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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Right or Wrong? Steve Spill, not Mel Mellers (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MetalBender
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If Mel got the goose routine from someone who stole it from Steve Spill as you suggest then why would Mel take credit for the routine on the video instead of saying he got it from elsewhere.
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Quote:
On 2008-05-13 16:20, MetalBender wrote:
If Mel got the goose routine from someone who stole it from Steve Spill as you suggest then why would Mel take credit for the routine on the video instead of saying he got it from elsewhere.


that's right- why would mel or most top pros put stolen stuff on to a dvd- mel like another uk magician are being hounded but I do not think that they are guilty.

comedy like magic has stuff which we all do the same- for instance mention a duck and you will come up with jokes like yes mallard and ill put it on the bill- even a child will come up with these even if they not heard them before.

I don't know mel or steve but I think before we are to judge we should find out the facts. but no- some people just steam roller right in and make big prats of themselves as in this case here- and many others.

dot
Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-13 16:08, dot wrote:
Quote:
I am not assuming anything, Mel Meller's STOLE that ENTIRE routine lock, stock, and stuffed bird, from Steve Spill. He either stole it directly, or got it from someone whole stole it from Steve Spill.
Dan-


hi Dan

not to sound bad or fall out with you but which one do you mean- you say out right that mel stole it directly from steve then you say he may have got it from someone who stole it from steve. now if he got the routne (not stole) from someone who stole it from steve and mel didn't know it was steves then he didn't steal it from steve- which means you are out of order.



Dot,

That theory works to a point, and not to put too fine a point on it but if someone steals my car, and then you steal my car from that person, you have still stolen my car.

Mr. Mellers himself claims that he came up with the entire routine independently. That is an impossibility.

I stand by what I have said and if anyone is out of line it is Mr. Mellers. The routine was removed from the DVD for a reason.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Im so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
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That theory works to a point, and not to put too fine a point on it but if someone steals my car, and then you steal my car from that person, you have still stolen my car.

Best,

Dan-



hi Dan,

your point is also flawed- what if someone stole your car and sold it to me and I didn't know it ws stolen- I'm inocent so are you but the theif wins twice

this also maybe the case- but only mel knows so we are just asuming- you that mel is guilty until proved innocent- me mel is innocent until proved guilty- I prefere my way as this is the way of the law.

dot
Danny Hustle
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[quote]On 2008-05-13 16:46, dot wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-05-13 16:20, MetalBender wrote:
If Mel got the goose routine from someone who stole it from Steve Spill as you suggest then why would Mel take credit for the routine on the video instead of saying he got it from elsewhere.


I didn't really suggest this as I don't believe it for a second. MR. MELLERS claims he came up with it. HIMSELF. That is a lie.

Quote:

comedy like magic has stuff which we all do the same- for instance mention a duck and you will come up with jokes like yes mallard and ill put it on the bill- even a child will come up with these even if they not heard them before.

I don't know mel or steve but I think before we are to judge we should find out the facts. but no- some people just steam roller right in and make big prats of themselves as in this case here- and many others.

dot


Dot,

This is a ridiculous argument. We are not talking about a line we are talking about AN ENTIRE ROUTINE!

This is the same as someone saying they came up with the entire "who's on first" routine by Abbott and Costello independently. IT IS AN IMPOSSIBILITY.

If anyone is making a prat out of themselves it is you. Where is the logic in your argument? It makes absolutely no sense.

There is nothing to Judge, the guy stole an entire routine and released it as his own offering NO CREDIT to the originator of the routine Mr. Steve Spill. There is VIDEO PROOF FROM A TWENTY YEAR OLD NATIONALLY TELEVISED APPEARANCE BY MR. SPILL! THE ROUTINES ARE IDENTICAL! WHAT IS THERE TO JUDGE?

Mr. Spill also performed this on local television almost 30 years ago.

There proof is overwhelming!

If you are sincerely fans of Mr. Mellers it would behoove you to let this argument go as this can only lead to further embarrassment for HIM.

To look at those two routines and claim that they are different in any way isn't stupid, it is a special kind of stupid.

Facts don't lie. The facts are Steve Spill has been performing this routine for nearly 30 years. I do not have any personal ax to grind with Mel Mellers. I enjoyed his first two DVDs tremendously! I think he is a wonderful entertainer. But facts are facts and he got caught with his pants down on this one.

When you decide to release a video or a book to the magic community you are OBLIGATED if for no other reason than to avoid this kind of embarrassment to check and credit.

I am a full time professional entertainer. I have been an entertainer for over 30 years. I have been involved in magic almost my entire life. In ALL of that time I have never seen a more BLATANT piece of thievery than I did when I saw this routine on Mr. Mellers DVD. Magic is NOTORIOUS for all types of theft and underhanded shenanigans. I have seen some doozies in my time but nothing compares to this.

