| Go to page 1 ~ 2 ~ 3 (Next) |
|
|
Experimentalist
Veteran user
333 Posts
|
Posted: Jul 22, 2008 2:32pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZMKTgTiYaU
A fascinating thing about this one to me is the quasi-ritualistic touches. Posing prayerfully with the wand, ringing the bell over the cups as though he were cleansing them, etc. I would be interested to see how a lay audience would react to this kind of presentation.
|
Pete Biro
V.I.P.
14730 Posts
|
Posted: Jul 22, 2008 3:07pm
Some interesting things going on... Looks like the same cups that Shankar Jr. was selling. I liked much of it, the bell and some of the movements.
STAY TOONED... @ www.petebiro.com
|
Levity
Elite user
448 Posts
|
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 10:15pm
Very entertaining...thanks for posting.
G
"I suggest you watch very carefully..."
|
Christopher Rinaldi
Regular user
170 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 2, 2009 8:19pm
This video is very informative for me, but so long to watch...
I'm getting interested in this style of cups and balls. However, I do not find it comfortable sitting in that position. Is it lotus? Anyway, sitting like that ain't for me. However, I would like to perform this trick someday.
The sleights are hard, man. I've tried off and on for half the day. While shopping this afternoon, I was in the thrift store and ran across 6 little matching bowls for $1.29. Of course, I picked 'em right up. They are stainless steel and have, uh, feet, is it?
Man, classic palming these balls is difficult!
Playing with these little bowls is interesting. I find it hard not to resort to using regular C&Bs techniques and sleights.
|
Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
20996 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 3, 2009 12:49am
This fellow competed at the IBM convention in Nashville. He is a very pleasant fellow. Most of the people didn't "get" his routine at all. But, it was very entertaining and educational for me.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
|
sherifmayika
New user
85 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 4, 2009 6:30am
This guy is a killer of many best tricks. I know him personally. He does not invest time to practice tricks. I give him 0.5 marks out of 10. Here is another video, this magician uses a few moves but best moves from original Indian cups and balls routine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv7YNGwtCE8&feature=related
Another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9DPHJV0X8o&feature=related
Here is a far better video. He tries to justify the original routine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTuX_uvm-Qw
I give 4 marks out of 10.
The best routine of Indian cups and balls is in the name of late Indian magician Vazhakkunnam Namboothiri.
Best performer alive is Magician Nanu PP. Here is newspaper coverage on Nanu: http://www.hinduonnet.com/mp/2004/07/29/stories/2004072901780200.htm
I have been researching this topic for last 10 years. I perform it decently. I have studied it from more than 20 magicians. I will release a video on this topic. Looking for good producer like L&L.
There are some moves performed by Vazhakkunnam, which stands above Tommy Wonder's final load methods (in my opinion). (Don't ask YouTube links.)
Sitting is the Pathmasana pose of Yoga. It can be mastered in 3 weeks time.
Sam Dalal sells this cups and balls.
Looking forward to further discussion.
Magician, Kochi, Trivandrum, kerala, bangalore, Calicut, Kannur
Aladin Comadin
0091 9447149449
|
Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
20996 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 4, 2009 12:33pm
Is 'Cheppum Panthum' the Hindi term for cups and balls, or is it some other language, such as Bengali?
Interesting to see the amount of Western technique that has been absorbed into the routine of the fellow who performs the cups and balls on "the Great Indian Magic Show."
BTW, some of us will NEVER be able to master the Pathmasana pose -- not in three week's or three years' time. Trust me on this!
Thanks for posting this material.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
|
sherifmayika
New user
85 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 4, 2009 8:14pm
Hi,
'Cheppum Panthum' is not Hindi. It's Draveedian language, which include all south Indian Languages, Tamil, Malayalam, Kannada, Telungu. Before Arians migrated to India from Old Iran, only Tamil existed as common peoples' language. Sanscrete was not usually spoken language.
Masters of this trick, Vazhakkunnam, Nanu, Prahlad Achraia and the magician performed in the first video, are from southern part of India.
There are two styles of sitting poses in Indian C&B, Rajamura - Padmasana pose. Kakalimura - an easy pose; one can see a magician performing Indian C&B in this pose in the video 'Story of Magic'.
I took only three weeks to master Padmasana pose with the help of a yoga book. It was in childhood. I belonged to an orthodox Muslim group, where magic and yoga are forbidden. Videos of yoga training available on Internet.
