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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Steve Spill, not Mel Mellers (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Larry Davidson
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As I mentioned previously, in the 1980's I worked at the Brook Farm Inn of Magic with Steve Spill and others, and I personally witnessed Steve develop and fine tune this idea and routine. I don't know why you're focusing only on a joke. Read the other postings in this thread and you'll understand why the routine was pulled from Mellers' DVDs.
Max Maven
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Zrububble writes:
Quote:
PHIL, by Max Maven, is originally by Ali Bongo (without credit).

I've put in far too much effort toward proper crediting to allow this misinformed comment to stand. When I first released "Final Fred" (which is what is now marketed as "The PHIL Deck"), I was quite clear in my crediting. The basic gag probably goes back to Alexander Woollcott, but as a card effect the starting point was Fred Lowe. It was from his trick that Ali Bongo, and then many others, came up with versions.

So, please bear this in mind: (A) The method for my version is radically different from that of Lowe or any of the others who preceded me, and (B) the key credit to Lowe always was and still is in the instructions.

There are plenty of things I've done that may warrant criticism. This isn't one of them.
Zerububle
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Please accept my apology Mr Maven. I was making a point about assumptions and then went ahead a clearly made my own! I have amended the post accordingly.

Once again, my apologies.

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Zerububle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-12 13:10, Larry Davidson wrote:
As I mentioned previously, in the 1980's I worked at the Brook Farm Inn of Magic with Steve Spill and others, and I personally witnessed Steve develop and fine tune this idea and routine. I don't know why you're focusing only on a joke. Read the other postings in this thread and you'll understand why the routine was pulled from Mellers' DVDs.

I have read it all. The routine was pulled because of the similarity and the hassle that would ensue... not necessarily an admission of guilt! The assumption that it was stolen is the problem I have with all this.

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MetalBender
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It's Steve's. If Meller didn't feel guilty about presenting an unauthorized presentation of Steve's routine, then why did the pull the DVD off the market so quickly?
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Zerububle
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It would not have been Mel's decision. What is it with you all. Mel would have signed the DVD over to RSVP. Russ Stevens would have made the decision based on HIS business reputation. The DVD being pulled is a testament to Russ' integrity and NOT proof of Mel's behaviour. For all you know Mel could have been doing this for 30 years. You can't proof he hasn't.

Stop tarnishing other peoples names with your narrow minded views.

The slogan for The Café is magicians helping magicians not magicians taking pot shots at magicians based on limited information, hearsay and personal opinion.

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Zerububle
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Why the hell do posts keep vanishing? Is there some way of editing what you have already written? If so can I adjust a previous post on this thread?

Is the Café only for those who agree with the owners views? Not designed to cause problems, just an honest observation.

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Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-12 09:09, Zerububle wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-05-09 15:17, Amyxdove wrote:
Yeah I saw Steve do this about 15 times at the Magic Castle from the late 80's into the 90's. And he still does it today!!!! Very surprised at Mel Miller. It's too bad. Sorry to hear this Steve. At least enough people know it's your routine.

Andy Amyx

Interesting comment. Mel looks like he is in his 60's and has apparently been doing this for many many year. Exactly how do you know that it is Steve's? I'm not suggesting Steve took it from Mel. Why does everyone automatically assume Mel stole it from Steve. The joke is no proof. Its obvious. I would be interested to know whether Steve feels he originated that line or simply hear something similar elsewhere and played with it.




Mel Mellers is about 45 years old, he's actually younger than Mr. Spill.

I am not assuming anything, Mel Meller's STOLE that ENTIRE routine lock, stock, and stuffed bird, from Steve Spill. He either stole it directly, or got it from someone whole stole it from Steve Spill.

Watch the youtube video of Mr. Spill performing the thing on national TV over 20 years ago. That performance was lifted IN IT'S ENTIRETY and placed by Mr. Meller's on his latest DVD. It has since BEEN REMOVED from the DVD because it was an OBVIOUS rip off. There is NOTHING to assume. Nothing. It isn't one idea, it isn't about a duck, it was a finished piece that was lifted line for line, move for move. This isn't like the independent discovery of a single move or a line. This is an entire routine.

It would be like someone trying to pass off an entire one act play line for line setting for setting as an independent discovery. That doesn't happen.

There is nothing to assume. Educate yourself by watching both videos and THEN comment. They are identical.

Best,

Dan-
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Zerububle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-13 15:08, Danny Hustle wrote:

Mel Mellers is about 45 years old, he's actually younger than Mr. Spill.

I am not assuming anything, Mel Meller's STOLE that ENTIRE routine lock, stock, and stuffed bird, from Steve Spill. He either stole it directly, or got it from someone whole stole it from Steve Spill.

Watch the youtube video of Mr. Spill performing the thing on national TV over 20 years ago. That performance was lifted IN IT'S ENTIRETY and placed by Mr. Meller's on his latest DVD. It has since BEEN REMOVED from the DVD because it was an OBVIOUS rip off. There is NOTHING to assume. Nothing. It isn't one idea, it isn't about a duck, it was a finished piece that was lifted line for line, move for move. This isn't like the independent discovery of a single move or a line. This is an entire routine.

