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Christopher Lyle
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Last evening at my restaurant, I had a unique situation occur. Part of me stands behind my actions, while part of me wishes I would have handled things differently. I guess I'm looking for justification from you guys and see how you would have handeled yourself in this situation or a similar situation.

Here's the deal...

There was a group at my restaurant last night that came there for a private party. I waited until they got settled and walked over to introduce myself as the house magician, asked how many were in their group, etc., etc., etc. I was looked at with complete surprise and shock. Why? Becuase they didn't know the restaurant had Magical Entertainment and they had hired another Magician to come and perform for them.

Hmmmm....Too many chefs in one kitchen....????

I was pro about it and said "no problem," that I'll make myself disappear as we were pretty busy and I had other tables to play. They felt bad but I told them not to worry about it...that it was no big deal...I gave them my card and told them to keep me in mind for other events and let them know when I was performing at the restaurant. Case closed...

So I go out to play the other tables. About a half hour later, the other Magician arrives. Never seen this person before (and I thought I new just about everyone out here). So this guys begins his act and I can quickly tell it's a bad rip off of The Amazing Johnathen's act...all the crudeness but nobody is laughing and I notice a few people get up to go sit in my section of the restaurant to be entertained by me.

I start playing the tables of the people who had left the party to sit where I would entertain them and I'm being told not only is the guy obnixious, but he's also trashing MY ACT. He's telling everyone that it's a good thing they hired him b/c I was a hack and not very good.

I blow it off, but the more tables I perform for from this party, the more I'm being told the same thing. Some of the tables I'm playing weren't from the party...just regular guests who have overheard this other magi.

So now I'm getting mad....but I try to be a pro...this guy will soon leave and the problem fixes itself.

I'm then told that the guy is trying to expose how I do "Card on Ceiling" b/c he's taking a ball and throwing them at my cards to try and knock them down to expose the effect. For me that was the last straw.

I left the dining room floor to find the manager of the restaurant who had no idea there was another Magician in the restaurant performing. I told him what was going on and he went over to the group, interupted the other Magician's Show, and told the guy to leave. There was drama for a few minutes between the Magician and the Manger...but he packed up his stuff and left.

I then spent the next 15 minutes entertaining this group before making it back out to the main dining room.

When I leave the restaurant, I have a voicemail waiting for me from this guy telling me that I'm a dead man and that I screwed with the wrong guy and that I was a complete hack and unprofessional...etc, etc., etc. and that he was going to make me his main project to make sure that he takes every gig away from me.

I'm not too worried about THAT happening...but my feeling now is...did I do the right thing or should I have just let the guy do his thing and leave.

Anyone have any similar problems? How would you have handled yourself in this situation? Just curious...
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
mrunge
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Well done Christopher. You handled yourself perfectly.

Not only did you walk away from one area of your own gig to let this guy perform, you took the high road, even when he was talking about you! What control you showed.

You did the RIGHT thing by letting the manager of the restaurant know what was going on once this guy crossed that line of trying to sabotage you further at your restaurant. You have to protect yourself. After all, you'll be back and he won't. I say "you the man!"

As for his threats, record them. You might need that later on. I don't think you have anything to worry about as most people will look at those who trash others in the hopes of making them look better as being childish and really immature. He'll self destruct on his own.

Good luck. Don't let this knucklehead get you down.

Mark. Smile
Alan Munro
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You handled it the right way. He was being a complete idiot and deserved to be removed from the restaurant.

If groups, that book a banquet there, aren't made aware of the fact that they have entertainment, then management isn't doing much more than showing up for work. They need to learn how to do their jobs.
JamesTong
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You did the right thing and you were also very professional about it.
Dannydoyle
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Well here is one problem and if you think of it YOU actually may have started the problem. Now there is NO excuse for the way the idiot acted and such, but think of this.

Read your intro to the story. You went to another party, handed them YOUR CARD, and told them to keep YOU IN MIND for other magical events. Sounds an awfull lot like a guy trying to snake a future gig from somebody.

If you had gone to one of my clients at a party, well then I would not have been happy. I never would act as this buffoon did, but I would NEVER consider doing what you did either.

See the party is a different universe when they rent the restaurant like that. It is not "your restaurant" anyhow, you simply work there. Understanding that will get you a long way. They had rented the space and are perfectly entitled to bring in another performer, unless the contract they sign says they have to see you.

It is the reason I STRESS relationships with the owner/manager. If you had an extreamly strong relationship with them, they would pitch you to EVERY private party they get.

That all being said, after it began to happen, you were 100% professional with the way in which you handled it if you ask me. You simply let the powers that be handle the situation in their restaurant. I simply stand behind that completly. The guests who wander out of the party, are now in "your universe" and are "guests of the restaurant". It is your job to entertain such people.

