Welcome Andrew, So I was wondering how you go about creating your effects. Do you come up with and idea in your head and just try and work it out or does it happen accidently?

Michael

The best way is to think of something that would be cool if it happened. I like to think of a cool visual and then try to imagine how it could be done. I like to play with different objects and go, "Wouldn't it be weird if..."

As magicians we worry to much about method and tend to work in the wrong direction. A new trick base or double-lift isn't as nearly interesting to your audience as it is to us.

I also have friends that know I do magic and sometimes they will ask me to do some crazy trick that they think would be cool and I kind of laugh it off saying who do you think I am a superhero. But I keep that idea in my head and try to figure it out because a lot of times as magicians we tend to overthink things because we see amazing new tricks everyday but spectators keep it simple which is how we should go into our creating every time

You're absolutely right Jordan. It's interesting to see what non-magicians expect something magical to be. Sometimes disturbing too...

We magicians often overlook some of the most simple possibilities.

Hello Andrew,

Welcome here at The Magic Café. We look forward to your spending the week with us and enjoying the magic.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

I think Andrew touched on something so important here about creativity. I think there are 2 points of interest that are worth discussing. 1) magicians tend to fall in love with ourselves. We are so amazed by the technique and skill and moves that are required for an effect that we often forget how it comes across to the audience. and 2) When trying to be creative, we get so hung up on the method that it prevents us from thinking outside of the box. If we have no idea how something could be done, we forget about that creative idea and move on. This can be a dangerous thing because we should never allow method to stop us from exploring a creative solution. There is always a way to make something work.

I think Jordan also brought up an interesting point. Perhaps we as magicians overlook the obvious. Maybe we get so hung up on one way of thinking that we often times walk through life wearing blinders. This prevents us from seeing anything that exists outside of magic.

This is why layman think of magic differently. They are not living in the magic world 24/7 like so many of us do. I think as a magician we start to think inwardly and forget how to look outward. In other words many of us look towards magic for magical ideas instead of putting away the magic DVds or videos or books and looking away from magic for creative ideas.

Andrew: I wanted to ask you personally if you feel or see yourself looking more away from magic for creative concepts and sparks of creative ideas? It almost seems like your thoughts and ideas are sparked not by magic itself and I think that is so refreshing.

Kyle

"I wanted to ask you personally if you feel or see yourself looking more away from magic for creative concepts and sparks of creative ideas? It almost seems like your thoughts and ideas are sparked not by magic itself and I think that is so refreshing."

Absolutely. All of the other creative fields; art, film, video games, TV, comics, literature will be collectively bigger than all that is magic. It's helpful to see how other people imagine what's wonderous or amazing. I particularly like to see how other creative people, especially writers, imagine a really good magic act should look. A great example of this is Clive Barker's story "The Last Illusion". His vision of a magician is hard to realize but interesting.

Wonderful stuff Andrew and I thank you so much for your time. It is greatly appreciated. I think so many of us get stuck looking at our magic dvds and books and videos whenever we get faced with a creativity challenge. Instead of coming up with fresh and new ideas, we get trapped making clones of what has already been done before. Even if we may not be intentially tyring to do it.

Let me ask you a simple question which I think I already know your answer to. However, I think it is important for others to hear your answer and how you explain it.

Would you say that a magician's impression of what is creative in magic is much different then a laypersons view of what is creative in magic? If so, then what do you think the differences are and how can a magician learn to think in more creative terms?

PS: Would you know of anyone who has actually done a study or research on the way other creative fields view what a magician is? You mentioned Clive Barker and I am glad you did as I have also read a bit on that as well. Are there any others? It would fascinate me if there was ever a real study done about how lay people or other creative fields view magic in general. I think it would open a lot of eyes.

Kyle

"Would you say that a magician's impression of what is creative in magic is much different then a laypersons view of what is creative in magic? "

Absolutely. Audiences care more about presentation than method or effect. Siegfried and Roy, Copperfield and Doug Henning all started doing the same kinds of magic. It was who they were that made the difference.

"Would you know of anyone who has actually done a study or research on the way other creative fields view what a magician is?"

Not that I know of. Other than just a general survey of literature.

"It would fascinate me if there was ever a real study done about how lay people or other creative fields view magic in general. I think it would open a lot of eyes."

It's interesting to look at the creative people who started out as young magicians and how they evolved into other fields: J.J. Abrams, Peter Jackson, Ray Bradbury, Sam Raimi, Richard Garriot, etc.

Thanks Andrew for taking the time out of your schedule to really answer all of my questions. I do appreciate it.

Would you agree then that in essence the concept of the trick making the magician is a false one? It should be the other way around. It is the magician who makes the trick what it is and changes the trick into a routine that entertains.

Thank you also for your list of people to study who started out as magicians or who did magic and ventured into other filds. I think any of us could look at these sources you listed and gain a lot of insite from them. Would you have any others to add to this list? Perhaps not just writers but artist etc?

If you could tell magicians one pitfall that we all do that prevents us from being more creative, what would you say that one thing is? Just curious as to your answer. Thanks again.

Kyle

"Would you agree then that in essence the concept of the trick making the magician is a false one?"