Really, let it go. They took it off the DVD, that satisfied all involved. You are not doing Mr. Mellers any favors by keeping this up, it is ridiculous. Facts are facts and in this case you not only have a smoking gun but you still got the guy standing over the warm body holding it. I'm embarrassed for the guy. As I said, this is not personal for me facts are facts.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Im so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
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Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-13 17:38, dot wrote:
Quote:
That theory works to a point, and not to put too fine a point on it but if someone steals my car, and then you steal my car from that person, you have still stolen my car.

Best,

Dan-





hi Dan,

your point is also flawed- what if someone stole your car and sold it to me and I didn't know it ws stolen- I'm inocent so are you but the theif wins twice

this also maybe the case- but only mel knows so we are just asuming- you that mel is guilty until proved innocent- me mel is innocent until proved guilty- I prefere my way as this is the way of the law.

dot


No, you are receiving stolen goods. If you ever buy a stolen car...you will know it was stolen. Stolen cars are not sold in car lots. People who buy stolen goods are not innocent. As I said, the argument is moot because Mr. Mellers HIMSELF claimed total originality. HE credited NO ONE.

That makes him a liar and a thief, end of story.

I was trying to be a gentlemen about it but if you want to argue your ridiculous point, there you go. It's moot, it didn't happen that way ACCORDING TO MELLERS.

That's what I get for trying to be polite about it to avoid the guy further embarrassment. You killed any hope of that, well done.
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Im so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
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Quote:








No, you are receiving stolen goods. If you ever buy a stolen car...you will know it was stolen. Stolen cars are not sold in car lots. People who buy stolen goods are not innocent. As I said, the argument is moot because Mr. Mellers HIMSELF claimed total originality. HE credited NO ONE.

That makes him a liar and a thief, end of story.

I was trying to be a gentlemen about it but if you want to argue your ridiculous point, there you go. It's moot, it didn't happen that way ACCORDING TO MELLERS.

That's what I get for trying to be polite about it to avoid the guy further embarrassment. You killed any hope of that, well done.


hi Dan

calm down- I was not arguing whether or not mel was a thief I was refering to your claims and the way you shout your mouth off.

of course people buy stolen cars without knowing that the are not stolen- it happens all the time- false plates and numbers are changed- paperwork is forged- it is big business so you are just so so wrong and stupid. you are not only stupid you have insulted many people who have been victims of such crimes

look if you wanna keep mouthin off and insult me fine but I made some points which you said were not possible but you see my job is about this very subject and it is not rediculous for innocent people to buy stolen cars you idiot- you can go on shouting your big mouth off but it is you that's making a fool of yourself and trying to character kill another magician before even contacting them- have you contacted mel?

keep up the good work

dot
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Quote:
If you are sincerely fans of Mr. Mellers it would behoove you to let this argument go as this can only lead to further embarrassment for HIM.



I am niether a fan of both and I wll leave it- it just gets to me that you called someone a theif but without contacting them- but I guess that you are good buddies with mr spill so you are standing up for him- fair play to you for the buddy boy bit and all that stuff- I do not think that it was me who embarrased mel- just read back through to your rants- what got to me was you saying he was an out right theif and he stole this directly from steve then said that he may have got the routine from someone who stole it from steve- hot air and lots of mouth- well bye for now it was a pleasure talking to you.

dot
Danny Hustle
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A thief is a thief. I didn't have to contact anybody to observe the painfully obvious. Mel Mellers stole that routine. That isn't a guess, it is a statement of the obvious.

Calling me an idiot over it does not make you any less wrong in your point. I am not the one blowing hot air, the facts are the facts. There is no other explanation for the proof that is right there in front of you. Again, all of your juvenile, school yard, name calling, doesn't change those facts. It does however prove you don't have much of an argument, and less of an intellect, when that is the best you can come up with.

Try adding 'poopie head' next time. That always makes an argument stronger. What a joke, you are probably a 10 year old. That would certainly explain a lot of your logic. Thanks for the chuckle.
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Im so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
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Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-14 02:50, dot wrote:
my job is about this very subject


What job is that? milk monitor in the middle school? Or are you the playground snitch?

What a joke.
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Im so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
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Zerububle
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Assuming Dot is a child you have just been drawn in to a classic piece of transactional analysis. PAC. You are now as child like as you claim Dot to be.

Your observation of the truth does not necessarily make it so. This is why we have a jury system. Individuals can be wrong. So can juries come to think of it. Looking again at Dots original comments it is obvious that he is not suggesting Mel is either guilty or innocent more that YOU seen dogmatic on the issue which does seen a little hostile.

No-one is questioning the similarity. More your unpleasant comments about a fellow performer.

We all work in an area where perceptions are altered. Reality is, when all said and done, only YOUR viewpoint. We all have our own 'map' of the world. Your views were noted. The DVD was altered to appease those who needed it. To continue calling Mel a thief is unpleasant and a tad unprofessional on your part.

