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AsL
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I just saw Steve Forte in action for the first time since I've started studying magic quite some time ago. All I can say is WOW! Talk about talent. I wish I would've been more familiar with his work earlier...

All the Best,
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DNshade
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It's nice to have your eyes opened huh? Steve has the best pair of hands out there - period. Especially when it comes to anything gaming related.

D
magicfish
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Quote:
On 2008-02-18 20:11, DNshade wrote:
It's nice to have your eyes opened huh? Steve has the best pair of hands out there - period. Especially when it comes to anything gaming related.

D


Not quite sure about that.... but he certainly is excellent.
DNshade
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Quote:
On 2008-02-18 20:17, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-02-18 20:11, DNshade wrote:
It's nice to have your eyes opened huh? Steve has the best pair of hands out there - period. Especially when it comes to anything gaming related.

D


Not quite sure about that.... but he certainly is excellent.


Well I am quite sure - as are the rest of the guys who know. Take my word for it. A whole different level.

D
T. Joseph O'Malley
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Quote:
On 2008-02-18 20:17, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-02-18 20:11, DNshade wrote:
It's nice to have your eyes opened huh? Steve has the best pair of hands out there - period. Especially when it comes to anything gaming related.

D


Not quite sure about that.... but he certainly is excellent.


Who would you say is better?
tjo'
RS1963
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I have to agree that Steve is the best. He isn't held in such high esteam from no reason. Steve can do the moves and as of yet there has not been anyone that can top him. That doesn't mean that there isn't someone out there that could but so far there has been no one that can.
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Tom Christensen
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I've never seen Steve perform. How does he compare to my favorite gambling cheat, Richard Turner?
Chris SD
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On 2008-02-18 22:14, Tom Christensen wrote:
I've never seen Steve perform. How does he compare to my favorite gambling cheat, Richard Turner?


...He's better, and he can see.
in flames
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Lee Asher told me, just seeing Steve hold a deck in his hand, he was in awe. that's how good Steve is.
Hansen
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I think those in the know say that Steve Forte is the best, with Richard Turner the next in line. Both men are truly brilliant with a deck of cards in their hands.
pepka
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Forte is the man, 'nuff said. I got to meet Richard Turner a year ago and was really in awe of his skill. I can say he's up there, but Steve is a killer.
magicfish
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Forte is definitely right there, the guy is awesome. I definitely put him up near the top, but the best? again, I'm not sure about that. That's all. Personally I would prefer to watch Ricky Jay with a pack of cards.

Jason

P.S. I also like Steve Freeman and Persi Diaconis
Andy the cardician
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Steve rocks - but seems to move in fast company
Cards never lie
Dorian Rhodell
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From what I hear, I believe the gentlemen Magicfish would rather watch, would rather watch Forte. I also believe the said gentlemen would agree with Damien's assertion.

Best,

Dorian Rhodell
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RS1963
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I think what the original poster was trying to say is that Steve Forte has the best chops with cards move wise of anyone. Not that he was the best performer. I can see where some would say they would rather watch Ricky Jay perform. I would agree Ricky would be much more entertaining but skill wise Steve surpasses Ricky or anyone else at this time.


Randy
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Andy the cardician
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I read that as well
Cards never lie
magicfish
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Forte is an expert. I don't know if I've seen better seconds. And overall I'd say he's definitely one of the best few.
That said, he does work a tad fast. Also, this is a magic forum- specifically cards. And it is my opinion that the greatest exponent of pure sleight of hand with cards on planet earth at this moment is Ricky Jay. He is smoother, calmer. His study of Vernon and Miller come through with every touch. Forte is rock em sockem- Jay is poetry in motion.
RS1963
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Agreed magic wise Ricky is the man . But otherwise it's Steve no question He's over Ricky and anyone else.
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pepka
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Look at it this way. Steve's main area of expertise is casino security. He has served as a consultant at dozens of casinos and authored books on the subject. To my knowledge he doesn't really perform for the general public. Ricky and Richard are performers. I'm sure Ricky's main source of income comes from other projects, but come on, the guy has been on Broadway in a one man show that was directed by David Mamet. They are entertainers, and Steve is a technician.

Jason, if you're still reading this, any update on the DVDs? Will you have some at WMS?
Bret Maverick
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I'm just curious, Magicfish, on what you base your conclusion that Steve always works "a tad fast" in a "rock em sockem" fashion, lacking the smoothness and calmness that Ricky Jay presents. Besides his twenty year old GPS videotapes and his ten year old appearance on NBC's Hidden Secrets of Magic posted all over the Internet, video of Steve's card work is rather scarce, thereby limiting one's ability to objectively critique his overall skill and ability, and accurately compare his work today with others.

I am confident that the members of this forum who know Steve well(including a few who've already posted within this thread) would agree that Steve has the ability to adjust his dealing style and card handling methods to suit any venue and, while he modestly claims not to be a magician, he has the uncanny ability to perform a series of seemingly impromptu, yet well choreographed effects that many magicians would be proud to call their own, and others can only dream of imitating.

