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Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts |
Like I tell my 6 year young son ......
....... The only thing fair in life is a baseball hit into play
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Don't like it either: it only shows insecurity. "Don't run when nobody's chasing you"
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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JRob Veteran user Central South Carolina 395 Posts |
Dad burn it! Lawrence beat me to it. Let's face it, once you ask that question, the spectator will ask (at least mentally if not audibly) "why wouldn't it be fair, unless, of course...?"
"Jim Roberts, AKA: Professor Jay Rob "<br>
The Professor's Facebook Page |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
I always avoid challenging my audience. It should be a trip taken together. Create an adversarial relationship with your audience and you will find it difficult to draw them in to your world.
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Like every principle not asking "is it fair" has it's limit. Without taking back what I expressed, I'd like to advocate for subtlety in our art.
Daryl properly uses the expression "is it fair?" in the following way. He would do very deliberately and overtly something perfectly genuine asking "Is it fair ?" and when the spectator would confirm, Daryl would further reconfirm with emphasis "Yes... I know...!". The whole point here is that Daryl doesn't use the term "Is it fair? for satisfying a form of insecurity he would have after performing a magical move, but for entertaining purposes and to bring the audience guard down. He is using the "don't run when nobody is chasing you" at the third level. Like John Ramsay used to do, he creates a suspicion with the question, but only when there is nothing to suspect or when the dispelling of the suspicion creates sufficient a misdirection to do something THEN. The danger in using this approach too lightly and verbatim is that less experienced magicians may tend to rationalize what they are already doing. Using Daryl's words simply as a quote rather than as a subtle example could result from a need for justification instead of a ground for a reconsideration of what we do and add depth to our magic and its entertainment value.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts |
Michael Ammar uses this phrase quite a bit.
Here is another question along the lines of "is it fair" question. How about when at the end the effect some magicians go over what has just taken place. In other words something like this "...you have cut the deck. You have shuffled the cards and...". Isn't this a subtle form of the "is this fair" question?
Magic is a vanishing art.
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MikeyM71 Regular user Chesapeake, OH 153 Posts |
I don't care for this phrase either. To me, it would just raise suspicion.
<BR>Mikey M.
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
But raising suspicion can, within limits, be a very strong misdirection and be quite entertaining. Did you ever do a Spider Grip Vanish with a coin?
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
I think it's only useful when using a trick that deliberately wants an audience to try to catch you. Or, it can be used when everyone knows the result before it happens and you want to make it more challenging. I have a hard enough time making my audiences believe I do magic, they won't stop asking me how it's done!
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obsidian52 Veteran user United States 375 Posts |
Hate that phrase "Is thid/it fair" It is entirely like saying I have in my hand an "ordinary deck" to imply there is such a thing as an unordinary deck...SHEESH
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-21 10:38, Lawrence O wrote: Not usually a sound strategy - and rather misses the underlying issue - the "why" of any sense of suspicion. Do they trust your actions? If not - is that what you want? And yes I use variations on the Spider vanish often though not using a design that could teach the audience to look at the wrong hand.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Seems like Slydini (and others) would feint a suspicious move....and then go into a HPC.
For some spectators everything we say and do is suspicious. I used to concentrate on pleasing that 1(or 2) out of the group. It is a bit different these days. Harris still 2 old to know everything
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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P.Synenberg New user Abingdon, Va 58 Posts |
I always just say "seems simple enough, don't you agree?"
-P.J. Synenberg
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HerbLarry Special user Poof! 731 Posts |
"So far so good?"
You know why don't act naive.
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ancientmagic Regular user Tucson AZ 112 Posts |
I agree using the "is that fair" brings a question into play that may not have even been on the spectator's mind. One can use a direct statement to eliminate suspicion if need be or to "set" a point in time in the observer's mind. For example, if I take a selected card and place it into the center of the deck...push it into the deck and say, "Now isn't that fair." I have put a question into play. The human mind will respond, "is it really," even if it is not verbalized.
