JeffMac



I also have been at the end of the finger when someone offers to pray for me as a way to end an argument or someone who disapproves of my actions. And though some say it in a goodwill manner many do use it as an admonishment.

I am going to try something new ..... When they say that from now on I will respond:

"Hope you evolve!!"

Does anyone know how to do the trick where you pull your thumb off?


In all seriousness, can't we all just agreee to disagree? This is the exact reason that I don't discuss religion generally, it always turns into an argument.

Back to the original point of this thread,I have been discriminated against because my magic was thought to be evil or supernatural.

I took it as a compliment!



Mike

Lets get the TOPIC back on track. Yes! there are times when you will run into unusual situations that you have NO control over. Please stop the bickering and get back to the TOPIC at hand. The original poster of the topic has stated that we sometimes run into unique situations and wondered how we would handle the situation. Whether you SUE someone or not is that persons business. It does not sound like his business is suffering at all.

Rodney

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i97/Ma......orse.gif

When I meet someone, I always bring up religeon and politics. That way I know right off the bat how stupid or smart they are.

Anyone that is extreme on one side or the other in politics and/or religeon makes me wonder. But it can also quite entertaining.

I once worked with a Baptist and a Jovovah (sic?) Witness. Both believed in the Bible to the letter. Just for fun, I used to bring up a passage in the Bible for discussion. Then, I would sit back and watch them argue to the point of near violence. GREAT FUN!!!
I have my beliefs, I do believe in God, but I don't feel the need to sway anyone else to believe. I really don't have much use for organized religions, any of them. I suppose if I wanted to engage in a war, I could pick one, anyone, and then go kill people in the name of my God. Rough guess, anyone? What do you think, 90% of the wars in the history of this planet have been over religious beliefs?...The other 10% probably over geography and financial issues, or geography in order to gain financially?
Patrick

A priest, a rabi and baptist minister walk into a bar. The bartender looks up and says, "Hey, is this, a joke?

In my opinion you forgot the most important meaning on the back (and front) of a one dollar bill. On each corner there is a big number 1. It means 100 pennies. Ain't much but it makes the world go round!

[quote]On 2007-11-10 00:41, S2000magician wrote:


I am offended .... they are horses of Middle eastern decent not Arabian

:rotf: Brilliant!


Mike

I like this topic only because it reminds me of my grandma.

Before I begin my comment, PLEASE bear in mind that I am NOT in ANY way proselytizing .

The Church to which I belong is best known to Westerners as the Greek Orthodox Church. Until 1054 AD, there was but ONE Christian church. The year 1054 AD brought about the tragic Great Schism which divided the Church into East and West. What is now known as the Orthodox Church adheres strictly to the doctrines and beliefs of Christianity from 33 AD to 787 AD. Since there was no contact with the west over the centuries, the doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide never entered Eastern Christianity.

The Protestant Reformation came about in 1517 as a result of Luther's perception of excesses in the Church of Rome. This also marked the beginning of Sola Scriptura (Scripture only). Great misunderstandings arose from this type of Biblical exegesis, including the controversy over magic. Bear in mind that Reginald Scot's Discouverie of Witchcraft was intended to help cease the persecution of magicians - performers.

As the Bible was written originally in Hebrew (OT) and Ancient Greek (NT), certain words and meanings did not transliterate properly into other languages. Even the King James Version of the Bible contains the same translational errors that appeared in St. Jerome's Latin translation of the Bible centuries before.

The magic that is spoken about in the Bible is not performance magic, but rather "sorcery". Sorcery was that which was deception by evil intent, and it is THAT which believers in God were warned against. The Orthodox Church, The Roman Catholic Church, and most mainstream Protestant denominations recognise this and do not forbid Magic.

We have a Greek Orthodox Priest who is a member here. Believe me when I tell you that if the Orthodox Church forbade Magic, he would not be here. The contributions of Fr. Cyprian and Bro. John Hamman, S.M., attest further to the fact that these Christian men follow the teachings of their Church as well. I am certain that there are many Protestant ministers who also do Magic. I know a Lutheran minister who is quite good!

I have gone into this history and this post tom promote understanding. There is a danger in using the blanket term "Christian" when referring to those who believe magic in the performance sense is in any way evil. You will find that for these people, it is what they have been taught, even though the doctrine of magic being evil is not based upon Scripture.

Lastly, the 1890s saw the birth of the Pentecostal and fundamentalist movements. These groups tend to be the most vocal against magic. This is due partly on the fact that their founders were not scholars in either Ancient Greek and/or Hebrew.

Someone mentioned early on that there are "crazy ass Christians". I agree, but it is not the Christianity that makes them crazy. There are crazy atheists, Mormons, Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. etc. But again, it is NOT the religion, it is the individual person!!

I believe that most people of Faith represent their beliefs well. We must not look at the fringe and da*n the whole lot of believers.

I hope I have not offended anyone, and I confess that this was a tough post to write. This is not a theologic forum but I felt the need to at least provide an historical background to how the erroneous belief in peformance magic as evil came to be.

Best,
Vlad

Too, too much to read.

The New Testament was written in Koine, which was the common spoken Greek language of the time, as distinguished from Attic. The best characterization of the differences in the languages that I've heard is that Attic was the Greek of the theater, and Koine was the Greek of shopping lists.

I say you just make some sponge crucifixes and do sponges A-Cross...or something. I have a great Jesus Svengali deck too. It's pretty sweet. They think they pick the eight of grapes, and then BAM! It's Jesus. I think we should move this thread to the FCM forum or something. I'd love to hear your ideas!

If a person is too *** stupid to make the distinction between a guy hopping tables with sponge balls and a character from the Pentateuch, well, it pretty much speaks for itself.

At my church, the pastor, who was also a magician, performed the cigarette through the quarter and used it as an analogy to tell the doubting Thomas story.

Also, Lylemagic taking his customer to court was the right thing to do. So what if you lose that customers business. I certainly have no desire to work with someone who would sign a contract and then threaten to not pay me if I didn't do something that was never discussed in the first place.

What some people have described as "cold" must not really understand how business should operate. I can't imagine doing a business without contracts either. Wow. You have absolutely no recourse and apparently have no idea how valuable your time really is.

If some of you guys want to work on the honor system and with hugs and kisses instead of contracts, that's your perogative. Remind me not to take business advice from you guys.

What does your pastor think of your judgements?

Here's a thought. Why not do the show for the lady but without the clown costume. I can't believe she could not be persuaded that you performing without the costume is better then no show at all. Then show up and knock em dead. If everyone loves you and she doesn't pay you then you have a good reason to take her to court. You make her party a hit and she will love you for it. The shows I have handled like this they have paid me as well as a very generous tip. Bottom line is they want everyone at the event to have a great time. Making sure that happens should be your goal. You make that happen and you WILL get paid.

S2000,

Good point. I suppose I should have made myself more clear in that Ancient Greek and "modern" Greek do not transliterate well even within each other. English itself is much the same as an example. Old English looks barely recognisable to the modern reader, and of course, the best way to read the Canterbury Tales is in Middle English because of contextual and transliterary considerations.

-----

To the poster who suggested "sponge crosses and BANG, there's Jesus, I DO hope you were being facetious. It is your right to follow or NOT follow any belief system. But I do feel there is a moral obligation nonetheless to at least respect the beliefs of others and try not to offend them; the same right that applies to you applies to them as well. If they truly believe that Magic is evil, then politely thank them for their time and gracefully move on as an earlier poster suggested.

-----

Best,
Vlad