person in particular. I've received a lot of PM's with great stories already; wonderful ideas and unique presentations.

400 people are holding Pandora's Box; it's a can of worms I helped open. Now that she's out there, this work can go a lot of ways. It is my sincere hope that cloud busting becomes to all of you what it has been for me. There is a small community now with some extremely good information. It will all go to hell if we treat it like just another magic trick. That's all I was saying Smile

Best,
J.
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the levitator
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Oops, sorry about that Jerome. I should have been more specific about the reference. The reference to coins was in Terry's post. Please know that I didn't feel attacked by Terry or anything, but I just didn't think my idea was the same as a genie bottle presentation or sponge balls. I might just be getting overly defensive, as I take what I choose to perform and how I perform it extremely seriously. I was making a decent living as a performer a few years ago before my mom got sick. When she died, it took me over a year to get back on the horse, and it's been tough kinda starting all over again. Especially since I decided to completely change my character and presentation. I went from bizarre/shock performer to more of a mentalist/reader performer. It's been an amazing experience, but it's also been really hard because I really want to be successful as a performer.

Thought to text translation sometimes loses a bit of the meaning. If I sounded mad in my post I didn't mean to. I was actually just bummed and felt bad because I might have stepped on some toes unintentionally. I've been working night and day lately because I have a major event coming up with a publicity stunt (blindfold drive on a human obstacle course), so maybe I shouldn't be brainstorming on the boards when I'm deprived of sleep. Smile

Anyways, I just wanted to clarify that I had no intention of presenting something like cloud busting as a trivial kind of trick. In fact, I wasn't really planning on using a bizarre presentation. But I like to have a bizarre version of everything I do because as a musician, I am around a lot of people who really get into metaphysical/superstitious things. When I perform for that crowd, they seem to get into bizarre effects more than the power of the mind approach. And I think there is a part of me that will always be drawn to bizarre magic.

Well, back to work! BTW, I am very excited about incorporating this into my presentational style. It's one of those things that I wouldn't do very often, but when the time was right, really boost the rep with something devastating! Thanks for sharing this work!
"It's all in your head...."



James Anthony
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Devin Knight
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Terry,
There is a section in book that deals exclusively with using clouds to create wonderment for children. I even explain how to get a small child to use his powers to vanish a cloud. Cloud effects for children can be a source of wonderment and the book details how to this.

I personally love the cloud winding up in the glass. This is logical and I'm aware the background you mentioned. Of all the ideas I've heard, yours is the best and one that fits in. It allows the expansion of the cloud effect without making it into some hokey trick. Other effects can be tied in with cloud busting and Jerome and I detail what can be done an yet keep this on a high level.

Devin
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2007-08-02 02:41, the levitator wrote:
Oops, sorry about that Jerome. I should have been more specific about the reference. The reference to coins was in Terry's post.


Hi James:

You were correct in thinking that my statement referred to your idea. But let's look again at what I wrote:

"But whatever one's take is on the decision, metaphorically speaking the 'Pandora's Box' is now open and who knows where it will all lead. So far it's led to coins, sponge balls, glasses, magic lamps...."

You'll notice that I also referred to my concept of a "cloud in glass" in my statement when I wrote "glasses" (although I surmise it could have been understood as "spectacles" rather than a "cup", therefore appearing to distance my idea from the others).

So I wasn't knocking any one's idea - it wasn't meant to be a pejorative statement. I was simply stating that people will use the idea for whatever effect they desire and who knows where that will lead. And I was including myself!

Devin and Jerome - thanks for the kind words.

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
the levitator
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I know Terry; that's why I wasn't upset by it. I guess in my mind I was trying to differentiate between serious and light-hearted presentations, not propped or propless presentations, and I was a little bummed that my idea seemed to be considered a less than serious approach to a presentation idea. I also really, really like the idea of the smoke in the glass too! I actually have that effect, although I haven't performed it for years. I used to use it in a bizarre effect with tarot cards and the spectator's "fate card" materialized in a glass, and the smoke was used as a special effect.

I'm sorry again for coming off so defensive, and I hope that nobody is upset with me. Smile
"It's all in your head...."



James Anthony
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Devin Knight
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James, your coin idea ties in with some of the ideas we've mentioned in the book. I like the coin idea you mentioned and it doesn't cheapen the work in my opinion.

Cloud busting is one of the few things you can do that appears to be real magic to the spectator. Done properly it appears you have real powers, although you don't make that claim. You just do it, and no other solution seems possible.

Either of us want to see Cloud busting reduced to a simple magic trick or a gag. In reading these post both Jerome and I realize that what Jeff says is very true. Most of you just don't get it. This is not meant to attack anyone. Sure you will learn how to make a cloud vanish, but most of you are not grasping the real psychological concepts behind this. You're failing to grasp this can make you a real miracle worker if done properly. This is not quick magic trick, but a serious presentation that can make a reputation for you as someone who has the power to control the elements.

It bothers me that so many people are reading part of the book and rushing out to show people they can bust a cloud, usually within hours of getting the book. This saddens me. Sure you might learn the basics in a few minutes, but as I said in the book, you need to spend a few days really watching the clouds.

There is no way, anyone can read this book in one day and go out and do a credible job of cloud busting. Jerome's section is designed to show you how to build this, to create the effect TWICE, once in the mind and then in reality.

These comments remind me of people who buy a trick and an hour later rush out and show it to their friends. The same people who have a dealer overnight a trick because they have a show the next day.

I don't have all the answers. Both Jerome and I are still learning. Each day we discover something new about cloud busting we didn't know before. That is why the book kept expanding. Each day we both get better at this. Neither of us are perfect cloud busters, we still have much to learn. This comes from experiences.

I'm all for new ideas and at least I'm glad to see many of you are thinking about ideas involving clouds. However lets try to keep this out of the range of another trick. Cloud Busting is a sacred art. Many people wished we had never revealed this to the masses. What's done is done. 400 people are privy to some inside secrets. Respect the work.

Devin
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