Now lets look at what this guy is thinking. You came in, handed a card to the group BEFORE he got there so he thinks you are trying to snake his party away from him. Then you send the manager over (after he was acting like the north end of a south bound horse mind you) and have him removed. I can understand him being unhappy.

Magicians need to know when is the RIGHT TIME to give out those stupid cards.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Ryan_B_Magic
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It sounds to me that you did everything good
Review King
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Quote:
On 2007-08-19 10:56, lylemagic wrote:

Anyone have any similar problems? How would you have handled yourself in this situation? Just curious...



If I had a nickel for every time this happened......

The best thing to do is to "pants" the offending magician and push a pie in his face, shoot seltzer down his pants and drag him by his feet to the street.

I know this sounds like a crude way of handling it, but you have to send a message that it's your turf. A good management team will recognize what your doing and the guests will just think it's part of act.

Rent 3 Stooges movies for ideas. Good luck!!!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
MagicSanta
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The handing them a card struck me the same way as it did Danny.

I had it happen once at a festival. I showed up and was told that the organizers wife had a friend whos son did magic and she hired him and the husband (organizer) neglected to tell me that he was a ball-less wuss and let her do it. I left but when the guy didn't show up and they called me about the next day I told 'em no thanks.
Magic_Steve
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Good Job on the way you handled the situation. Could have been worse, but wasn't. Also, I have to agree with Danny and Santa on this one. Why would you hand them one of your biz cards IF THEY ALREADY HIRED A MAGICIAN??

Sounds a lot like you trying to take one of his gigs away. I wouldn't have acted the way he did about it mind you, but I would have been ****ed, and definitely have talk with you afterwards. That's unprofessional right there.

Mistake made, leason learned. I think the guy acted far less professional than you. Props for that.

Best.
Steve
Noel M
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If giving your card was a mistake, was a tiny one. It was part of showing that your weren't trouble by their hiring someone else.

And since when is giving a card stealing a client? It's about the most innocuous advertising a person can do. Every other industry in the world tries to figure out how to get people to give up their present product or service for theirs. Why do magicians seem to exempt themselves? We've chosen to be ethical but advertising can be done in an ethical way. Giving them your card is not a problem for me.
MagicSanta
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Noel, a few days ago Lyle asked a question about magicians going into your restaurant and trying to obtain business from the existing magician. In a sense he did the same thing, he was saying "okay, you have this magician, but I think you should hire me after this time".
dimosa
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Quote:
On 2007-08-19 12:38, Dannydoyle wrote:
Well here is one problem and if you think of it YOU actually may have started the problem. Now there is NO excuse for the way the idiot acted and such, but think of this.

Read your intro to the story. You went to another party, handed them YOUR CARD, and told them to keep YOU IN MIND for other magical events. Sounds an awfull lot like a guy trying to snake a future gig from somebody.

If you had gone to one of my clients at a party, well then I would not have been happy. I never would act as this buffoon did, but I would NEVER consider doing what you did either.

See the party is a different universe when they rent the restaurant like that. It is not "your restaurant" anyhow, you simply work there. Understanding that will get you a long way. They had rented the space and are perfectly entitled to bring in another performer, unless the contract they sign says they have to see you.

It is the reason I STRESS relationships with the owner/manager. If you had an extreamly strong relationship with them, they would pitch you to EVERY private party they get.

That all being said, after it began to happen, you were 100% professional with the way in which you handled it if you ask me. You simply let the powers that be handle the situation in their restaurant. I simply stand behind that completly. The guests who wander out of the party, are now in "your universe" and are "guests of the restaurant". It is your job to entertain such people.

Now lets look at what this guy is thinking. You came in, handed a card to the group BEFORE he got there so he thinks you are trying to snake his party away from him. Then you send the manager over (after he was acting like the north end of a south bound horse mind you) and have him removed. I can understand him being unhappy.

Magicians need to know when is the RIGHT TIME to give out those stupid cards.


AGREE COMPLETELY!!!!!
Noel M
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I think most of us seem to agree that we shouldn't try to oust a working magician which is fine. I'm not suggesting a magician go in and say, "Fire him and hire me." But I think it's ok to send promotional material.

Owners will be exposed to other magicians in a variety of ways and we can't prevent that. For example, what if the owner is exposed to another magician by going to a party, and that person impresses him more that you do; I think he won't hesitate in replacing you.

What if the working magician got hit by a car, or becomes ill, or gets a better job, or his wife gets transferred to another city and moves? Wouldn't an owner want a quick replacement? I think if the chef or waiters left, the owner will have immediate replacements in mind. Why not for the magician too?
Dannydoyle
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Wow are you showing us about yourself.