Best,
sherif
Magician, Kochi, Trivandrum, kerala, bangalore, Calicut, Kannur
Aladin Comadin
0091 9447149449
|
Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
20996 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 4, 2009 9:02pm
When I was 12 years old, I could sit in that position. But, that's been a loooong time!
If I tried it now, I would tear several tendons and ligaments.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
|
sherifmayika
New user
85 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 4, 2009 11:49pm
I agree that sitting in that pose for 15 minutes is a bit painful if not experienced.
There are some techniques to achieve this pose. There are some basic poses before start practicing Padmasana, which are easier. I am writing this to motivate the western people to perform Indian cups and balls.
Magician, Kochi, Trivandrum, kerala, bangalore, Calicut, Kannur
Aladin Comadin
0091 9447149449
|
Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
20996 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 5, 2009 1:17am
I'm over 60 years old. There is no way that I could possibly get into either of those positions without suffering major physical damage.
Regarding performing Indian cups in the West -- Pete Biro is probably the most adept at this routine of all of the Westerners.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
|
Magic Researcher
Regular user
146 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 5, 2009 2:26am
I like a lot of things about this routine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTuX_uvm-Qw
He has really improved his technique and adopted some Western moves to enhance the routine. I would prefer less talking, though.
Doing these cups sitting on the floor is the natural way of doing things and opens up some nice loading and ditching possibilities.
I find it strange that several of you find the sitting position difficult. I am well over 60 and have no trouble at all with the position. I have sat in this position for as long as I can remember and still do so - often while seated in a chair. I find it most comfortable. It is a natural way to play with children. Do any of you ever get down on their level to play?
MR
Repeating a falsehood often and loudly does not make it true.
|
sherifmayika
New user
85 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 5, 2009 3:20am
Researcher,
This is magician Prahlad Acharya.
Pete Biro,
Why not take part in discussions?
Magician, Kochi, Trivandrum, kerala, bangalore, Calicut, Kannur
Aladin Comadin
0091 9447149449
|
Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
20996 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:19am
Quote:
|
On 2009-11-05 02:26, Magic Researcher wrote:
I find it strange that several of you find the sitting position difficult. I am well over 60 and have no trouble at all with the position. I have sat in this position for as long as I can remember and still do so - often while seated in a chair. I find it most comfortable. It is a natural way to play with children. Do any of you ever get down on their level to play?
MR
|
|
I don't have any children or grandchildren. So, why would I get down on their level to play? I blew my knees out while I was in the Army, so my movements are quite restricted. Not that it's any of your business.
Quote:
|
On 2009-11-05 03:20, sherifmayika wrote:
Researcher,
This is magician Prahlad Acharya.
Pete Biro,
Why not take part in discussions?
|
|
Look at the second post in this thread. If you want to see Pete's comments about the cups and balls, go to the upper right corner of the screen and click on the word [Search]
When the search screen comes up, put "Pete Biro" where it says "search by username", and where it says "Search in" put in "Ever so Sleightly". You will find more than 2,000 posts by Pete. If you want to narrow it to Indian cups, put "Indian cups" where it says "Search by Keywords". Then, you will see many, many posts by Pete Biro on the Indian Cups.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
|
Keith Mitchell
Special user
658 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 5, 2009 10:40am
I am amazed at how they vanish the ball and how they make it appear under a specific cup. I cannot figure it out. Guess I will have to watch those videos again.
One thing that stood out to me more than anything else among all those videos of Indian style C&Bs is the way their hands moved. It's as if they were all taught by the same teacher or something. Makes me wonder what would happen if they were to try the classic Dai Vernon C&Bs routine?
There was one Indian C&Bs video on YouTube that I liked the best where I think he was using 4 cups. His routine was very engaging, and I could watch him again and again.
|
sherifmayika
New user
85 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 5, 2009 11:14am
Madkiki,
Can you please find the link for 4 cups routine?
Magician, Kochi, Trivandrum, kerala, bangalore, Calicut, Kannur
Aladin Comadin
0091 9447149449
|
Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
20996 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 5, 2009 12:09pm
Quote:
|
On 2009-11-05 10:40, madkiki wrote:
I am amazed at how they vanish the ball and how they make it appear under a specific cup. I cannot figure it out. Guess I will have to watch those videos again.
