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E.C. Valdemar Veteran user Orange County, CA 301 Posts |
I'm sure one or two or a lot of you know already that PUA means "Pick Up Artist". They know that Day and Night "Game" has different ways of approaching. Same as in Street Magic. I love doing Street Magic/Mentalism. When I first got started the thing I noticed right off the bat was that A LOT of people don't want to "see something" or talk to you. And I also noticed that waling up felt unnatural opening w/ "Excuse me". That just sounds like you want soemthing from them. They've had people come up to them like that a hundred times before. People asking them to sign up for a credit card ot buy candy or ask for money.
Well, I never really gave up on Street Magic and stuck to it and sometimes I'd get people who were intersted and sometimes I wouldn't. But I still wanted to know if there was a way to get people more open to me when I walk up. Then I started learning about the PUA systems. I got to see some of these guys work and approach random people and women. One way that I saw and use now when I'm doing Street Magic is to have a good energy, walk up and smile and confidently say "Hey, you guys seem really fun (or cool). Do you guys like Magic?" If they say "No" I act like David Blaine in his first TV special and act surprised and say "But everyone likes magic". Then things really open up and they will at least talk w/ me. LOL I know I know...it sounds like nothing but it works a lot better then anything I've tried before. What the PUAs say is that by opening w/ a line like "Hey you guys seem really fun" you are in a way telling them how to act. They now think they have to be cool. Otherwise they'll be seen as lame or dull or whatever. Also you are giving them value. You are saying you think highly of them. People like that. Believe me it's a good tactic. Usually when I head out to film my street mentalism videos we're out for 3 hours and only get a handful of people. After I did this we were done in about an hour. Of course it's a lot more then just the words you use. It's your tone of voice and body language. It's your "Vibe". Get that down, too. I hope this helps all my fellow Street Magicians. ~Robert EC
Rob-ing you of your thoughts www.themindofrobert.weebly.com
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snipes New user 69 Posts |
Really great post...
Just something about the opener: Do you think it's wise to start off by saying, "Hey, you guys seem really cool..." and then asking them if they liked magic? She may (I could be wrong) perceive you as just trying to hit on her. I was thinking maybe a less obvious but subtle question like, "Are you easily impressed?" would work...and then go from there. What do you think? |
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E.C. Valdemar Veteran user Orange County, CA 301 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-08-12 20:33, snipes wrote: Good idea. If that feels more natural for you and how you talk, then I think you should do it. Something else I'd like to add too is don't get give up right away. There's been a couple times where I walked up to some people and started a conversation w/ them, and they turned me down. But I kept a real upbeat tone of voice and a smile on my face and chatted a little after. Then someone would say, "You know, I have some friends in the bar here," or something like that. You can usually get to perform for the friends really easy 'cause you've got their buddy introducing you.
Rob-ing you of your thoughts www.themindofrobert.weebly.com
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baggins321 Loyal user United States 223 Posts |
I enjoy the bait hook reel release formula. And one cardinal rule many pua's agree on is to rarely if ever ask permission. This probably comes from the thought process of "Better to ask for forgiveness, then to ask permission". Also, at least with the system I use (venusian arts) all interactions come down to 4 things. Ioi's (indicator's of interest) Iod's (indicator's of disinterest) Dhv's (demonstrations of higher value) and Dlv's (demonstrations of lower value). Before you ask people to invest into the interaction, or before you should give them any kind of compliance test, you should first demonsrtate higher value, and not be needy. This means not approaching them directly and immediately asking, "Excuse me, would you like to see some magic?"
Therefore if I was busking or approaching with the sole intention of doing magic for people, I would probably do something similar to a pua who "peacocks". In magic terms this basically means doing flourishes until somebody notices. Fire magic is good, doing an anti gravity coin with a muscle pass is good. That way they end up approaching YOU. However if you are referring to pua then maybe you mean with regard to seducing women. In this context I would demonstrate higher value with other means like cold reading or routines, then reward them later on if they have good compliance or give me many ioi's, with a magic trick or two. |
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Airave Regular user Germany 137 Posts |
I never open by asking if they want to see a trick
or anything else like that. I prefer to look above their head and ask what that is flying around them. It hits them on so many levels and they never suspect anything because I do it so naturally. When I grab something out of the air they laugh, when I vanish it right in front of them they gasp and want more! Show a coin and ask if they can break it then say "oh thanks, never mind" as you change a 2€ into 2 1€ pieces... Go with the flow and be prepared. Don't ask Show. One of the coolest things about PUA isn't blindly following someone elses scripts, but creating and evaluating you own. Practicing and Calibrating your Style. Always a good thing. And like Slight-of-Hand requires hard work, discipline and evaluation. Be Creative, Open and Practiced! |
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MrAlex New user Indiana 51 Posts |
The "never ask a question where the answer can be a NO" comes from sales.
I think everyone mentions it from Zig Ziglar to the lesser known authors. I agree that it probably got started because of people starting to realize that the odds of failure increase whenever you do ask a question where the answer can be NO (like a permission question). This is what got them to coin the phrase: "Better to ask for forgiveness than to ask permission." |
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Gate New user 4 Posts |
Before I share my thoughts on this, I'd like to give a little background of myself. I’m a dating coach over at Singapore, and I have been doing magic for about 6 years already way, way before I got into the art of seduction (pick up).