Please do not interpret this post to negate in any way Ricky Jay's vast knowledge of both magic and gambling ploys, his wonderful talent or his tremendous performing ability. Ricky Jay, as Steve described him in Paul Wilson's Genii article, is "a talent unlike anyone I have ever met", and is one of Steve's favorite magicians.

I simply feel that it is unfair and unnecessary to degrade one card master's skill to praise another's, especially when they are from different professions.

Bret Maverick
"If all a man can count on one day is pushing up the grass, when I do I'll lay you odds that grass is mine!" - Theme Song For The T.V. Series BRET MAVERICK, by Ed Bruce
Cohiba
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It seems like this thread is comparing apples to oranges. As far as I know, and from what I've seen, Steve is not a magician. He doesn't do magic tricks, he shows what is possible with a deck of cards (and dice, etc.) at the gambling tables. That's not magic - the technique is openly shown and described.

There's not a magician alive that can compare to his expertise with a deck of cards when it comes to gambling sleights and routines. On the other hand, there are many magicians that could blow him away with card manipulation, or a variety of other "magic tricks". It also may be possible that there is a card handler out there that is better than Steve. If so, his name wouldn't be known to magicians. He'd be a professional gambler.
Andy the cardician
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Spot on . . .
Cards never lie
Dorian Rhodell
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Quote:
On 2008-02-20 23:39, Cohiba wrote:
It seems like this thread is comparing apples to oranges. As far as I know, and from what I've seen, Steve is not a magician. He doesn't do magic tricks, he shows what is possible with a deck of cards (and dice, etc.) at the gambling tables. That's not magic - the technique is openly shown and described.

There's not a magician alive that can compare to his expertise with a deck of cards when it comes to gambling sleights and routines. On the other hand, there are many magicians that could blow him away with card manipulation, or a variety of other "magic tricks". It also may be possible that there is a card handler out there that is better than Steve. If so, his name wouldn't be known to magicians. He'd be a professional gambler.

To quote Paul Chosse,

"As for Forte, someone posted to the effect that he is not a magician - nothing could be further from the truth - ask one of HIS mentors, Ray Goulet..."

Best,

Dorian Rhodell
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Cohiba
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Dorian:
I am not an expert on Forte - I've only seen some of his work on television and his Gambling Protection series. I'm sure with his chops that he can pull off some pretty cool card magic tricks - why would you not do some neat effects from a related field when you already have the tools at your disposal?

However, his "thing" is gambling. Just like Pavarotti could no doubt sing other types of music, he was primarily known for opera music. That was his niche. Many magicians can pull off a simple gambling trick or two, but you wouldn't classify them as false dealing / gambling experts.

The fact that he had a magician as a mentor, and maybe started his path due to an interest in magic is irrelevent in my opinion. He settled into his niche as probably the best false dealer / gambling demonstrator out there. His latest offering is a massive book on all forms of gambling protection. I doubt there's a magician that could have produced that book.
silverking
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I am not an expert on Forte -

Your statement is dead on.
walid ahumada
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It is just a matter of taste, I think DARWIN ORTIZ works smoother.

walid
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Danny Borneo
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Darwin is amazing and a very competent performer, but I wouldn't really put him in the same class as Forte. Now maybe I'm out of line here (I don't keep as much with the politics of this thing we do as much as I used to due to other projects), but I see no mention of Martin Nash. From what I remember of the performances I've seen of his he can hold his own with Forte, not saying he's better, but could definitely keep pace with him for a long while. Again I haven't seen anything of his in years, but what I remember was amazing.
Cain
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Steve Forte vs. Ricky Jay vs. Martin Nash vs. Darwin Ortiz blah blah blah. After this maybe you guys could argue over which one of your dads would win in a fight, or better yet, if Guile could actually take Zangiff. Frankly, I never bought the whole "razor kick" idea (it's physically impossible).
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RS1963
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This thread has gotten so sidetracked from what it was obviously intended to say.

No one was trying to say that Forte is better at performing magic then anyone. What I read and what some are trying to say as well. When it comes to gambling moves Steve Forte has no equal. This has been true in the past and at this time still is.

No one is trying to take anything away from Ricky Jay, Or anyother expert cardmen that we know of. The simple fact was posted by the author of this thread that Forte was the best. Those who know this to be the fact agreed. Those that tried to read more into the original post have sidetracked it and turned it into something compleatly different.

Randy
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Chris SD
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Quote:
On 2008-02-21 14:10, Danny Borneo wrote:
Now maybe I'm out of line here (I don't keep as much with the politics of this thing we do as much as I used to due to other projects), but I see no mention of Martin Nash. From what I remember of the performances I've seen of his he can hold his own with Forte, not saying he's better, but could definitely keep pace with him for a long while.


By reading your post, I'm not sure whether we're talking about card handling or a timed mile.
Darwin Ortiz, Steve Forte, and Martin Nash don't need random guys on the magic Café to measure their chops for them.
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