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Joey Stalin
Inner circle
Canada
1048 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 8:32am
A very funny video of Jeff Dunham, my favorite ventriloquist, you may have seen him and Walter the surly old man, or Peanut whatever Peanut is, but here he is with Achmed The Dead Terrorist. I loved it lol.
-A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.
-It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
-The secret impresses no one. The trick you use it for is everything.
See you space cowboy...
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Timothy Drake
Inner circle
2101 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 11:38am
Contrary to what appears to be popular opinion I find this video offensive to both Muslims and Jews. If this character were done with any other ethnic culture it'd be chastised but these days it seems to be Ok to bash Muslims.
Jeff is mega talented. I love all his other work. This is bad taste however.
Best,
Tim
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Dannydoyle
Eternal Order
10589 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 11:52am
I thought it a bit odd.
It is a way for a caucasion man to tell racist jokes and get away with it.
That is creative to say the least, but it is quite offensive if you extrapolate it.
I think Comedy Central didn't care as they WANTED controversy, but didn't really get much.
Interesting how it is ok to make fun of those you hate. THAT is ok.
Danny Doyle
Semper Occultus
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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Big Jeff
Loyal user
288 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 11:56am
Tim,
MAYBE not all muslims are terrorists, but ALL THE TERORISTS that attacked the US are MUSLIMS.
How come muslims are protected from parody and critizm but christians aren't?
I KNOW, Christians don't have riots and burn cars and kill people when Jesus or the church is made fun of like the "peace loving" muslims do.
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Jerrine
Special user
Busking is work.
629 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 12:04pm
...and we're off!
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Timothy Drake
Inner circle
2101 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 12:26pm
Quote:
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On 2007-10-28 12:04, Jerrine wrote:
...and we're off!
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Thanks Jerrine,
You made my point. The topic is so controversial it will create a thread that will get out of control and deleted.
Now on to this topic...
Firstly Jeff.. You are wrong. Not all terrorists are Muslim. I don't think Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were Muslim. I don't think the Unibomber was a Muslim either.
Lets stick with that theme however for a moment. Japan attacked that US once. Does that make it ok to do a stereotype of Japanese with buck teeth and slanty eyes? I think not. It was considered ok once but time has passed and we now all admit it was as wrong then as it is now. The same goes for this.
I never said Muslims should be protected from parody. Stereotypes like this is not parody though.
I think it best to leave rioting out of it as all religions and races have members who are guilty of such bad behavior. Saying rioting is a Muslim thing is also racist.
Best,
Tim
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Dannydoyle
Eternal Order
10589 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 12:29pm
Ask the English how many of the IRA are Muslim.
Ask the Spanish how many of the Basque Separatists are Muslim. (I may have spelled Basque wrong)
To say all terrorists are Muslim is just goofy. To say all of of whom did 9/11 are Muslim may be close.
Like Tim said lets not spin out of control.
Danny Doyle
Semper Occultus
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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Timothy Drake
Inner circle
2101 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 12:39pm
Good Point Danny,
Before Jeff comes back with.." But those terrorists didn't attact the US" Let me add this quote from a Terrorist who battled the US.
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922
So Jeff.. does this mean all Christians can also be called Terrorists because the US's biggest Terrorist was a Christian??? That would be wrong and hateful just like this routine is.
I'm a Christian and that would insult me. I don't need to be a Christian to know that racial stereotyping is wrong regardless of who its directed towards.
Best,
Tim
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Doug Higley
Inner circle
Gepetto 2
6221 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 12:45pm
Tim, I'm sure it was an oversight that Muslims and Jews are mentioned but not the Catholics who's Priests are defined as pedophiles.
Thought the bit was a tad long and lethargic, compared to the comedy I grew up with from Don Rickles and others, pretty tame in the offensive dept...but since the game has become so 'sensitive', an OLD Catskills joke about two pennies becomes hard core racism fodder.
Jeff is creatrive though and a terrific vent...thanks for the link Joey.
Note: My post was before all these others making me look stupid. That's ok. I don't care. I'm not of any racial profile whatsoever.  I just hit the button slow.
