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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Steve Spill, not Mel Mellers (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Zerububle
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Assuming Dot is a child you have just been drawn in to a classic piece of transactional analysis. PAC. You are now as child like as you claim Dot to be.

Your observation of the truth does not necessarily make it so. This is why we have a jury system. Individuals can be wrong. So can juries come to think of it. Looking again at Dots original comments it is obvious that he is not suggesting Mel is either guilty or innocent more that YOU seen dogmatic on the issue which does seen a little hostile.

No-one is questioning the similarity. More your unpleasant comments about a fellow performer.

We all work in an area where perceptions are altered. Reality is, when all said and done, only YOUR viewpoint. We all have our own 'map' of the world. Your views were noted. The DVD was altered to appease those who needed it. To continue calling Mel a thief is unpleasant and a tad unprofessional on your part.

Your photo makes you look quite mature, your comments seem incongruent.

Bubble
Danny Hustle
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Bubble,

I let it go a long time ago. Facts are facts. There is NO OTHER explanation. Do you offer a plausible explanation? Because independent discovery of an ENTIRE ROUTINE does not fly.

It gives me NO JOY to accuse the guy of thievery. I am not 'good friends' with Mr. Mellers or Mr. Spill. I am however a professional entertainer that knows first hand what it feels like to be ripped off. I also noticed that there was almost NO discussion on this topic and I felt compelled to put the facts out there for people to see.

I am not accusing Mr. Mellers of thievery, his actions speak very clearly and quite loudly for themselves.

Again, present an alternative explanation that makes any sense whatsoever. I am open to listening. Independent discovery in this particular case however is not possible.

This would be like someone to independently claim they wrote the star spangled banner. It isn't a reasonable possibility.

To be honest, it is obvious to me that Dot is merely a troll and more interested in argument than in Mr. Spill having been ripped off.

I also disagree with your armchair analysis. I actually found it quite humorous being very aware of the PAC model. A this moment, if anything I am exhibiting classic signs of the Adult model by using my life experience, and knowledge, to discern that dot is either a fourteen year old, or merely acting like one. I am also exhibiting classic adult model in my argument about this theft as I am not using anything other than the facts and Mr. Mellers own words to point this out.

Resorting to direct name calling as dot did never makes an argument stronger. I was mere commenting on the humor of that as I found it quite funny. Being called an 'idiot' by someone like dot is hardly upsetting. I was commenting on the moment, and that moment was quite humorous to me. I do hope he calls me 'a big poopie head' sometime in the future as that would almost certainly make my day. Smile

Finally, I made no "unpleasant comments" about Mr. Mellers. I merely stated the facts. Mr. Mellers created this situation, I merely commented on it. I am not to blame for Mr. Mellers' actions. Mr. Mellers' actions however speak volumes for themselves. I am not the one who put out the video with the stolen routine on it. they have removed it from the DVD the smart thing to do. If you are at all interested in Mr. Mellers' reputation the best thing to do would be to let it lie and leave it alone. I am more than happy to do that, but when I am attacked and accused of "blowing smoke" I will respond with the same facts that have appeared in this entire thread. The facts are unquestionable in this particular case. There is no plausible alternative argument.

Best,

Dan-
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Zerububle
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Armchair analysis. Slightly patronising as I am soon to lecture once again for the British NLP national conference.

That aside. You talk of facts when all I see is your interpretation of evidence. You make links between this and writing plays, music and song. The clips I have seen are of a fairly basic thumb writer, number divination and a stuffed toy for laughs. Not exactly Shakespeare or Lennon & McCartney.

With the billions of humans walking the earth it IS possible that totally unconnected people could come up with identical material. EVEN word for word. Totally improbable YES but not impossible.

You say that "I am not accusing Mr. Mellers of thievery", the problem is you are. You have repeatedly said that you believe him to be a thief. You MIGHT be right. You might not. At least acknowledge there is room for you to be wrong.

Ideally, you should have contacted Mel personally and found out from him. This forum seems rife with people sharing their opinions of others on a less than positive level.

My Grandma used to say that "Opinions are like buttocks, we all have them but some are best off not aired in public". How right she was. Smile

Bubble
ShaunRobison
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If I may put my opinion in.....

