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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Good post, Nordatrax - logical, clear and to the point.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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John Born Veteran user 390 Posts |
Xpilot - I did not lecture on the pure "Name a card, name a number" method featured in the book. You can read "Meant To Be" to find the method they are talking about. The version in the lecture is also in the book, and is my work on Al Baker's approach, as it hits hard and is within the skill level of the average club member.
Frank sent me a copy of his routine before advertising it. I recommended that he not put it out. It is not even an ACAAN, but rather a direct card at any number effect. There are very many predecessors that are almost exactly the same. It is a fine effect for a person to perform, but offers nothing new in regards to method, construction, or presentation to be published or sold. It was also completely unresearched and uncredited. I offered to help on this, and then never received a reply. Here we are I guess... John B. Born |
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thehawk Inner circle 2275 Posts |
Frank apparently thinks its pretty good and if you post anything negative on it like I did he PM"S you and threatens you and then says to not reply to his pm.
Like I said before the worst that Frank could do would be to make me watch that terrible demo again. |
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John Born Veteran user 390 Posts |
Any type of slamming is the wrong approach. We see it over and over on the Café of people getting defensive on people attacking their ideas. He is excited about something and wanted to put it out.
The key in many of these circumstances is stressing the importance of research and crediting. There are many of us that are glad to help and encourage innovation. My only concern is that he made the fist step, learned that he had a lot more work to do in terms of research, learned that this routine did not warrant release, yet immediately put it out anyway. John B. Born |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Hey John,
I was sad that we couldn't meet up in NY, and I hope you feel better. Next time I'm down there we'll try again! It saddens me to hear that Frank contacted you for your opinion and then disregarded it. What's the point of seeking objective opinions if you ignore them? I think an issue people have is that they think people LIKE being negative, and like bashing products. While this might be true for a small number of people, the majority of us WANT the product to be good! It benefits US, magicians in general, directly! I would have LOVED to have a nearly self working, non-gaffed, completely fool proof, ACAAN-what person interested in this problem wouldn't! But, as I mentioned in an earlier post- people RUSH to get material out there, regardless if it was ready. Imagine what the product COULD have been if it had the proper research! Hopefully, Frank will pull the product from the market, do a little more research (and spend a couple of bucks putting together a nicer package) and release a better, and more worthwhile product. And, if John is still willing to help, that's a great start! a couple of things that should be noted, in regards to the promo bullet points- 1) Although there are no individually gaffed cards, since the deck ISN'T normal, I consider it a Trick Deck (which, for all intensive purposes, makes it a gaffed deck). 2) 80% of the time you do this trick there is sleight of hand used. It's not difficult work, but it's still sleights... 3) if the box method is used it sometimes won't reset instantly (though, it shouldn't take long to do). Finally, in regards to Frank threatening you not to post negative comments- I spoke with Frank and found him to be a nice guy. He didn't agree with my standpoint, but he seemed gracious about it. Anyway, I'm off to bed! Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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andrewmayne V.I.P. 142 Posts |
"Two examples that come to mind are Andrew Mayne's Ghost Cards and Mayne's Hyper Cards- nothing wrong with the tricks, but they are something that could be described in a page and would be one of many items you might have found in a $5 periodical 10 years ago (If I spent some time I could probably come up with 20-30 more similar examples without looking too hard."
I've never released an effect called "Ghost Cards", as far as Ghost Bills and Hyper Cards are concerned they could be exposed in a page, but I'm not sure if they could be properly taught to the average performer. There's a reason why we often say there's a lot of great stuff buried in magazines. The printed page often doesn't do this stuff justice. Just look at the reaction to Joshua Jay's Talk About Tricks DVDs. That stuff is gold. It was gold when it was in print, now it's easier for the rest of us to see that. I have a whole website (www.magiczine.com) for stuff that's the kind of thing I'd have put in a magazine 10 years ago. |
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Y2John Inner circle 1498 Posts |
John Born... wow, I had no idea you were contacted about 'The Quest', and then for your advice and offer to help being completely disregarded... shame about that.
I would have thought advice and help from someone such as yourself would have been lapped up. |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-01-07 05:23, Y2John wrote: Sometimes (not saying that happened here) people seeking "advice" are really seeking "endorsment" and a blurb... e.g. "WOW!" Said John Born or "If I had though of this, I would have called it the Born Supremecy (or Ultimatum!)" - John Born etc. Y'know, where a product suddenly has 20 names with blubs attached... Glad I just stuck with Berglas / Mead / theorists in general for ACAAN methods (i.e. first method which is best - use st***** - after that - use an ungimmicked deck and wait for the opportunity to present itself using all the various skills a cardician can muster... and use it once in a while to make it truly a miracle... Miracles shouldn't be repeated too often or they are not really miracles now, are they? IMHO
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Xpilot Elite user Florida 464 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-01-06 21:51, John Born wrote: If you could give me the title, chapter or page number of the correct version I'll be happy to form an opinion based on that (rather than my assumptions about the version you did in the lecture). It's certainly not my intention to mislead anyone based on incorrect assumptions. |
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Xpilot Elite user Florida 464 Posts |
[quote]On 2008-01-07 10:45, Xpilot wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-01-06 21:51, John Born wrote: If you could give me the title, chapter or page number of the correct version I'll be happy to form an opinion based on that (rather than my assumptions about the version you did in the lecture). It's certainly not my intention to mislead anyone based on incorrect assumptions. For the record, the version I've used most is from Barrie Richardson's Theater of the Mind, page 257. |
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Xpilot Elite user Florida 464 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-01-06 23:49, andrewmayne wrote: Obviously that was a typo and I meant Ghost Bills. Sorry if that caused any confusion. |
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
Not to put to fine a point on things, but you can pick up John's brilliant ACAAN tome "Meant to Be" for $55.00 from H&R.
It contains ACAAN thoughts and effects from Ken Krenzel, Allan Ackerman, Barrie Richardson, Banachek, Luke Jermay, Martin Joyal, Joshua Jay, Tony Miller, Paul Cummins, Mike Powers, Jason Dea and others. Just a thought, but it might be an excellent place to spend your money if you're interested in lots of high quality ACAAN discussion, with everything fully credited. |
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Dmann Inner circle Crossville, Tennessee 1683 Posts |
Due to the Controversy involved in this case Precision Magic has decided not to release this effect and it has been turned back over to Frank Valesco.
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Kevin Fox New user 80 Posts |
In that case & as I (still) Havnt received the down load I paid for ID 124692826
Please can I have a refund. |
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Dmann Inner circle Crossville, Tennessee 1683 Posts |
Kevin,
Your order was emailed to you within minutes of your order and it was resent to you again last night when I became aware that you didn't receive it. I hope that helps and that you enjoy it. Even though I don't distribute the product any longer its still a good trick. |
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Tanner & Company New user 45 Posts |
I really didn't enjoy this very much, it just didn't seem like it had any real punch to my audience
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thehawk Inner circle 2275 Posts |
It didn't have any punch to the girls in the video either.
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mormonyoyoman Inner circle I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only 2440 Posts |
Why would one want to punch the girls in the video?
*jeep! --Grandpa Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
--Grandpa Chet |
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