However, if I say something like, "Ok, let's see what we had done so far. You have selected a card, signed it, we placed your card in the middle of the deck...now we can" This is true and it involves the observer in creating the event without using a question. Questions often beget other question when used to validate circumstances. Best, John
"In victory you deserve champagne…in defeat you need it!" –Napoleon Bonaparte
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MagicJuggler Inner circle Anchorage, AK 1161 Posts |
I agree that "is it fair?" is more often used in a way that has the possibility of raising questions you may not want the spectator to think, or cause suspicion when it's undesired. But I think it's important to have moments of reinforcement with the audience, where you create agreement with the conditions that you are establishing, and elicit a positive response from one or more audience members which helps condition the rest of the audience to accept the conditions as valid. More often than not, "Is it fair?" is a clumsy attempt to do so. (Or all to often an attempt to force agreement when the performer is unsure whether the audience bought the move or conditions set)
I also agree that the raising of suspicion (or more broadly, tension) can be a strong tool in misdirection. By raising tension (suspicion is a form of tension) then releasing it, you create a moment of inattention where a move can be performed without undue scrutiny.
Matthew Olsen
I heard from a friend that anecdotal evidence is actually quite reliable. |
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spcarlson Veteran user Minneapolis MN 369 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-02-07 22:58, Jerrine wrote: This is exactly it; it's a subtle, subconscious way of getting your audience or customer to agree with you and when done properly it can be very effective. You’re putting a suggestion in their minds. Magicians are doing this type of thing all the time this shouldn’t be any different. Here’s the important point, if you’re using a phrase like this make sure what you are a doing does look totally fair. That’s why it worked for Tommy Wonder. |
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charliewerner Regular user 164 Posts |
I feel there nothing wrong with it. At anytime during the trick, if audience it not fair, then it is useless for them to see the magic happen.
An audience see you p*lm a card..how would an audience be surprise if the card suddenly land in your pocket.. "Til now everything is fair" "if I go any fairer than that, you be cheating me" Some of the lines are good way that seems to give opportunity for audience to stop the magician routine that suit to their knowledge." Imagine a heckler say "that is a fake egg" , the magician say "to be fair I have you to come out to examine the egg". Then the magician give the heckler a glass to hold and break the real egg into his hand. "Sorry, it not the egg that are fake, is the cup that I give you that are fake." Another example, ACR, a card is selected and sign (To be fair that you are not use duplicate), next card insert in the deck slowly (To be fair to their eye and let them see everything clearly), card jump to top (surprise) Next they trying to figure out which part of the routine are unfair. show them their sign card, let them hold it and insert anyway in the deck (Now it got to be fair right now), ask them turn over the top card themselves (to be fair).. card jump to top. Hence, how much audience fool by a magic trick is determine by how fair he thought the magician have done. In coin across routine, if you can show a coin before it disappear in the fairest manner and reappear in the other hand slowly. That is a great magic (COIN ONE BY HOMER LIWAG) Warning: If you ask your spectator that is what you did just now, is fair or not, be prepare for them to shuffle your deck of card, check the location of the card...You need to do lot of impromptu stuff and impromptu patter line which most magician are no skillful enough to do... Gregory Wilson, David Williamson, and perhaps Luchen from Taiwan and definitely Dai Vernon and Charlie Miller who always practice how to end a trick under different circumstance. "Judge a magician skill not with point of view of a magician, but point of view of a layperson or amateur magician." "Most layman have some kind of magic knowledge, asking him to show you under what condition he feel fair, and perform it in that condition. He will be fool badly, and that is one reason magician move from stage to the street." Layperson know magician use smoke and mirror on stage, so magician in order to be fair move to the street, that is FAIR ENOUGH TO FOOL ME. Being fair is not easy, mean you need to do extra work. But that what going to make you a legend. Malini,on one seating with Dai vernon and other magician in a fair sitting, always able to produce a Big cube of Ice under his head.
"Seeing Joy, Sadness, Anger,Contempt,Surprise, Disgust,Fear on people faces are the motivation of my MAGIC" Charlie Werner (C.C.L)
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charliewerner Regular user 164 Posts |
People always want to be special. Imagine a spectator fooled by you and tell her friends and family that, a magician torn corner of the card which magician usually don't, but to be fair and specially done for her alone. The card jump into bottle she just hold. She feel special.
"Seeing Joy, Sadness, Anger,Contempt,Surprise, Disgust,Fear on people faces are the motivation of my MAGIC" Charlie Werner (C.C.L)
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Paul Budd Elite user It's a shame he's only made 438 Posts |
Patter and verbal misdirection has become a very fascincating part of the art to me. I've seen/heard some great guys say this phrase......I dunno.......like another commenter had mentioned, in sales, you're trying to get the customer saying, "Yes" during your pitch.
Sometimes, the greatest magicians understand that words have an intrinsically hypnotic effect if/when used properly. I'm kinda on the fence on this one. (I'll probably use this phrase next week!)
His face isn't really this long in-person!
___________________________________________ Once Upon A Magician blog |
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