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Michael Peterson Inner circle is where I'm trapped, because of my 4071 Posts |
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On 2007-11-10 01:35, Christopher Kavanagh wrote: :rotf: Brilliant! Mike |
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KapBoy77 Loyal user Ottawa, Canada 213 Posts |
I like this topic only because it reminds me of my grandma.
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Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts |
Before I begin my comment, PLEASE bear in mind that I am NOT in ANY way proselytizing .
The Church to which I belong is best known to Westerners as the Greek Orthodox Church. Until 1054 AD, there was but ONE Christian church. The year 1054 AD brought about the tragic Great Schism which divided the Church into East and West. What is now known as the Orthodox Church adheres strictly to the doctrines and beliefs of Christianity from 33 AD to 787 AD. Since there was no contact with the west over the centuries, the doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide never entered Eastern Christianity. The Protestant Reformation came about in 1517 as a result of Luther's perception of excesses in the Church of Rome. This also marked the beginning of Sola Scriptura (Scripture only). Great misunderstandings arose from this type of Biblical exegesis, including the controversy over magic. Bear in mind that Reginald Scot's Discouverie of Witchcraft was intended to help cease the persecution of magicians - performers. As the Bible was written originally in Hebrew (OT) and Ancient Greek (NT), certain words and meanings did not transliterate properly into other languages. Even the King James Version of the Bible contains the same translational errors that appeared in St. Jerome's Latin translation of the Bible centuries before. The magic that is spoken about in the Bible is not performance magic, but rather "sorcery". Sorcery was that which was deception by evil intent, and it is THAT which believers in God were warned against. The Orthodox Church, The Roman Catholic Church, and most mainstream Protestant denominations recognise this and do not forbid Magic. We have a Greek Orthodox Priest who is a member here. Believe me when I tell you that if the Orthodox Church forbade Magic, he would not be here. The contributions of Fr. Cyprian and Bro. John Hamman, S.M., attest further to the fact that these Christian men follow the teachings of their Church as well. I am certain that there are many Protestant ministers who also do Magic. I know a Lutheran minister who is quite good! I have gone into this history and this post tom promote understanding. There is a danger in using the blanket term "Christian" when referring to those who believe magic in the performance sense is in any way evil. You will find that for these people, it is what they have been taught, even though the doctrine of magic being evil is not based upon Scripture. Lastly, the 1890s saw the birth of the Pentecostal and fundamentalist movements. These groups tend to be the most vocal against magic. This is due partly on the fact that their founders were not scholars in either Ancient Greek and/or Hebrew. Someone mentioned early on that there are "crazy ass Christians". I agree, but it is not the Christianity that makes them crazy. There are crazy atheists, Mormons, Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. etc. But again, it is NOT the religion, it is the individual person!! I believe that most people of Faith represent their beliefs well. We must not look at the fringe and da*n the whole lot of believers. I hope I have not offended anyone, and I confess that this was a tough post to write. This is not a theologic forum but I felt the need to at least provide an historical background to how the erroneous belief in peformance magic as evil came to be. Best, Vlad |
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SoCalPro Inner circle Southern California 1634 Posts |
Too, too much to read.
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On 2007-11-13 22:16, Vlad_77 wrote: The New Testament was written in Koine, which was the common spoken Greek language of the time, as distinguished from Attic. The best characterization of the differences in the languages that I've heard is that Attic was the Greek of the theater, and Koine was the Greek of shopping lists. |
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karbonkid Special user 951 Posts |
I say you just make some sponge crucifixes and do sponges A-Cross...or something. I have a great Jesus Svengali deck too. It's pretty sweet. They think they pick the eight of grapes, and then BAM! It's Jesus. I think we should move this thread to the FCM forum or something. I'd love to hear your ideas!
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Clark Special user 957 Posts |
If a person is too *** stupid to make the distinction between a guy hopping tables with sponge balls and a character from the Pentateuch, well, it pretty much speaks for itself.
“The key to creativity is in knowing how to hide your sources.”
Albert Einstein |
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Mark Ennis Inner circle Raleigh, NC 1031 Posts |
At my church, the pastor, who was also a magician, performed the cigarette through the quarter and used it as an analogy to tell the doubting Thomas story.
Also, Lylemagic taking his customer to court was the right thing to do. So what if you lose that customers business. I certainly have no desire to work with someone who would sign a contract and then threaten to not pay me if I didn't do something that was never discussed in the first place. What some people have described as "cold" must not really understand how business should operate. I can't imagine doing a business without contracts either. Wow. You have absolutely no recourse and apparently have no idea how valuable your time really is. If some of you guys want to work on the honor system and with hugs and kisses instead of contracts, that's your perogative. Remind me not to take business advice from you guys.