It is all well and good that Mr. Hustle is defending Steve Spill. Perhaps, at times, blaspheming Mr. Meller, but, nothing is coming from all this back and forth bickering.
Yes, (if there is proof) that Mr. Meller stole Mr. Spills routine (which I believe has happened) then He owes Steve an apology. This is something that should be taken care of between Steve and Meller not 20 people on the Café!..

Copying another's routine is wrong no matter how you sugar coat it. What Russ Stevens did was the right thing to do.

I just recently met Steve in Santa Monica and attest for his sincerity. A more honest and respected person you won't find. Does this stealing of his routine bother him? I am sure it does, but again, what can he do? nothing. Except try to get Mr. Meller to stop doing his routine AND!!! MORE IMPORTANTLY go on creating his own material and continue the great work he is doing at MAGICOPOLIS. That's what makes Steve stand out from other people. He is not just a magician doing tricks. He is a creator. And his integrity is intact.

I would still love to hear Mel's version of the story but until then I will still stick up for Steve.

Excelsior
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Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-14 11:05, Zerububle wrote:
Armchair analysis. Slightly patronising as I am soon to lecture once again for the British NLP national conference.

Yet you don't consider your armchair analysis of me patronizing (would it also be patronizing of me to point out to you that the word is spelled patronizing and not 'patronising' as you have spelled it?). I find that humorous. NLP conference...so what? Is that suppose to impress me? I really don't see what that has to do with the conversation other than to drive it horribly off topic.

Quote:
That aside. You talk of facts when all I see is your interpretation of evidence. You make links between this and writing plays, music and song. The clips I have seen are of a fairly basic thumb writer, number divination and a stuffed toy for laughs. Not exactly Shakespeare or Lennon & McCartney.

It was not intended to be. Neither is the star spangled banner. Which is the song I mentioned. What is your point?

Quote:
With the billions of humans walking the earth it IS possible that totally unconnected people could come up with identical material. EVEN word for word. Totally improbable yes, but not impossible.

Not if the odds of duplication are 100 billion to one and there are only 10 billion people on the planet. If you want to involve math in your argument it would be wise to actually DO the math before you try and use it as a defense.

Quote:
You say that "I am not accusing Mr. Mellers of thievery", the problem is you are. You have repeatedly said that you believe him to be a thief. You MIGHT be right. You might not. At least acknowledge there is room for you to be wrong.

As I said, I believe the evidence speaks for itself. I also believe (and I am not alone on this thought) that there is no other REASONABLE explanation. Yes in theory aliens could have come down and implanted that routine in Mr. Mellers' head as he slept. I don't think anyone would believe that story either.

Quote:
Ideally, you should have contacted Mel personally and found out from him. This forum seems rife with people sharing their opinions of others on a less than positive level.

That's your opinion. I personally don't see any reason for me to contact Mr. Mellers. I would think that MOST users here would like to be AWARE of theft. I personally believe making that knowledge public ultimately HELPS the magic community and may deter potential thievery.

Quote:
My Grandma used to say that "Opinions are like buttocks, we all have them but some are best off not aired in public". How right she was. Smile

Yet you seem to have no problem airing yours and attacking me and mine. Again, that's humorous. Mr. Mellers is a member here, I don't see him jumping in to clear it up. I was done with it when it was taken off the video. Attacking me has only required me to further defend my position which is, if you watch those videos side by side there is no way that Mellers' achieved independent discovery. Those are the facts.

Have fun at your NLP conference.

Best,

Dan-



Quote:
On 2008-05-14 12:39, ShaunRobison wrote:
Perhaps, at times, blaspheming Mr. Meller,

You know, I disagree with this. I have no ax to grind with Mr. Mellers. He may be a wonderful chap for all I know. What has happened to Mr. Mellers' and his reputation was his own doing. It has a lot less to do with me and everything to do with HIM putting pilfered material on a DVD and selling it to magicians as his own.