There is nothing to assume. Educate yourself by watching both videos and THEN comment. They are identical.

Best,

Dan-


Thank you for clarifying Mel's age. He looks older than he is!

With regards to you final comment. It is completely unnecessary to patronise me. I have seen both clips. They are almost identical. The style of comedy is however different and some would no doubt prefer Mel's performance. I make no direct judgement on who is right and who is wrong. My comments are aimed at people who vehemently attack another's character that is, otherwise, spotless.


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Quote:
I am not assuming anything, Mel Meller's STOLE that ENTIRE routine lock, stock, and stuffed bird, from Steve Spill. He either stole it directly, or got it from someone whole stole it from Steve Spill.
Dan-


hi Dan

not to sound bad or fall out with you but which one do you mean- you say out right that mel stole it directly from steve then you say he may have got it from someone who stole it from steve. now if he got the routne (not stole) from someone who stole it from steve and mel didn't know it was steves then he didn't steal it from steve- which means you are out of order.
what I'm saying is- you are making a grave mistake on a forum and acusing someone of being a theif- this is much worse than what you are acusing mel mellors of doing.
I'm not saying that this is the case but it looks that way.
I think it would be good for you to talk to mel first and base you argument on facts.

thank you for listening.

dot
MetalBender
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If Mel got the goose routine from someone who stole it from Steve Spill as you suggest then why would Mel take credit for the routine on the video instead of saying he got it from elsewhere.
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Quote:
On 2008-05-13 16:20, MetalBender wrote:
If Mel got the goose routine from someone who stole it from Steve Spill as you suggest then why would Mel take credit for the routine on the video instead of saying he got it from elsewhere.


that's right- why would mel or most top pros put stolen stuff on to a dvd- mel like another uk magician are being hounded but I do not think that they are guilty.

comedy like magic has stuff which we all do the same- for instance mention a duck and you will come up with jokes like yes mallard and ill put it on the bill- even a child will come up with these even if they not heard them before.

I don't know mel or steve but I think before we are to judge we should find out the facts. but no- some people just steam roller right in and make big prats of themselves as in this case here- and many others.

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Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-13 16:08, dot wrote:
Quote:
I am not assuming anything, Mel Meller's STOLE that ENTIRE routine lock, stock, and stuffed bird, from Steve Spill. He either stole it directly, or got it from someone whole stole it from Steve Spill.
Dan-


hi Dan

not to sound bad or fall out with you but which one do you mean- you say out right that mel stole it directly from steve then you say he may have got it from someone who stole it from steve. now if he got the routne (not stole) from someone who stole it from steve and mel didn't know it was steves then he didn't steal it from steve- which means you are out of order.



Dot,

That theory works to a point, and not to put too fine a point on it but if someone steals my car, and then you steal my car from that person, you have still stolen my car.

Mr. Mellers himself claims that he came up with the entire routine independently. That is an impossibility.

I stand by what I have said and if anyone is out of line it is Mr. Mellers. The routine was removed from the DVD for a reason.

Best,

Dan-
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Quote:
That theory works to a point, and not to put too fine a point on it but if someone steals my car, and then you steal my car from that person, you have still stolen my car.

Best,

Dan-



hi Dan,

your point is also flawed- what if someone stole your car and sold it to me and I didn't know it ws stolen- I'm inocent so are you but the theif wins twice

this also maybe the case- but only mel knows so we are just asuming- you that mel is guilty until proved innocent- me mel is innocent until proved guilty- I prefere my way as this is the way of the law.

dot
Danny Hustle
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[quote]On 2008-05-13 16:46, dot wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-05-13 16:20, MetalBender wrote:
If Mel got the goose routine from someone who stole it from Steve Spill as you suggest then why would Mel take credit for the routine on the video instead of saying he got it from elsewhere.


I didn't really suggest this as I don't believe it for a second. MR. MELLERS claims he came up with it. HIMSELF. That is a lie.

Quote:

comedy like magic has stuff which we all do the same- for instance mention a duck and you will come up with jokes like yes mallard and ill put it on the bill- even a child will come up with these even if they not heard them before.

I don't know mel or steve but I think before we are to judge we should find out the facts. but no- some people just steam roller right in and make big prats of themselves as in this case here- and many others.

dot


Dot,

This is a ridiculous argument. We are not talking about a line we are talking about AN ENTIRE ROUTINE!

This is the same as someone saying they came up with the entire "who's on first" routine by Abbott and Costello independently. IT IS AN IMPOSSIBILITY.

If anyone is making a prat out of themselves it is you. Where is the logic in your argument? It makes absolutely no sense.

There is nothing to Judge, the guy stole an entire routine and released it as his own offering NO CREDIT to the originator of the routine Mr. Steve Spill. There is VIDEO PROOF FROM A TWENTY YEAR OLD NATIONALLY TELEVISED APPEARANCE BY MR. SPILL! THE ROUTINES ARE IDENTICAL! WHAT IS THERE TO JUDGE?

Mr. Spill also performed this on local television almost 30 years ago.

There proof is overwhelming!