One thing that stood out to me more than anything else among all those videos of Indian style C&Bs is the way their hands moved. It's as if they were all taught by the same teacher or something. Makes me wonder what would happen if they were to try the classic Dai Vernon C&Bs routine?
There was one Indian C&Bs video on YouTube that I liked the best where I think he was using 4 cups. His routine was very engaging, and I could watch him again and again. |
|
Keith:
Watch the 9 minute routine at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTuX_uvm-Qw You will see some interesting snippets from Dai Vernon, Silent Mora and David Williamson.
Penn and Teller did a video a while back in which they showed part of a performance by a fellow who claimed to be a descendant of Luxor Galli Galli, the famous Galli Galli who performed for many years in the US. Of course, Galli Galli did not perform Indian cups. He performed Western cups in an Egyptian outfit. So, the descendant of Luxor Galli Galli also performed Western cups.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
|
Donnie Buckley
Special user
Cleveland, Ohio
597 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 5, 2009 12:27pm
Sherif,
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge of cups and balls - Indian style.
There has been a book written by Lee Siegel, a University of Hawaii professor of religion (and magician) named Net of Magic in which he lives with and travels with Indian magicians.
The book was a very good read and taught me a lot about the culture and history of street magicians in India. I don't believe there has been a lot of English books written on this subject.
Are you familiar with this book? If so, I wonder if you could speak to its credibility.
Donnie
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way.
Rings N Things / RNT2
|
iugefu
Loyal user
220 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 5, 2009 1:18pm
I've read the book and, as a semi-novel, it shouldn't be judged on "credibility".
It's a truly excellent read.
|
Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
20996 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 5, 2009 1:21pm
Any book that is based around a discipline should get as much of the factual material as possible straight. Otherwise, the plot and story line will be damaged.
I once read a novel in which they had Adolf Hitler speaking Yiddish. That kinda messed up the whole thing.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
|
Donnie Buckley
Special user
Cleveland, Ohio
597 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 5, 2009 4:18pm
Net of Magic. Wonders and Deceptions in India is considered to be a scholarly work on the subject, not a novel. Admittedly, it contains some fictional characters, but as I read it, and as it was presented, I assumed it was all based upon the author's actual observations and experience.
I just wonder if Seigel got it right, or did his own perspective skew the subject?
It is a terrific book, but is it an accurate representation of life in a Maslet family?
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way.
Rings N Things / RNT2
|
Pete Biro
V.I.P.
14730 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 5, 2009 7:17pm
OK, HERE I AM... but have not had the opportunity to view the videos referenced above. Will do so.
Enjoyed looking at the videos. My current problem is arthritis. I can no longer do the classic Indian Load of a ball under the cup, having had surgery on both hands... So, I use Indian Cups but more of a Western Routine. Sitting cross-legged on the floor is something else I can no longer do. I have put together a book covering the subject, and will soon release it in print form. If you PM me, I might be able to send a PDF file of the draft of the book. Don't ask if you are none of the above posters. Thanks. 
STAY TOONED... @ www.petebiro.com
|
RiffRaff
Loyal user
256 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 5, 2009 7:45pm
Quote:
|
On 2009-11-05 12:09, Bill Palmer wrote:
Penn and Teller did a video a while back in which they showed part of a performance by a fellow who claimed to be a descendant of Luxor Galli Galli...
|
|
The video is "Penn & Teller's Magic & Mystery Tour". It also features Dr. Siegel mentioned above.
|
sherifmayika
New user
85 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 6, 2009 4:15am
As far as I know, books and videos available on this topic are:
Biro, Pete - The Hindu Cups and Balls
Joseph, Eddie - The Hindu Cups
Branson, L.H. - Indian Conjuring
Hotz, Edwin - The East Indian Cups and Balls
Ilange, P.K. - Indian Cups and Balls
Joseph, Eddie - Indian Cups and Balls
Miller, Charlie - The Indian Cups and Balls
Rink - The Indian Cups and Balls
Sorcar, P.C. - Indian Magic
Stanyon, Ellis - The Indian Cups and Balls
Bamberg, Theo - Indian Conjuring; The Cups and Balls
Steve Dacri - No Filler Vol. 2 (DVD)
And now I add 'Net of Magic, Wonders and Deceptions in India' to this list. Thanks to DDecae. I did not see this book, but I want.
The above said YouTube videos are not complete routine. The listed books and Steve Dacri video cover only the basics of the I C&B.