Museum: Mysteria & other Higley Books! Too Cool!
Sideshow Gaffs
The Heads! NEW!
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Timothy Drake
Inner circle
2101 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 12:51pm
Quote:
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On 2007-10-28 12:45, Doug Higley wrote:
Tim, I'm sure it was an oversight that Muslims and Jews are mentioned but not the Catholics who's Priests are defined as pedophiles.
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Hi Doug,
Thanks for reminding me. That's 3 groups insulted in the routine not 2.
Best,
Tim
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Doug Higley
Inner circle
Gepetto 2
6221 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 1:22pm
Vent/Puppeteer: Higley
Figure: Larry (Blond College Professor look with big glasses)
H: So Larry...I don't get it. You are a terrorist?
L: That's me. Ba Boom! Blow your butt up in a flat second.
H: But...you don't look Muslim...
L: I'm not you moron...I'm a plumber! Who writes your freakin' profiles? G Gordon Liddy?
H: You don't look like a Plumber...
L: Good grief...my butt crack normally gives it away...but wait...that annoying wedgy (looks around behind him) is your arm aint it...never mind.
H: But...
L: Exactly. So by your standards you can profile a terrorist by looking for the butt crack and snagging a Plumber...unless he has you for a wedgy...
H: Are you saying all Plumbers are terrorists?
L: Not all Plumbers are terrorists genius...and not all terrorists are Plumbers. (aside) So nobody should be offended by this bit depending on which they identify with...
H: I don't get it...
L: Your not supposed to...just when you think you have...BA BOOM!
H: What exactly is it you do?
L: Shmuck...I blow **** up...
H: Your a suicide bomber?
L: Good grief...do I look like I blew myself up? That's another guys act...
H: So I repeat what is it you do...
L: I told you...I blow **** up! Ba Boom!
I didn't say I was a good Plumber!
(for Tim and Danny)
Museum: Mysteria & other Higley Books! Too Cool!
Sideshow Gaffs
The Heads! NEW!
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
4777 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 1:36pm
Big Jeff was clearly refering to the 911 attacks that were carried out by Muslims, endorsed by Muslims, and pretty much not called down by 'em. He never mentioned the Unibomber, who wasn't considered a terrorist nor was he attacking the "US" as an enity. McVie would be considered one perhaps but I don't recall if he has a broader scheme in mind other than the single bombing, which may or may not have been considered a terrorist act.
Someone brought up the priest that molested children. I don't recall any rallys anywhere in the world with thousands not only defending but advocating said molestations. I don't believe that a large percentage of Catholics believe their doctrine is calling out for them to molest children in order to obtain a higher level in heaven. Neither have I heard of a Bishop or anyone demanding the death of a cartoonist for making fun of priests or the pope. Also I do not believe the IRA has ever operated in the U.S. nor against the U.S., I could be wrong but I don't think so.
Simple fact is the individuals around most of the major conflicts in the world are Muslims. The most aggressive terror organizations operating today are Muslims and base their existance on their religion. Those are facts and while I would say that the vast majority of Muslims just want to do their thing and not bother anyone there is still a very large number that at minimum support the activities of their vicious and vile bretheren.
I shall now go and watch the puppet.
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Timothy Drake
Inner circle
2101 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 1:47pm
Magic Santa,
All this comment before you watched the video??? LOL
Actually Jeff never mentioned 911. He in fact said " All the terrorists who attacked the US."
Unibomber not ever considered a terrorist??? How bout this.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unibomber
Japan certainly attacked the US and there were MANY rallies in Japan supporting it. Can you answer my earlier question? Are Japanese stereotypes OK as well based on this same line of reasoning?
Best,
Tim
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Doug Higley
Inner circle
Gepetto 2
6221 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 1:54pm
I know there is a sensitivity that may or may not be valid...we can call Swedish people Swedes and Polish people Pols and the British, Brits...but we can't call Japanese people Japs any more.
Museum: Mysteria & other Higley Books! Too Cool!
Sideshow Gaffs
The Heads! NEW!