Your photo makes you look quite mature, your comments seem incongruent.

Bubble
Danny Hustle
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Bubble,

I let it go a long time ago. Facts are facts. There is NO OTHER explanation. Do you offer a plausible explanation? Because independent discovery of an ENTIRE ROUTINE does not fly.

It gives me NO JOY to accuse the guy of thievery. I am not 'good friends' with Mr. Mellers or Mr. Spill. I am however a professional entertainer that knows first hand what it feels like to be ripped off. I also noticed that there was almost NO discussion on this topic and I felt compelled to put the facts out there for people to see.

I am not accusing Mr. Mellers of thievery, his actions speak very clearly and quite loudly for themselves.

Again, present an alternative explanation that makes any sense whatsoever. I am open to listening. Independent discovery in this particular case however is not possible.

This would be like someone to independently claim they wrote the star spangled banner. It isn't a reasonable possibility.

To be honest, it is obvious to me that Dot is merely a troll and more interested in argument than in Mr. Spill having been ripped off.

I also disagree with your armchair analysis. I actually found it quite humorous being very aware of the PAC model. A this moment, if anything I am exhibiting classic signs of the Adult model by using my life experience, and knowledge, to discern that dot is either a fourteen year old, or merely acting like one. I am also exhibiting classic adult model in my argument about this theft as I am not using anything other than the facts and Mr. Mellers own words to point this out.

Resorting to direct name calling as dot did never makes an argument stronger. I was mere commenting on the humor of that as I found it quite funny. Being called an 'idiot' by someone like dot is hardly upsetting. I was commenting on the moment, and that moment was quite humorous to me. I do hope he calls me 'a big poopie head' sometime in the future as that would almost certainly make my day. Smile

Finally, I made no "unpleasant comments" about Mr. Mellers. I merely stated the facts. Mr. Mellers created this situation, I merely commented on it. I am not to blame for Mr. Mellers' actions. Mr. Mellers' actions however speak volumes for themselves. I am not the one who put out the video with the stolen routine on it. they have removed it from the DVD the smart thing to do. If you are at all interested in Mr. Mellers' reputation the best thing to do would be to let it lie and leave it alone. I am more than happy to do that, but when I am attacked and accused of "blowing smoke" I will respond with the same facts that have appeared in this entire thread. The facts are unquestionable in this particular case. There is no plausible alternative argument.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Im so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
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Zerububle
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Armchair analysis. Slightly patronising as I am soon to lecture once again for the British NLP national conference.

That aside. You talk of facts when all I see is your interpretation of evidence. You make links between this and writing plays, music and song. The clips I have seen are of a fairly basic thumb writer, number divination and a stuffed toy for laughs. Not exactly Shakespeare or Lennon & McCartney.

With the billions of humans walking the earth it IS possible that totally unconnected people could come up with identical material. EVEN word for word. Totally improbable YES but not impossible.

You say that "I am not accusing Mr. Mellers of thievery", the problem is you are. You have repeatedly said that you believe him to be a thief. You MIGHT be right. You might not. At least acknowledge there is room for you to be wrong.

Ideally, you should have contacted Mel personally and found out from him. This forum seems rife with people sharing their opinions of others on a less than positive level.

My Grandma used to say that "Opinions are like buttocks, we all have them but some are best off not aired in public". How right she was. Smile

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If I may put my opinion in.....

It is all well and good that Mr. Hustle is defending Steve Spill. Perhaps, at times, blaspheming Mr. Meller, but, nothing is coming from all this back and forth bickering.
Yes, (if there is proof) that Mr. Meller stole Mr. Spills routine (which I believe has happened) then He owes Steve an apology. This is something that should be taken care of between Steve and Meller not 20 people on the Caf!..

Copying another's routine is wrong no matter how you sugar coat it. What Russ Stevens did was the right thing to do.

I just recently met Steve in Santa Monica and attest for his sincerity. A more honest and respected person you won't find. Does this stealing of his routine bother him? I am sure it does, but again, what can he do? nothing. Except try to get Mr. Meller to stop doing his routine AND!!! MORE IMPORTANTLY go on creating his own material and continue the great work he is doing at MAGICOPOLIS. That's what makes Steve stand out from other people. He is not just a magician doing tricks. He is a creator. And his integrity is intact.

I would still love to hear Mel's version of the story but until then I will still stick up for Steve.

Excelsior
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Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-14 11:05, Zerububle wrote:
Armchair analysis. Slightly patronising as I am soon to lecture once again for the British NLP national conference.

Yet you don't consider your armchair analysis of me patronizing (would it also be patronizing of me to point out to you that the word is spelled patronizing and not 'patronising' as you have spelled it?). I find that humorous. NLP conference...so what? Is that suppose to impress me? I really don't see what that has to do with the conversation other than to drive it horribly off topic.