If you are sincerely fans of Mr. Mellers it would behoove you to let this argument go as this can only lead to further embarrassment for HIM.

To look at those two routines and claim that they are different in any way isn't stupid, it is a special kind of stupid.

Facts don't lie. The facts are Steve Spill has been performing this routine for nearly 30 years. I do not have any personal ax to grind with Mel Mellers. I enjoyed his first two DVDs tremendously! I think he is a wonderful entertainer. But facts are facts and he got caught with his pants down on this one.

When you decide to release a video or a book to the magic community you are OBLIGATED if for no other reason than to avoid this kind of embarrassment to check and credit.

I am a full time professional entertainer. I have been an entertainer for over 30 years. I have been involved in magic almost my entire life. In ALL of that time I have never seen a more BLATANT piece of thievery than I did when I saw this routine on Mr. Mellers DVD. Magic is NOTORIOUS for all types of theft and underhanded shenanigans. I have seen some doozies in my time but nothing compares to this.

Really, let it go. They took it off the DVD, that satisfied all involved. You are not doing Mr. Mellers any favors by keeping this up, it is ridiculous. Facts are facts and in this case you not only have a smoking gun but you still got the guy standing over the warm body holding it. I'm embarrassed for the guy. As I said, this is not personal for me facts are facts.

Best,

Dan-
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Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-13 17:38, dot wrote:
Quote:
That theory works to a point, and not to put too fine a point on it but if someone steals my car, and then you steal my car from that person, you have still stolen my car.

Best,

Dan-





hi Dan,

your point is also flawed- what if someone stole your car and sold it to me and I didn't know it ws stolen- I'm inocent so are you but the theif wins twice

this also maybe the case- but only mel knows so we are just asuming- you that mel is guilty until proved innocent- me mel is innocent until proved guilty- I prefere my way as this is the way of the law.

dot


No, you are receiving stolen goods. If you ever buy a stolen car...you will know it was stolen. Stolen cars are not sold in car lots. People who buy stolen goods are not innocent. As I said, the argument is moot because Mr. Mellers HIMSELF claimed total originality. HE credited NO ONE.

That makes him a liar and a thief, end of story.

I was trying to be a gentlemen about it but if you want to argue your ridiculous point, there you go. It's moot, it didn't happen that way ACCORDING TO MELLERS.

That's what I get for trying to be polite about it to avoid the guy further embarrassment. You killed any hope of that, well done.
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Quote:








No, you are receiving stolen goods. If you ever buy a stolen car...you will know it was stolen. Stolen cars are not sold in car lots. People who buy stolen goods are not innocent. As I said, the argument is moot because Mr. Mellers HIMSELF claimed total originality. HE credited NO ONE.

That makes him a liar and a thief, end of story.

I was trying to be a gentlemen about it but if you want to argue your ridiculous point, there you go. It's moot, it didn't happen that way ACCORDING TO MELLERS.

That's what I get for trying to be polite about it to avoid the guy further embarrassment. You killed any hope of that, well done.


hi Dan

calm down- I was not arguing whether or not mel was a thief I was refering to your claims and the way you shout your mouth off.

of course people buy stolen cars without knowing that the are not stolen- it happens all the time- false plates and numbers are changed- paperwork is forged- it is big business so you are just so so wrong and stupid. you are not only stupid you have insulted many people who have been victims of such crimes

look if you wanna keep mouthin off and insult me fine but I made some points which you said were not possible but you see my job is about this very subject and it is not rediculous for innocent people to buy stolen cars you idiot- you can go on shouting your big mouth off but it is you that's making a fool of yourself and trying to character kill another magician before even contacting them- have you contacted mel?

keep up the good work

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Quote:
If you are sincerely fans of Mr. Mellers it would behoove you to let this argument go as this can only lead to further embarrassment for HIM.



I am niether a fan of both and I wll leave it- it just gets to me that you called someone a theif but without contacting them- but I guess that you are good buddies with mr spill so you are standing up for him- fair play to you for the buddy boy bit and all that stuff- I do not think that it was me who embarrased mel- just read back through to your rants- what got to me was you saying he was an out right theif and he stole this directly from steve then said that he may have got the routine from someone who stole it from steve- hot air and lots of mouth- well bye for now it was a pleasure talking to you.

dot
Danny Hustle
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A thief is a thief. I didn't have to contact anybody to observe the painfully obvious. Mel Mellers stole that routine. That isn't a guess, it is a statement of the obvious.

Calling me an idiot over it does not make you any less wrong in your point. I am not the one blowing hot air, the facts are the facts. There is no other explanation for the proof that is right there in front of you. Again, all of your juvenile, school yard, name calling, doesn't change those facts. It does however prove you don't have much of an argument, and less of an intellect, when that is the best you can come up with.

Try adding 'poopie head' next time. That always makes an argument stronger. What a joke, you are probably a 10 year old. That would certainly explain a lot of your logic. Thanks for the chuckle.
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
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Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-14 02:50, dot wrote:
my job is about this very subject


What job is that? milk monitor in the middle school? Or are you the playground snitch?

What a joke.
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
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