Think about that, please. I am certainly not the only one who has this opinion. I tried to be more politic about it but then I was attacked. My opinion is sound and the facts speak for themselves. I wish Mr. Mellers nothing but the best. Yet the evidence can not be denied. Why should that not be pointed out? I really don't get it. It was theft and if it was done by any number of other people the 'troops' here would be storming the castle with lit torches and farm implements. The entire debate is ridiculous as there is nothing to debate.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
Zerububle
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Danny

You seen to have read by posts as an attack at you. Not so. I have never said anything against your view, only that it could be moderated more. My comment about NLP was only to emphasise I am no lay man as you inferred. I am amused by your attitude and patronising is spelt with an s. We should know, we invented the language that you lot still haven't quite grasped. Smile

Bubble
Tony Iacoviello
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Curious, "Bubble" since you are an NLP expert and make this comment: "We should know, we invented the language that you lot still haven't quite grasped."

Would you mind explaining what your meaning behind this gibberish is?
Quote:
You seen to have read by posts as an attack at you.



:clownonball:
Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2008-05-14 14:16, Zerububle wrote:
I am amused by your attitude and patronising is spelt with an s. We should know, we invented the language that you lot still haven't quite grasped. Smile

Bubble

Sorry didn't know you were from GB that is a horse of an entirely different colour, not much grey area in that case, I stand corrected.

Being called an idiot is a personal attack, that wasn't by you personally, I was speaking in general.

Best...er..I mean cheers,

Dan-


Quote:
On 2008-05-14 14:16, Zerububle wrote:
Danny

My comment about NLP was only to emphasise I am no lay man as you inferred. I
Bubble

Lay people and NLP are not mutually exclusive, but that is another topic entirely and to go off on that tangent would require a new thread I'm afraid. Smile

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
Elliott Hodges
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I'm not quite sure what to make of this.
However, the need for this post dissappointed me because they way I understand it, Mellers is one of the top cruise ship oerformers around.
I have one of his dvds and the routine that I use from it in my stand-up act always goes down really well.
Larry Davidson
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If you want a really great reaction, you should try performing one of his unpublished routines. Smile


Posted: May 15, 2008 7:03am
------------------------------------
In case it wasn't obvious, I was kidding about someone inappropriately performing his material...although as the saying goes, what's good for the goose is...
Danny Hustle
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LOL!

Larry, thank you for the much needed levity!

I wish everyone well, I hope this is the end of it, and in the future I'm sure we can look forward to great things from all of those involved.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
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Joe M. Turner
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Today I was contacted by Danny Hustle with regard to the Steve Spill duck routine as it relates to my positive review of Mel Mellers' new dvd in Genii. I do not visit the Magic Café regularly anymore; the only web forum I read consistently is the Genii Forum and I had not seen this issue discussed there.

I have contacted Richard Kaufman to let him know of my plan to do some investigation and submit an addendum to my review.

Thank you, Danny, for bringing this to my attention.

Best,
Joe M. Turner
...
Regards,
Joe M. Turner
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Larry Davidson
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Joe, I'd be happy to talk to you if you'd like. I worked at the Brook Farm Inn of Magic with Steve in the 80's and personally witnessed him develop and tweak the routine. PM me if you'd like.

Best, Larry
Amyxdove
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A goose may be a poke in the arse, but theft of intellectual property is a kick in the butt.

Andy Amyx

On 2008-04-22 02:12, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-04-21 12:18, Christopher Williams wrote:
And to add that Rob James routine is a brilliant handling, and just brought a smile to my face the first time I saw it!

Does it use a goose?
Andy Amyx


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Amyxdove
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Christopher Kavanagh said: Does it use a goose.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A goose may be a poke in the arse, but theft of intellectual property is a kick in the butt.

Andy Amyx
Andy Amyx


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Joe M. Turner
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After being in contact with both Steve Spill and Mel Mellers, I have submitted an addendum to Richard Kaufman to appear in the Genii Speaks column of the next issue.
...
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Joe M. Turner
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Stevethomas
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Well...looks like I came late to this party. I corresponded with Steve Spill today on the Café PMs about an unrelated subject, and, having mentioned that I've owned his material on VHS (does that tell you how long I've had it?) for years, he asked if I had read this thread and thought I might make a comment. I've seen the first 2 (I think it's the first two...the Mind DVDs) of Mel Mellers DVD products, and absolutely loved the material and presentation. The difference in the British humor (or is that humour?) takes some getting used to, as does the handling of an audience, and it's members, but it's hilarious. Having seen the Steve Spill compilations from years ago on the long VHS tapes..they're fantastic!