Ok, so I’m done with the introduction. Let's move on to my thoughts on this. First of all, you gotta know your purpose and your goal. Is it to share the art of magic to people and, in the midst, practice your skills for magic, or is it to start a conversation with a girl? From this topic itself, I assume it's used to share the art of magic to people. If it's just that, it's pretty easy to go about it. What you could do is to simply say, "Hey, guys, how you guys doing tonight? Do you guys wanna see some magic?" Everybody loves magic, and they would love to watch it. Unless you are being a downright jerk, no one is gonna reject you for that. |
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Airave Regular user Germany 137 Posts |
Cool job you gots there, Gate. ;D
"Do you 'guys' wanna see some magic?" Hmmm....well, maybe sometimes, why not? But you set up expectations that you may or may not fulfill from the start. Based on not only your performance, but their personal experiences or lack of them with magic. I really prefer taking them by surprise. It really adds another, deeper dimension. Do you say, "Hey, 'dude*' wanna see some PUA skills?" and do your dance, or do you say, "Excuse me, miss, but I'm shooting a top model tonight and will be painting her body with chocolate, honey and raspberry syrup. I need a nice soap to wash her up with after. What is a nice soap for ladies? My stylist usually handles these things, but she is on vacation right now..." * Haha, I know, but never did like using male euphemisms for Women, Ladies or Grrrrls. |
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rantaak New user 18 Posts |
Dear god, that's some great pickup artistry right there. A little over the top, but hey.
Anyway, a lot of really good points here. In Michael Weber's (I think) book, he talks about how he approaches people. He's usually at parties of some sort, and just walks up to a group and starts talking to them. Sometimes he'll ask them what they do, etc. (big no-no in PUA, however), and eventually people will start asking him what he does. This is very important. Once they are actually interested in knowing what you do, you have an opportunity to actually say, "Well, I'm a magician!" Weber never goes beyond that point, he waits for them to ask to see something. If they don't ask, he doesn't push it. They obviously aren't interested. I think this is very practical, but the ideas related to "don't ask a question if the answer can be 'no'" seem very powerful, as well as "hey, you guys seem very cool." But I generally wouldn't skip straight ahead to "do you guize want 2 c sum magick?" in fear of sounding too socially inept to actually carry on a conversation without magic. Just my 2.43 cents. |
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Airave Regular user Germany 137 Posts |
Hi, Rantaak and welcome.
Haha, thanks. I actually used that (being a photographer) while shopping. Actually, the request was true- just "top" model a bit overdone. But still. I asked her (a lovely Lady) if she had ever modeled (she said "no"), and then told her to contact me after she lost 4 kilos. Because then, she would then look great to the camera. She did. We still date and stay in contact. She is half my age. We are all ok with that, ok? I don't much like Weber's approach, either. He is asking permission in an awkward way (so it seems) to show his skills instead of just taking charge and doing it. Magic isn't my Profession anyways, more just another way to express myself. It is a tool to use for whatever reasons. As well as an Art in itself! |
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Silvertongue Inner circle One day I will die leaving behind 2426 Posts |
I have used the "What do you do?" line to great effect in the past as a primer for the spec to return the question - remember my purpose to entertain and socialize. I may make some comment, "Is that as boring as it sounds?" And they will say, "Well, what do you do?" "I'm an entertainer..."
Another ruse I have used to devastating effect is the Psychic. This I bring up in conversation and demonstrate. This is my favorite and used every weekend. I hooked up with a guy I met on a PUA forum a couple of weeks ago, and we practiced day game on Hollywood Blvd. It was good times. Taught me a lot. Best advice I can give is get out there and play the Game. It's yours...
For as long as space exists,
And living beings remain in cyclic existence, For that long, may I too remain, to dispel the sufferings of the world. -Shantideva Engaging in the Conduct of a Bodhisattva |
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martin king Elite user 416 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-08-12 20:33, snipes wrote: I feel that you're heading in more of a "closed question" area by asking, "Are you really impressed?...," to which people can say NO = you've been stopped DEAD in your tracks! Instead, the original post was more of a statement/open question. Just something for you think about. |
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Benji Bruce Special user 930 Posts |
Quote:
I would just say, "Perfect. You should never be easily impressed. But what if I told you that I knew you were going to say that? In fact, what if I told you that I know the next word that will come out of your mouth right now...?" And then, go into a routine with my swami gimmick. |
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martin king Elite user 416 Posts |
WOW, that's an excellent response.
I think next time, I'll just keep my mouth shut!!! |
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Benji Bruce Special user 930 Posts |
You shouldn't keep your mouth shut because you were right. Most magicians would get stuck if they just said "No."
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martin king Elite user 416 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-10-01 14:42, Benji Bruce wrote: Mr. Bruce, Thank you, and consider yourself one of my new best friends! (Please take this with the tongue firmly planted in my cheek sense that it's meant.) |
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Aus Special user Australia 996 Posts |
I firstly feel that we need to define what type of street magic we are talking about when we are drawing comparisons in an effort to find approaches in magic that can be used in PUA. Reading between the lines, I feel that we are talking more about the David Blaine strolling style of street magic rather than the parlour busking style.