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Timothy Drake
Inner circle
2101 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 2:03pm
BINGO! That word was used so much as slander that it became slander. Each time it's said we are reminded of the sins of the past so its not used any more.
Best,
Tim
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
4777 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 2:04pm
During World War 2 they DID go after the Japanese in cartons (see Bugs Bunny and Popeye) as well as the Germans and Italians. This is because they were the 'enemy' and in order to effectively go against an enemy you want to distinquish them so it is easier for Americans to fight them, Americans being kind and loving people for the most part (compared to societies that are of a more militarilistic or vicious nature). In the case of Japan they had a military based society at that point in time and it cost them dearly yet also gave the foundation to build upon and develope into an economic and manufacturing powerhouse. It should be noted that while the heavy bombing of Japanese cities was going on American pilots questioned the bombing of civilians, again because it goes against our nature. The response from the high command was that as a militarilistic society that ALL of Japan and ALL of the populace was viewed as a military target. The nation of Japan and its people were joked about, made into stereotypes, and it was justified because in war you go after the enemy and that is who they were. Before you jump on the act of locking up the Japanese Americans during WW2 (as well as Germans in some cases) I feel it was completely out of line but the motivation behind it was understandable....not the act. I lived in an area on the West Coast with a very large population of Japanese Americans and I have always viewed them to be no different than any other Americans and don't want anyone of Japanese ancenstory to think it was me that brought up Japan it was the other fellow.
My statements had nothing to do with the vent act but that is just a puppet, it was in response to your seeming claim that Muslims are just poor innocent folk that are getting attacked for no reason. El Grande Jeff mentioned terrorist that attacked the US specifically, that would indicate an attack originating outside of the US. Please, in your wisdom and knowledge of such things, provide a list of terrorist organizations that have attacked the U.S. that originated outside the U.S. that are not based on the Muslim religion. I'm sure you have them listed or can find them all over the net. I'll give you a hint if you want to go back a number of years, the Puerto Rican independance guys, then again, Puerto Rico is technically part of the US. I eagerly await you justifying your statement against Jeff.
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
4777 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 2:06pm
Whoa...'sins of the past', are you saying the US sinned in fighting Japan?
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Timothy Drake
Inner circle
2101 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 2:16pm
Quote:
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On 2007-10-28 14:06, MagicSanta wrote:
Whoa...'sins of the past', are you saying the US sinned in fighting Japan?
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No..but does " internment camp" mean anything? However I was referring to the stereotyping during the day. It was not fair then to the people of Japan or to the Japanese Americans who had to endure it. War is no excuse.
Back to the muslim thing. It doesn't matter that the terrorist groups outside the us are all muslims. Not all Muslims are terrorists and that's what matters.
Not all men are women abusers but women abusers are men. Have you ever been treated like crap because you are a man? I have. Its not fun. Tried to make a donation to a womens shelter and couldn't get past the man hating receptionist behind the bullet proof glass at the reception counter.
Best,
Tim
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Pete Legend
Special user
Ireland
901 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 2:16pm
Lol I just thought it was'nt funny.
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Timothy Drake
Inner circle
2101 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 2:29pm
Quote:
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On 2007-10-28 14:04, MagicSanta wrote:
Before you jump on the act of locking up the Japanese Americans during WW2 (as well as Germans in some cases) I feel it was completely out of line but the motivation behind it was understandable....not the act. I lived in an area on the West Coast with a very large population of Japanese Americans and I have always viewed them to be no different than any other Americans and don't want anyone of Japanese ancenstory to think it was me that brought up Japan it was the other fellow.
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Sorry Magic Santa,
I missed this before I posted about internment camps. You logic is conflicting. You agree that judging an entire race by the acts of others in their race is wrong but ALSO think its OK to do the same to an entire religion based on the acts of others in their religion?????
Yes.. it was me that brought up the Japanese. ANY Japanese person who was in anyway connected to that racist segregation will be thankful to me for not letting it happen again without protest.