Now..., on to the similarities...I can't speak of the Mel Mellers duck/goose material, because I haven't seen it. I do know that Steve was performing this routine long, long ago...I don't know the respective men's ages and I certainly cannot come up with a solution, but, if Mel Mellers agreed to remove this routine from the DVD, that's truly honorable of him. I've been a fan of Steve Spill's creativity and style for a long time, and, although I don't know him personally (as many Café members do)...but hope this problem can be worked out amicably without more tossing of the "thief" word.

These days, I don't believe anyone would release material that is known to be of someone else's creation, the instant transfer of information would only lead to almost instant accusations of theft. Everybody would know in a matter of minutes.

Hoping to someday meet my other favorite performer (met Harry Anderson a few times for dinner, and lots of drinks in NOLA)..Steve Spill...

Steve Thomas
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And...now that someone has send me a brief clip of Mel Mellers duck/goose routine, I would have to agree that there is just too much similarity in both the effects and the movements to be coincidental. Love watching Steve do that duck, too!

Steve
Joe M. Turner
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For those who do not get Genii, please note that I submitted an addendum to my review. This is what appeared in Genii Speaks in the July 2008 issue.

Quote:
Department of Inevitable Corrections: Joe Turner writes, “In the last issue, I gave a positive review to Mel Mellers’ Undiscovered Wonder DVD. Yesterday, I received an e-mail from Danny Hustle calling my attention to the “Mindreading Puppet” routine on the disc. Mr. Hustle pointed out that this routine bore more than a passing resemblance to a popular routine of Steve Spill’s, and sent me a link to a video of Mr. Spill performing this on television about 20 years ago. He also linked me to discussion on The Magic Café where the issue was being debated. The Spill routine—and I admit with some embarrassment that I had never seen it or heard of it before now—is a signature piece of his and there were plans already in the offing to release the routine on an upcoming DVD. I immediately contacted both Mr. Spill and Mr. Mellers to get their statements on the situation so that I could provide an addendum. Mr. Spill and Mr. Mellers both claim to have been performing a puppet/thumbwriter-based comedy mentalism routine for 20 years. (In Mr. Spill’s case, almost 30 years.) Mr. Spill’s claim does, to the best of my knowledge and research, predate Mr. Mellers’ and is backed up by a preponderance of evidence, both from television appearances and from many other magicians who saw him perform this routine. My best judgment tells me that this is a variant of Mr. Spill’s original routine and should not have been included without both a credit to him and, more importantly, his approval. The situation has, fortunately, already been resolved. The producer of Mr. Mellers’ disc, Russ Stevens, has recalled Undiscovered Wonders and is reissuing them without the routine.
...
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Joe M. Turner
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natmagic
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Wow - the heat is on!! Glad it's sorted out - I have some of the other DVDs produced by Russ Steven's and all of them are first rate - I would say his company is one of the best in this business for putting out professional DVDs for magicians. In all the ones I own by Russ, the performers always give credit where it is due.

I ended up purchasing Mel Mellor's DVDs after hearing so much about him on this chat, and seeing a short clip on youtube. In all honesty, putting aside the duck issue - this guy is one of the funniest acts I've ever seen!! His material on his DVD is brilliant - if he were to come to the US I think he'd knock a lot of so called well known comedy magicians off their perch.

I am a HUGE fan of Steve Spill as well, and will be purchasing his goose routine soon.

Back to Mr. Mellors. I buy a lot of DVDs, but I don't use a lot of material from them. If I can get one good routine that will go in my show then I'm doing well. HOWEVER, with Mellor's DVDs I could probably add four or five items. I'm adding his shirt effect straight away - it's pure genius.

Thanks to the guy who originally posted this chat because you've introduced me to one of the best comedy magicians I've 'never heard' about here in the US. I am HOOKED on Mellors and his DVDs contain some wonerful real world working comedy material. I really hope he makes it to the US one day to lecture because he would take this country by storm. He seems like such an honest and very intelligent gentlemen (and obviously well educated) - magic needs more of this type of person!

Thanks
Nat
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