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jiayi Veteran user Canada 313 Posts |
When you do birthday parties or school shows, how do you convince the principle/parents to let you take photos/videos from the show for future promotion purposes? a lot of people are very uptight and sensitive about this when children are concerned. Who has the rights to the photo/videos?
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zimsalabim Special user Orlando Floirda USA 520 Posts |
Ask them if you can use it if they are ok with it I would get a release. If not don't do it pretty cut an dried actually. Never use any without such permission. Not even if the parents say go ahead. I have seen some get burned pretty good by doing that.
Joe Zimmer
"The Second Greatest Magician in the World" Who is the Greatest? Everybody else! Borrowed with respect from the late Great Eddie Fechter Owner of the Forks Hotel Zimsalabim Orlando Florida |
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todd75 Inner circle 1277 Posts |
I was told by an attorney that if you are at a private event (by invitation) that you must get permission with signed release forms. If you are at a private event and people are there on their own accord, you are free to use whatever you want. I am assuming this is true since it did come from someone with a law degree!
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TrickyRicky Inner circle TrickyRicky 1653 Posts |
You can't use anyone picture in your advertisement unless you get written permission.
Verbal permission will not stand up in court. Most parents usually ask if I don't mind them taking pictures or video.The fact that they hired me for the party does not give them the right do take pictures of me.It goes both ways. I never say no. I even encourage them to video the performance. TrickyRicky |
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Lyndel Inner circle wrote the theme to the TV show COPS! 1623 Posts |
If it's a public event on public property it's not necessary.
Example: An NFL game constantly shows shots of the audience. They don't have people scurrying around getting everyone who may have been in camera range to sign a release... Lyndel |
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TedLashley Regular user El Campo, TX 197 Posts |
So, this means that every magician who has any video at all posted anywhere that shows kids enjoying his school or day-care show, has to get a signed release from each kid? or each parent? or each teacher? Surely no one does this... ?
TED |
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TrickyRicky Inner circle TrickyRicky 1653 Posts |
Hi Ted and Lyndel.
I have to give enough notice to the Library if I'm going to tape the show. They then have the parents sign an agreement to allow their child to be taped. The schools and Day Cares also ask not to tape the children. I live in Canada, it maybe a bit different in the USA. TrickyRicky. |
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TedLashley Regular user El Campo, TX 197 Posts |
TrickyRicky:
Thanks for your input... appreciate that. I'll see if anyone from US responds. TED |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Ted,
I think it would be about the same here in the USA. I own a daycare center and while I do have permission to video the kids with security cameras at all times, and even take photos, I couldn’t legally give you permission to use photos of the kids, that would need to come from the parents. Most parents are tickled to see their child’s photo in the local newspaper, but putting it on the internet, or releasing it to someone they don’t know is a different story. Play it safe and get written permission from the parent. Anyone else can't give it to you, not even the child. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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The Awesome One Regular user Gold Coast, Australia 174 Posts |
I think the issue is what you are using the photo/video for. Newspapers and public events like TV at sporting events are not looking to profit from your image. However if you are using the images/video for marketing your business, then your using that to profit your business and you would need a model release form. I think this is where the legal dilema is. However this is not the issue that parents are concerned about, they are more worried about pictures of their kids being on the internet and being used by who knows who for who knows what.
I've found that once I have talked to parents and explained what the images are to be used for they are OK, some get a kick out of their child being on the website, and I know a lot of the kids get a big kick out of it.
Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat.
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TrickyRicky Inner circle TrickyRicky 1653 Posts |
A friend of mine got permission from a customer to use some of the pictures taken at a party. When the other parents herd about it, they were not too pleased.
It so happened that my friend had to dump all his material that was already done for the coming year. They requested that all should be shredded. Even the parent who gave permission changed her mind and wanted her child picture taken out. TrickyRicky. |
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TedLashley Regular user El Campo, TX 197 Posts |
Thanks to everyone for your input and suggestions! It's always best to be sure and safe about things...
I don't even use photos or videos of kids form any of my shows in my advertising yet, so it was a hypothetical question for me. I hope this information will help others who have the same questions... TED |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
It is legal for anyone to operate a camera or camcorder* on any one else. But it is illegal for that operator** to use it to make any kind of money with that photo or video unless a "Model Release" is signed. If every clear and visible person on the picture/video is seen but did not sign a model release, that person can sue the operator. The parents sign a "Minority Model Release" if it is for a child under 17. For private houses, public buildings, horse races, pets, etc a "Property Release Form" must be signed.