Quote:
That aside. You talk of facts when all I see is your interpretation of evidence. You make links between this and writing plays, music and song. The clips I have seen are of a fairly basic thumb writer, number divination and a stuffed toy for laughs. Not exactly Shakespeare or Lennon & McCartney.

It was not intended to be. Neither is the star spangled banner. Which is the song I mentioned. What is your point?

Quote:
With the billions of humans walking the earth it IS possible that totally unconnected people could come up with identical material. EVEN word for word. Totally improbable yes, but not impossible.

Not if the odds of duplication are 100 billion to one and there are only 10 billion people on the planet. If you want to involve math in your argument it would be wise to actually DO the math before you try and use it as a defense.

Quote:
You say that "I am not accusing Mr. Mellers of thievery", the problem is you are. You have repeatedly said that you believe him to be a thief. You MIGHT be right. You might not. At least acknowledge there is room for you to be wrong.

As I said, I believe the evidence speaks for itself. I also believe (and I am not alone on this thought) that there is no other REASONABLE explanation. Yes in theory aliens could have come down and implanted that routine in Mr. Mellers' head as he slept. I don't think anyone would believe that story either.

Quote:
Ideally, you should have contacted Mel personally and found out from him. This forum seems rife with people sharing their opinions of others on a less than positive level.

That's your opinion. I personally don't see any reason for me to contact Mr. Mellers. I would think that MOST users here would like to be AWARE of theft. I personally believe making that knowledge public ultimately HELPS the magic community and may deter potential thievery.

Quote:
My Grandma used to say that "Opinions are like buttocks, we all have them but some are best off not aired in public". How right she was. Smile

Yet you seem to have no problem airing yours and attacking me and mine. Again, that's humorous. Mr. Mellers is a member here, I don't see him jumping in to clear it up. I was done with it when it was taken off the video. Attacking me has only required me to further defend my position which is, if you watch those videos side by side there is no way that Mellers' achieved independent discovery. Those are the facts.

Have fun at your NLP conference.

Best,

Dan-



Quote:
On 2008-05-14 12:39, ShaunRobison wrote:
Perhaps, at times, blaspheming Mr. Meller,

You know, I disagree with this. I have no ax to grind with Mr. Mellers. He may be a wonderful chap for all I know. What has happened to Mr. Mellers' and his reputation was his own doing. It has a lot less to do with me and everything to do with HIM putting pilfered material on a DVD and selling it to magicians as his own.

Think about that, please. I am certainly not the only one who has this opinion. I tried to be more politic about it but then I was attacked. My opinion is sound and the facts speak for themselves. I wish Mr. Mellers nothing but the best. Yet the evidence can not be denied. Why should that not be pointed out? I really don't get it. It was theft and if it was done by any number of other people the 'troops' here would be storming the castle with lit torches and farm implements. The entire debate is ridiculous as there is nothing to debate.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Im so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
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Zerububle
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Danny

You seen to have read by posts as an attack at you. Not so. I have never said anything against your view, only that it could be moderated more. My comment about NLP was only to emphasise I am no lay man as you inferred. I am amused by your attitude and patronising is spelt with an s. We should know, we invented the language that you lot still haven't quite grasped. Smile

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Tony Iacoviello
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Curious, "Bubble" since you are an NLP expert and make this comment: "We should know, we invented the language that you lot still haven't quite grasped."

Would you mind explaining what your meaning behind this gibberish is?
Quote:
You seen to have read by posts as an attack at you.



:clownonball:
Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-14 14:16, Zerububle wrote:
I am amused by your attitude and patronising is spelt with an s. We should know, we invented the language that you lot still haven't quite grasped. Smile

Bubble

Sorry didn't know you were from GB that is a horse of an entirely different colour, not much grey area in that case, I stand corrected.

Being called an idiot is a personal attack, that wasn't by you personally, I was speaking in general.

Best...er..I mean cheers,

Dan-


Quote:
On 2008-05-14 14:16, Zerububle wrote:
Danny

My comment about NLP was only to emphasise I am no lay man as you inferred. I
Bubble

Lay people and NLP are not mutually exclusive, but that is another topic entirely and to go off on that tangent would require a new thread I'm afraid. Smile

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Im so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
Elliott Hodges
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I'm not quite sure what to make of this.
However, the need for this post dissappointed me because they way I understand it, Mellers is one of the top cruise ship oerformers around.
I have one of his dvds and the routine that I use from it in my stand-up act always goes down really well.
Larry Davidson
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If you want a really great reaction, you should try performing one of his unpublished routines. Smile


Posted: May 15, 2008 7:03am
------------------------------------
In case it wasn't obvious, I was kidding about someone inappropriately performing his material...although as the saying goes, what's good for the goose is...
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