Best,
Tim
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
4777 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 2:57pm
Islam is not a race so there is no way it can be refered to as racism. I've not said anything insulting to Muslims, neither has Big Jeff. Facts are facts though and here is the rub....your desire to embrace the whole world as one people united in love and understand means absolutely nothing outside of your own physical reach. If someone has a gun and they plan on shooting you your position on things doesn't have anything to do with him shooting you or not. Some times you have to fight because the other guy is forcing the situation.
You continue with the Japanese. There was a significant difference between the Japanese in Japan and the Americans of Japanese descent living in the United States (by the way, why is it the other countries who interned their Japanese and German residents never mentioned? Guess it isn't as fun as pointing fingers at the United States). The US was the US as a country of relative freedoms, not perfect at that time but who was? Japan was a country run by an Emporor viewed as a God by the populace and a military dictator basically and as a warrior culture which had a war mentality. They are not the same people, to believe that Japanese Americans are the same as Japanese is a class of racism on your part. Let me assure you that the Japanese Americans I was raised around (our high school football team was about 70% Japanese American) were nothing at all like the wonderful people of Japan in any manner except for physical appearance and even then there was a different look and way they carried themselves. Another thing, they were Americans not Japanese unless they were born in and citizens of Japan. That is another unique thing about a handful of countries, I could be born in and raised in Japan and I would never, ever, be Japanese, but anyone can become an American.
Keep riding your tall horse thinking that you are defending the militant Muslims out there because if they had their way you and your family would be just as dead as those that were crushed on 9-11. Also don't worry about the Japanese Americans, no one is locking them up anywhere unless they break a law. For you to think, as you imply, that the US is just waiting to do so in order for you to jump up and say "No! Don't lock them up, eh!" is utter nonsense.
By the way, the internment of Japanese Americans and the loss of their land, which was a terrible event, wasn't a policy througout the US. It took place on the West Coast, the rounding up of Germans took place on the East Coast, I'll let you figure out why that geographical dicernment was made. My father told me that in NYC where he lived, in a German area, all the German accents quickly vanished and Dieter became Danny.
You state I judged and entire race, looks to me like you were the one doing so.
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Timothy Drake
Inner circle
2101 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 3:06pm
Magic Santa,
Too make you happy I'll replace the word Racism with Prejudice. How bout that?
Why do you keep thinking I have anything against the Japanese? I'm simply saying it was once politically acceptable to stereotype them and now were are supposed to be above that. Above that means no more stereotyping..not simply switching groups.
Now you're saying there are two types of Japanese? Why can't there be two types of Muslims??? My point was that they were ALL being judged by the actions of some.
I don't think we are all one big happy world but I do know that ethic stereotypes like this don't help the situation much.
The US got mentioned only because Big Jeff mentioned it. I was only responding to his post. Canada was just a guilty. We had our own internment camps here.
Who said I was defending the militant Muslims. I'm defending the Billion Muslims not connected with such nonsense.
Your comment on Deiter becoming Danny is most interesting. I grew up in Dresden ( Canada) and only a short drive away you can get to Kitchener which before WW1 was known as Berlin.
The G in Edward G Robinson stood for Goldstein. The stereotypes of that day meant denying your religion publicly was necessary to put food on the table if that table depended on public opinion.
My only point is that this shouldn't have happened and should not be happening today.
Best,
Tim
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
4777 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 3:46pm
Prejudiced is better because racism implies the belief in ones race being superior to others (oddly this is a trait often attributed to Asian races). I didn't say you had something against the Japanese people, I was informing you that there is a significant difference between Japanese Americans and Japanese as in those born and raised in Japan. It is because culture has more in play than race. Just because they look similar doesn't make them the same.
Interesting, a billion Muslims and it is considered by experts that a mear ten percent are 'militant or support the militant position'. That would mean there are only a measly ten million people out there that wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if you were to be blown to lil' chunks in their name. Ten million...that is roughly one third the population of Canada, seems like a lot of people to me.
Just keep in mind, no on anywhere on this thread said anything about all of anyone being anything yet you keep defending against it. Keep fighting windmills.
PS: if you have a problem with the puppet guy contact him.