It is better to give some money (any amount is ok) to that person for being on your picture of video as they sign the "Model Release." That will make it more stronger because you bought their permission to use it. There is no turning back. If the picture has no "Model Release" or "Property Release", but is not used to make any type of money or make you popular, it will be no problem. *The camcorder must be in open view, not hidden. **If the operator is working for the media, they will have a "Press Release." They do not need your permission to use your picture/video on tv or the newspaper or any magazine to make money. I record myself at times without getting permission from the school. I might just use it to keep for myself to see how I performed a new trick. If I liked the part of the show where the kid was located and want to use it for money, I would go back to the school to ask the pricipal who is the parent of that certain child so I can have them sign a "Minority Model Release." And I would have the priniplal or someone on the school board sign the "Property Release". To be honest, I do not ask the principal up front. I always have my camcorder in clear open view. The reason is because if the pricipal gave me a "no" answer, I would probably miss a good part of my act by myself, no other person included. |
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TrickyRicky Inner circle TrickyRicky 1653 Posts |
Dynamike, you hit the nail right on the head.
I recall some years back, I was hired to perform at my Dentist 50th birthday. A photographer took many pictures during the performance. One picture had the Dentist on stage with his the bill in lemon. It was a great shot with both of---his expression was priceless. I asked him if he would give permission that I may one day use it in my brochure. He flatly said "no"!, not even for a price. Considering that my family of 6 stuck with him for years, even after he had moved his practice 1 hour drive from my area. I gave it a thought, and eventually change to a Dentist close to where I live. TrickyRicky |
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Stevethomas Inner circle Southern U.S.A. 3728 Posts |
There's also a difference between publishing a pic in a newspaper along with a story and using it with your publicity materials. Then, you're using someone else's image in advertising to promote yourself and make money. Like the difference in playing some music in your living room and using the same song during a show or in a commercial. GET a release. These days, with all the weirdos out there, you never know!
Steve |
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The Awesome One Regular user Gold Coast, Australia 174 Posts |
You can use photos that show you up front and taken behind the kids so that you can not see any of the kids faces but just the back of the audience's heads. Some of these can make nice promo shots
Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat.
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JamesinLA Inner circle Los Angeles 3400 Posts |
I would think that if it was a public place or a public event that no one has the presumtion of privacy and you could do what you want with the pictures.
I have had people send me pictures. When they ask me if they can take pictures / video I always say yes and then add I would love to see them too. Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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Lyndel Inner circle wrote the theme to the TV show COPS! 1623 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-26 19:41, JamesinLA wrote: That is exactly my position as well Jim! Lyndel |
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Brian Lehr Inner circle Edmonton, Canada 1605 Posts |
What about if you purchase the photos from a photographer who was invited to the show by the organizer?
I recently did a show at a library in another community. They invited the local paper to send a photographer. There was about 120 people in the audience, and he took some great shots. After the show I asked if I could purchase some of the photos off him, which I did. So since he was invited to take photos, and I purchased them from him, does that mean I can legally use them? I would think so. Brian |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
I will use a metaphor to help describe this to you. A lot of people speed over the speed limit. They are not suppose to, but do it anyway. People get away with it a lot because no cop was around. A lot of times people (unknown with law) use other people pictures to make money. Some people will know they are doing it illegally, but no one caught them as if no cops were around.
A lot of times people do get pulled over by the cop for speeding. It depends on how the cop looks at it. At times they will not give out a ticket because the one speeding gave a good excuse/lie. So if someone noticed their picture is being used to make money might not be concerned or not know of the law. But some people would neogiate a deal or push forward a law suit. We are not even suppose to play artist music/sings when performing for a paid gig without their permission. But a lot of people do not know about that law. Those who do know it is illegal will take the chance because there is a 1% chance of the professional musician/singing artist finding out about it. If the artist did find out he/she probably would not mind if a magician is performing with his/her song/music at a house party. But when performing with their music/song making big bucks in public, there is a high chance the artist will file a lawsuit. When I was in my early twentys, I was thinking like most of you guys. When I became a professional photographer I learned more. I found out I was wrong about when a photographer takes a picture of anyone, he/she can do whatever he/she wants with it because it is his/her property. For more proof of information read these links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_release http://www.danheller.com/model-release.html |
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