I have news for you, it is why I keep stressing relationships with owners. Selling peace of mind and all that nonsense you are obviously not listening too.

Not one owner I have worked with would hire another magician under any circimstance except my leaving on my own.

Send promo material? Are you kidding.

I am with Santa, I am keeping a list. This is unbelievable.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Noel M
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Perhaps Danny you have proved that you are irreplaceable, but that may not be true of everyone. Perhaps I'm used to other business which were more competitive and advertising assaults were not uncommon, so I view this from another perspective.

I think you are absolutely right about relationship with owners. I think that's the only safety net a performer has. I think the same is true in other businesses, but if that relationship isn't secure you could have a problem. Usually business people receive job requests all the time and probably don't fire people they trust with new people. Why are magicians so afraid/offended by this.
Dannydoyle
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Magicians are not afraid, you just don't get it.

It is OFFENSIVE, and it makes us all look like used car salesmen. Simply put it is a scummy move. NOT COMPETITION.

Sending promo is one thing. To see a place already using a magician, and to try to move in, is scummy. Sorry. What happened to a "brotherhood"? A laughable concept.

Funny it is the guys like me who don't belong to any of the clubs who seem to feel it is more about this stuff. Pretty ironic if you ask me.

Along with scummy it is lazy.

Why not go in and ask the magician? Why not ask him to use you on nights he needs off as an alternate? Be upfront about it. Makes you look far more like a pro than these other moves.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Noel M
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I'm not a restaurant worker. I admire restaurant workers but I seem to always manage to step on toes. I can see talking to the magician first, but I also can see writing the owner, "I stopped by you restaurant last night and saw Mysto who is a great guy and terrific performer. I'm a magician also and should you need a fill in or perhaps know someone who may be looking for a magician, please give me a call.

I don't expect agreement, but remember I never advocated replacing someone who's working.
[quote]On 2007-08-19 16:01, Noel M wrote:
I think most of us seem to agree that we shouldn't try to oust a working magician which is fine. I'm not suggesting a magician go in and say, "Fire him and hire me."
Dannydoyle
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Well the phrase, "I am not a restaurant worker" pretty well sums it up.

Can't you see how the phrase, "If you know someone who is looking for a magician" is harmfull? Oh lord if they KNEW someone who needed a magician, don't you think they would recomend the original guy? You seriously don't see a problem here?

We used to get things like this constantly at the restaurants and laugh about it. It really makes the guy who is soliciting look like a hack in the end. THAT is as good a reason as any not to do it if you ask me.

Maybe if your income level depended on restaurant work, you would have a different perspective. At least I hope so.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Rimbaud
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Years ago I became very unhappy with my insurance agent and decided I had to replace him. I was very happy with the insurance COMPANY, but not the agent.

So I called another agent with the same insurance company and explained my position.

She REFUSED categorically to become my insurance agent. She said that it was considered extremely unethical to poach another agent's clients--that doing so would cast great discredit on her personal ethics.

It was only after I sent a written statement to the company headquarters explaining my beef with Agent A, and assuring them that I would drop their coverage altogether rather than do business with him, that Agent B reluctantly accepted my business.

It is a very sad thing to think that there are magicians who don't have the same sense of ethics as INSURANCE AGENTS.
http://www.DanLaddthehypnotist.com
"Saying 'Everyone is special' is just another way of saying 'No one is.'" --Dash from The Incredibles
MagicSanta
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Noel, are you in sales by chance? Yours is similar to the attitude a lot of the sales guys have in Silicon Valley and the general region, even Mill Valley. They will often call on a company who already have suppliers and say "Hey, I'm here if you need a new source or if your supplier can't come through for you", heard it every day for over 20 years there. With magicians working restaurants it isn't the same as having a pool of 20,000 potential clients, often the magician did all the leg work and put in all the effort just to get a magician hired and he doesn't need to be bushwacked.
Dannydoyle
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I wish I could have expressed it so well.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Noel M
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Just before I climb back under my rock I'd like to mention that in my last post I assumed that the owner wanted to keep who he had that's why the request to pass his name along would make sense.

I see that my business experience doesn't match that of restaurant magicians so I promise to not open my mouth about things of which I know little.
Dannydoyle
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Not a bad policy in general LOL.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
MagicSanta
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It isn't that it doesn't 'match', it is just different.
Christopher Lyle
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Boy...did this thing snowball into the land of "off the point."

Let us get back on track...

I had a conversation with the owner of the restaurant today to explain the events that took place. Understand, that I "DO" have a great relationship with him and since I've been performing in his restaurant now for just over 3 years, we've become good friends. So I feel I can speak candidly to him about most anything.