ME
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kammagic Inner circle 1304 Posts |
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On 2007-11-14 16:37, Mark Ennis wrote: What does your pastor think of your judgements? Here's a thought. Why not do the show for the lady but without the clown costume. I can't believe she could not be persuaded that you performing without the costume is better then no show at all. Then show up and knock em dead. If everyone loves you and she doesn't pay you then you have a good reason to take her to court. You make her party a hit and she will love you for it. The shows I have handled like this they have paid me as well as a very generous tip. Bottom line is they want everyone at the event to have a great time. Making sure that happens should be your goal. You make that happen and you WILL get paid. |
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Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts |
S2000,
Good point. I suppose I should have made myself more clear in that Ancient Greek and "modern" Greek do not transliterate well even within each other. English itself is much the same as an example. Old English looks barely recognisable to the modern reader, and of course, the best way to read the Canterbury Tales is in Middle English because of contextual and transliterary considerations. ----- To the poster who suggested "sponge crosses and BANG, there's Jesus, I DO hope you were being facetious. It is your right to follow or NOT follow any belief system. But I do feel there is a moral obligation nonetheless to at least respect the beliefs of others and try not to offend them; the same right that applies to you applies to them as well. If they truly believe that Magic is evil, then politely thank them for their time and gracefully move on as an earlier poster suggested. ----- Best, Vlad |
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Mark Ennis Inner circle Raleigh, NC 1031 Posts |
[quote]On 2007-11-14 18:17, kammagic wrote:
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What does your pastor think of your judgements? The pastor majored in business in college and created 2 succesful businesses before going full time into the ministry. I am certain that he would probably agree with me when it comes to contracts and business. My "judgements" weren't meant to be a personal attack. If my father made the same statements, he and I would also be in disagreement.
ME
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iwillfoolu Special user Upstate NY, USA 746 Posts |
Let's say a fair(or restaurant or whatever) calls you up and books you for a whole week in he middle of June. The pay is awesome: $10,000. Between now and then you get 15 calls from other prospects about those dates (which you turn down). One week before the shows, they call and cancel (the reason really doesn't matter) and tell you they aren't paying anything.
Would you take them to court? Why/Why not? |
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Mark Ennis Inner circle Raleigh, NC 1031 Posts |
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On 2007-11-15 09:59, iwillfoolu wrote: You can if you get them to sign a contract and it all depends on the circumstances. You can always take them to court but it would be up to the judge to decide who gets what.
ME
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ralphdean Loyal user Northern Ca 300 Posts |
In California, take them to small claims court. The fees are low and no lawyers. You can get up to $7500. You still have to collect though, which is a problem anytime you win. Look at OJ to see how difficult it can be to collect.
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karbonkid Special user 951 Posts |
The question is, however, if you do get summoned to court, will you have to wear that silly suit and ride a bicycle around the courtroom? And when you get there, do you juggle, or do card tricks. The world my never know.
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Mark Ennis Inner circle Raleigh, NC 1031 Posts |
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On 2007-11-15 11:31, ralphdean wrote: A judgement goes on your credit report and remains there until it is satisfied. If someone has great credit, this alone can pull their score down significantly.
ME
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karbonkid Special user 951 Posts |
"To the poster who suggested "sponge crosses and BANG, there's Jesus, I DO hope you were being facetious. It is your right to follow or NOT follow any belief system. But I do feel there is a moral obligation nonetheless to at least respect the beliefs of others and try not to offend them; the same right that applies to you applies to them as well. If they truly believe that Magic is evil, then politely thank them for their time and gracefully move on as an earlier poster suggested."
I wasn't. I live for gospel magic. Do you find my routining offensive? Maybe it would be different if you actually saw it. I've cause audible gasps in my church when I have done my magic there. |
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Mark Ennis Inner circle Raleigh, NC 1031 Posts |
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On 2007-11-15 14:41, karbonkid wrote: That routine sounds awesome. I heard the Bible was going to be on DVD. I hope they do a better job with it than Wesley James did with the cardman's Bible.
ME
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MagicMan11 New user 71 Posts |
I guess some people just don't appreciate all the hard work we put into what we do just to entertain them. They probably don't understand that it is just a form of entertainment. Just like anything else. Whether its singing, dancing, comedy etc.
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Joey Stalin Inner circle Canada 1072 Posts |
Sorry, where are you working? Haiti?
-A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.
-It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. -The secret impresses no one. The trick you use it for is everything. See you space cowboy... |
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