I feel that difference is important because how both try to attain attention is majorly different. One major difference is that parlour style street magic aims at the masses, where strolling street magic is more individualised (more in line with what PUA tries to do). Busking type street magic does in its initial stage focus on a few individuals in order to build the initial building blocks to what is soon to be a bigger audience, but that attention is only maintained to the point where a bigger crowed is at the level the magician wants and all individuality stops and everything becomes for the masses. Where strolling street magic is only ever concentrated on one or two people at the most. Principles are majorly different, as well. Reading David Grove's book, “Be a Street Magician,” he talks about “a crowd builds a crowd,” which is the principle he tries to depart on his readers in order to help aspiring street magicians build a bigger tip. Where strolling street magic is more in line with is table-hopping (restaurant magic), where similar situations are encountered. You probably try to approach a table during the course of their social interactions, which you have to find a segue way into in an effort to perform some magic for them. Of course there are no-no’s in every situation, such as when the meal arrives or when they're eating their meal, but the founding principle is the same. In terms of open and closed questions some of you have discussed, some magicians have interestingly debated the same question in terms of magic. Should we just walk past with our fire producing book, saying it’s a hot read, or politely introduce yourself as the house magician and ask if they would like to see some magic before their meal arrives? Some magicians have indicated that imposing your magic on them wouldn’t make them very endearing towards you, while others seem to think otherwise. I guess it’s just a matter of personal taste. Maybe restaurant magic could learn something from PUA about IOI’s in that if they did do a self-contained effect (such as the fire book indicated earlier) if they where more observant to who’s IOI’s that were peaked, it may give better indications of who would be more open to see some magic. But that’s just an educated guess. I agree with Gates that a goal needs to be defined here if magic is going to be used. Are we doing magic as tool for PUA, or just for their entrainment? Because if you're simply doing trick after trick, all they're going to see is someone who is showing them some fun stuff and not the true intention of getting the digits or vice versa, whatever the case maybe. If it is for PUA, do one trick and put the rest away and start talking to the girl. If it’s for magic reasons, perform as many tricks as you like. One great thing I found is steering conversations and one of the many great tips described in the Neil Strauss' book, “Rules of The Game,” where he asks you to get three (I think) movie recommendations from three complete strangers. My approach went like this: Me: Nice day, huh? (On a particularly overcast day.) Them: Yeah, great day. You should have got your umbrella. Me: Yeah, the sort of day one should be able to stop home and watch a few movies, don’t you think? Them: Yeah, without feeling guilty about it. Me: You haven’t seen any good ones lately, have you? The above sounds simple enough, but it’s a more conscious way of talking because you’re always thinking beforehand and during how I can steer this conversation and, as you could see, something as innocent as the weather can lead to anything. Anyway, there just some thoughts. Magically, Aus |
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Giacomo Moretti New user 87 Posts |
It is funny that you mention PUA techniques to improve your magic. One of the most influcential people in the PUA world is "Mystery" who used to be a professional magician before he developed his "Mystery method". There seems to be a strong connection between "magic" and "seduction". It seems to work both ways.
I think many of the PUA concept can be used to improve your stage persona and your personal style quite a bit. Look for what "Mystery" and another guy called "David de Angelo" have written. It will certainly be useful. Best, G. |
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Airave Regular user Germany 137 Posts |
Indeed, Giacoma. Masters of Seduction
and Entertainment often share a common space. And yes each can learn (and teach to) from the other. Or the same, as may already be (and prolly is). Oh Wow, this is my 100th post! :D |
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Proxy Veteran user 336 Posts |
I've busked magic a lot and did a segment in the middle of my show--if the crowd seemed hip enough: I'd explain I was going to do a mind reading trick and then pull a girl out of the audience. I'd ask her aloud to write down on a given piece of paper a # she knew well "well, make it your tel #". Then I'd act as if I was earnestly writing something and then mime -do as I do -directions of folding the paper and putting it in my shirt pocket. Feign concentration. Dismiss the girl. Then start into the next effect which has nothing to do with the girl's tel #. Then enjoy the delayed laughter from the audience for making such a cheapshot method of getting a girls tel #. I don't know if I'd do this in the States as it might lose its effect, but it played well for my non agency shows.
On a more legitimate PUA note, I like doing subtle flourishes as "unintentional icebreakers" such as low key one handed cuts while watching the bar tv or continual cigarette vanish/reprods which for some reason seems to invite interest even when done mindlessly gazing at the tube. The times I've done this I actually was just practicing the moves but later realized it was both non invasive and interesting to those in proximity whose sets I broke into. At the time I didn't even know what a set was. I think a fellow magician wingman is a great plus. Again ignoring those around you (Ross Jeffries goes into this with his fake homo pattern though not sure what he calls it) is easily done with a magician wingman as you compare moves and pull in people who are already watching at will. If the magic/mentalism doesn't have kino esculation easily built into it, I don't use it in a situation of PUA. |
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