We both agree that the ball was dropped on the RESTAURANTS side of the equation. Every single group that is booked at the restaurant is supposed to be told at the time of booking that they provide entertainment by Magician Christopher Lyle. That obviously wasn't the case this time as this one slipped thru the cracks. Turned out, the party was booked several months ago by someone who got fired for not doing her job up to par...big shocker there!!! The owner thinks that I handled the situation like a pro and he thanked me for that. If he's happy...then I guess I should be too...but I'm just a bit uneasy about the whole thing still.

To explain...when I found out that the group had hired entertainment, I gave the hostess of the group my card like I give everyone my card who comes into the restaurant. I didn't leave her a stack or try to pass them out. I just simply gave her my card which I noticed she put into her purse. I was not trying to steal this guys thunder. I was simply trying to let her know that I was the house Magician at the restaurant and she could go onto my website (which is on my card) to see when I was performing at the restaurant so the next time they booked a group, they wouldn't have to hire anyone if they were having their event at the restaurant.

When this guy showed up, he never knew that I gave my card to this women.
It was I who began the thread just a few days ago of NOT DOING THAT!!!!

So I hope that clears it up. As I said when I started the OTHER THREAD, I would never do anything to take someone's gig from them. That's in poor taste and I hate people who do that thinking that it's "competing" for business.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this...having read everyone's posts, I do feel much better about the situation. Thanks for the pick me up! = )
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
Dannydoyle
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Wheather he knew or not how could you know that? It is possible, heck probable while you were at a table working she told him. Heck if I was the hostess I would have.

Even with you explaining it, the move is out of line and I find it hard to believe you can't see that.

How would you feel if a long time client of yours had a party at a place and the guy came and did that? Be a bit different I would imagine.

See you WERE trying to take a client from him. You just admitted as much to us in your explination.

" I was simply trying to let her know that I was the house Magician at the restaurant and she could go onto my website (which is on my card) to see when I was performing at the restaurant so the next time they booked a group, they wouldn't have to hire anyone if they were having their event at the restaurant."

You were telling her NOT TO HIRE ANOTHER MAGICIAN. Wow how more clear does this need to be? You were doing exactly what you said NOT to do on the other thread.

Sorry but that is how it works.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Magic_Steve
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After hearing his POV, I'm going to say givng her the card was not out of hand. In that situation, I would have done the same thing. Just kind of letting them know that entertainment is provided by the restaurant, thus saving them a few bucks.

I have to dissagree with Danny on this one. Smile

Best.
Steve
Bad to the Balloon
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Hmm the guy was an @ss either way.

Maybe he knew maybe he didn't .... Were you a little out of line. Mmmm yeah. If she asked for the card no.

Have I been a jerk to another performer from their perspective .... could be?

Scenario : Met the manager of an Outback Steakhouse at a school event. She saw all the wonderful balloons I do and asked if I could come to her restaurant to work. Went down cut the deal and as I am leaving she says:
"well I am going to ask the magician that comes in to move from Friday nites to Saturday nites."

Whoa! you have a magician already?

"Yeah he comes in on Fridays and well he drinks quite a bit and we really don't pay him .... I would much rather have you"

Please call him and let me know what happens.

Well that week came and went and I was asked to come in. Seems the magician flew into a rage with the manager, cursing and yelling. To say the least the big guy in the kitchen escorted him out.

Now did I create the situation? No not really. Did it happen. Yep Why?

Well for one the guy had no signage of his presents.

He had not cemented his relations with his manager.

He did not play well with other. Servers and customer alike tell me horror stories of this scary guy.
Mark Byrne
AKA Mark the Balloon Guy
As seen on the TODAY SHOW
www.balloonguy.net
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MagicSanta
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Lyle, I love ya like a brother, but she knew you were the house magician. Everyone at the table knew, in fact, every individual in that restaurant knew you were the house magician....wanna know how I know this? The following from you sir:

quote:
Let me set the scene for you. In any restaurant that I play, it's very obvious when you first walk in that I'm performing there. I have several 24 x 36 posters somewhere at the front entrance showcasing my act and the times that I play. It's IMPOSSIBLE not to see that upon entering. There are also table signs/tents that advertise my presence at the restaurant.


See that? Everyone knows!!!
I'm glad the guy didn't know she got your card or he'd really go out of his mind. Hang in there and don't worry about it. But they knew.....
Christopher Lyle
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Danny,

I will play devils advocate for a moment. If I gave her my business card with the thought that I was TRYING to steal this guys gig or any future business...then I would agree with your point of view.

However...that was not my intent. My card was given out very non-chalontly and innocently. I see your point...however, I just don't agree...so we'll agree to disagree on this one.

The bottom line is, the guy was a complete #^$@*! and no matter WHAT took place, what he did was completely uncalled for...that we do agree on.
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
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