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Brian Proctor
Inner circle
Portland, Oregon
2039 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 3:52pm
I just watched the video. I thought it was hilarious!!! Just relax everyone.
www.BrianProctorMagic.com
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Timothy Drake
Inner circle
2101 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 3:53pm
Quote:
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Interesting, a billion Muslims and it is considered by experts that a mear ten percent are 'militant or support the militant position'. That would mean there are only a measly ten million people out there that wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if you were to be blown to lil' chunks in their name. Ten million...that is roughly one third the population of Canada, seems like a lot of people to me.
P.S.: if you have a problem with the puppet guy contact him.
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So that makes 990,000,000 innocent Muslims that have to watch this stuff stereo type them? Its ok to rag on them because of the other 10 percent???
FYI.. I did contact Jeff through his website. No response. I expect it got lost with many others.
Best,
Tim
For the record. Both Magic Santa and I were wrong in our math.
10% of one billion is 100 million, not 10 million. That leaves 900 million left and not 990 million as I posted. LOL
Best,
Tim
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paisa23
Inner circle
TWO years no smoking. And counting
5038 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 4:02pm
Oh wow, the bit is funny, I have this DVD. That's my Opinion, the "Ill KILLyou" is Hilarious. I honestly think we are way to sensitive now adays, my opinion ill leave it at that.
"Good things do come to those who wait. One must go through hell to get to heaven. Got me a cutie guys, I Love her"
http://twitter.com/paisa233
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
4777 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 4:16pm
100 million hate filled Muslims? That makes me feel better. I doubt many of them watched the show in question so no harm no foul.
I have an announcement to make:
During World War Two the racist collective known as Canada interned people of Japanese decent....a total of 22,000 of them in fact. Canada, forcing people from their homes and locking them into camps. Unlike the US, which kept families together, Canada sent the men to.....WORK CAMPS with out their families. It should also be noted that the US allowed the interned to file suits against the policy, no record of this in Canada, and that the US ended the practice in 1944, five years before the hate filled Canadians. The US also paid money to the Japanese Americans and others of Japanese ancenstory detained (not enough in my opinion because many lost farm lands worth millions today) and issued an apology, again I could find no record of this occuring in Canada. It should also be noted that the thousands of German, Italian, and other European (that is right kids, caucasians) that were put into internment camps were not paid nor did they, as of 2004, receive an official apology.
I swear before God and man that I shall NEVER allow Canada to take advantage of a race of people like that again!
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Dannydoyle
Eternal Order
10589 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 4:16pm
Funy no doubt.
I think my point was that it is odd that if it was not a vent doll and just Jeff, he never would get away with it now would he?
Everyone who attacked on 9/11 was a Muslim. That is a fact and not in dispute. (Well if you leave out crazy conspiracy theories with George W. Bush LOL)
Not EVERY MUSLIM attackted the US on that day though. This is the only distinction I think needs to be made. Not every Muslim demonstrates against the US.
If we paint all of them with the one brush, call it what you will it is wrong. I think this kind of encourages that sort of thing.
BUT in all fairness in deference to the country in which I proudly reside, he has the right to say it!
Danny Doyle
Semper Occultus
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
4777 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 4:18pm
My favorite in law, a Palestinian, says the Mosad attacked on 911. I just don't discuss it with him, kind of sad really.
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Timothy Drake
Inner circle
2101 Posts
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Posted: Oct 28, 2007 4:48pm
Quote:
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On 2007-10-28 16:16, MagicSanta wrote:
100 million hate filled Muslims? That makes me feel better. I doubt many of them watched the show in question so no harm no foul.
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There you go again avoiding the issue. What about the other 900 million? Will you address that? You admit there are 900 million innocent bystanders yet remain silent on that regard. Forget all the attempts at misdirection with political spin... lets hear your wisdom on the other 900 million.
The harm is not in Muslims watching it. The harm is in non muslims watching it and having it validate or insight stereotypes.
The Mossad reference from your Palestinian friend is interesting. He doesn't support terrorism and want to dance in the streets about 911? Could it be he is not an extremist and one of those 900 million? I wonder how he'd like this performance.
Would you ask him for a comment?
Best,
Tim
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