The funny thing about magic is that our audiences rarely know if a tricked fooled them because of the method or the magician. The magician can make the difference in how well they were entertained though.

"Would you have any others to add to this list? Perhaps not just writers but artist etc?"

As an artist I really find Matthew Barney interesting. To anybody not familiar with him, you can find his stuff on the web. He can do weird, wonderful and repulsive all in the span of ten minutes. As magicians we could learn a lot from people like him. We don't have to like it (he's certainly controversial in the art world) but he's very interesting and very driven.

On the pop art side I like Alex Ross. He does the photorealistic covers for a lot of graphic novels. What I like about Ross' work is that he makes super heroes like Batman and Superman appear as if they were real people. The power of his work just isn't that it looks real - his heroes look like real people because he gives them details like wrinkles, costumes that hang realistically and other details. This is important to me as magician because we need to balance our supernatural persona with elements of humanity (and weakness to a degree).

My favorite performer of all time is Steve Martin. He's one of the most intelligent people in show business, an extremely well-read person, yet made his name via a persona that was naive and somewhat dim. However, he never felt patronizing or like a "character". It's interesting to listen to the evolution of him on his comedy albums as he became more and more adept at slipping from one part of the brain to another.


"If you could tell magicians one pitfall that we all do that prevents us from being more creative, what would you say that one thing is?"

We ignore all the opportunities we have to be creative. From what we say to the props we hold, we have more choice than any other entertainer has to express ourselves. From close-up to stage, we can even choose our audiences. David Blaine doing classic close-up for a few random people on the street for television was a brilliant creative choice. The environment alone affected how it was perceived.

Thank you Andrew. Great stuff and very interesting discussion for sure. I thank you for that.

As an artist myself, I really appreciated your list of artist that you admire and the reasoning behind that admiration. I find myself as an artist taking what I know and put into my art and carry that over into how I work my magic. It really makes me think about my magic in a different way then most I think.

Do you have any other hobbies or interest that you can share with us that you know has influenced your magic other then magic itself? I think many magicians forget that we can and should carry over ideas from other things we like and place them into our magic to make our magic stronger. Would you agree?

What is also interesting to note in your artistic examples is the fact that each of these artist you admire are vastly different in style and in what they do and how they do their art. They are not the same person and do not do the same thing or convey the same thoughts.

The reason this fascinates me is because artists seem to understand that as an artist we need to find our own sense of style and our own "inner voice". It is what makes us unique as an artist. However it seems that when we look at magic and magicians, we lose this idea all together. It is as if being unique and having our own style and voice was lost years ago and we are still striving to find it and teach it to people.

What are some very easy ways ot techniques you feel personally magicians could do right now to start helping them conquer this and to start learning to be more creative? I am a true believer that every one of us has the power to be creative as we want to be. We just need to relearn what we already knew as a child.

Thank you in advance Andrew for your time this week. This thought process and discussion fascinates me and to be able to discuss it with someone as creative as yourself is helping me to really learn also. I hope that through our discussion and through others chiming in, people can open their eyes to the power of creative thought.

Kyle

"Do you have any other hobbies or interest that you can share with us that you know has influenced your magic other then magic itself?"

I am really into science. I subscribe to about four different science magazines and journals. I listen the weekly Nature magazine podcast, the Scientific American podcast and subscribe to about a dozen science related RSS feeds. I also have a lot of friends who are scientists in every field from genetics to physics.

Listening to them talk about science gives you an idea of what really is mysterious and wonderful. These are people who are trained observers and don't believe in nonsense mystical notions. However, any one of you could floor them with a simple Ambitious Card routine. And they'd love it.

My experience in performing for people like that has made me less cynical about magic in general. If super-smart people can get excited over a simple card trick, then there's probably nothing wrong with card tricks (in small doses).



"What are some very easy ways ot techniques you feel personally magicians could do right now to start helping them conquer this and to start learning to be more creative?"

One of the reasons I love film is seeing how a good director or screenwriter communicates what they need to get across. As magicians we can learn from this and see how many opportunities there are for getting our point across.

My favorite example of subtle character definition is in Sidney Lumet's film "The Verdict" (screenplay by David Mamet). In the opening scene we're introduced to Paul Newman's character. It's the middle of the day, he's at a bar drinking a beer, wearing a rumpled business suit while playing pinball. Already he has a huge amount of dimension to him. We're asking questions about how his life fell apart before a single word is uttered.

A good way for a magician to find out how they can use creativity to better connect with their audience is study how other magicians handle similar problems. Take a random trick for example like the Chop Cup. Ask yourself how Penn & Teller would perform it? Copperfield? Blaine? Doug Henning? Amazing Jonathon? Cyril? You should come up with at least six different answers. They'd all do it differently. Then ask yourself how *you* would perform it. If your answer is too much like on of theirs, it's time to go back and figure out who you are.

Who are you? I always hated this question in magic. We're a lot of things. Here's a hint: The answer as it pertains to being a performer is this: What about you do your friends like the most? What makes you interesting to them as opposed to somebody else? Chances are your audience will feel the same way.

If anybody is interested, I have a free PDF on my creative process here: http://itricks.com/magiczine/archives/464