Today I spoke to magician Nanu, the only magician alive who knows the complete routine. He said original cups and ball routine involves 64 moves. Performance involves a beautiful patter and presentation. The duration is 20-30 minutes. He adds, "what is popular among magicians is that I cut shoted the routine for closeup competition to 8 minutes. that is what Prahlada acharya and Sankar Jr. performs." About the spin vanish and strike vanish he said, "both has a Indian origin and is a little different from western style. for example after both the style of vanish I can show both hands empty."
Yes, in Indian style there are a half dozen techniques to show both hands empty after ball vanish.
In my observation, the new generation have western touch (especially Prahlad acharya).
I know some magicians in India, they produce water, rice, cons, etc., at the climax. There is another interesting move. At the beginning, magician shows five cups and says, "I use only 3 cups now," and keeps two cups away and starts performance with three cups. In between the performance, he swaps these two cups with two of the cups he is using. It will remind you of Tommy wonder loading methods.
I have been collecting all the information available. One they will be packaged in a DVD.
Pete Biro,
Thanks for the PDF offer. I have PMed you.
Magician, Kochi, Trivandrum, kerala, bangalore, Calicut, Kannur
Aladin Comadin
0091 9447149449
|
Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
20996 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 6, 2009 2:41pm
I couldn't detect any difference between the way David Williamson performs the striking vanish and the way the performer in the nine minute video performs it, other than the way he ditched the ball. The same is true of the Silent Mora/Dai Vernon wand spin and the one on the nine minute video (except that Vernon did not drop the wand during his performance). Similar methods for ditching a ball can be used when seated at a table or when performing standing up -- if you know what you are doing.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
|
Michael J. Douglas
Grammar Host
WV, USA
1427 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 6, 2009 8:00pm
I remember when I was 11 or 12 watching, if I remember correctly, Shankar Jr. performing the Indian C&Bs at a convention. It was hard to see because he was at a distance on a raised stage, and he was speaking a different language. I could tell he had skill in what he was doing, and I appreciated that, but it was otherwise very boring to me. I'm glad I've gotten the chance to see these videos. I have a much greater admiration for the Indian C&Bs now, as well as the skill and work involved. 
Michael J.
“Believe then, if you please, that I can do strange things.” --from Shakespeare’s ‘As You Like It’
|
sherifmayika
New user
85 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 6, 2009 8:36pm
Bill Palmer,
There is some western influence in this magician's performance. I guess he started with western cups. The strike vanish may be the same, the spin is not as exactly as Silent Mora. I also become confused because I practiced Vernon spin using Ammar video. Now when performing Indian cups, I forget the original spin.
In the above book list, 'Ilange, P.K. - Indian Cups and Balls' , I have mentioned this magician's name wrongly. The correct name is Ilango, P.K. He is no more, but he has contributed a lot of original tricks and routines to leading magic publications. His comedy newspaper tear is my favorite.
Magician, Kochi, Trivandrum, kerala, bangalore, Calicut, Kannur
Aladin Comadin
0091 9447149449
|
Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
20996 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 6, 2009 8:42pm
Is there a source in print for P.K. Ilango's newspaper tear?
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
|
sherifmayika
New user
85 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 7, 2009 12:57am
Bill Palmer,
I have PMed you, so let us stick this thread to Indian cups and balls.
Magician, Kochi, Trivandrum, kerala, bangalore, Calicut, Kannur
Aladin Comadin
0091 9447149449
|
lint
Special user
Walnut Creek, CA
801 Posts
|
Posted: Nov 7, 2009 2:18am
Here are some more from my file:
Bamberg, Theo - Indian Conjuring; The Cups and Balls Sphinx Vol. 24, No. 7
Branson, L.H. - Indian Conjuring
Hotz, Edwin - The East Indian Cups and Balls Sphinx Vol. 38, No. 3
Miller, Charlie - The Indian Cups and Balls Genii Vol. 33, No. 3
Miller, Charlie - The Indian Cups and Balls Genii Vol. 33, No. 4
Miller, Charlie - The Indian Cups and Balls Magicana
Rink - The Indian Cups and Balls Genii Vol. 29, No. 9
Sorcar, P.C. - Indian Magic Angali Annual
Sorcar, P.C. - Manipulations of the Indian Cups and Balls
Stanyon, Ellis - The Indian Cups and Balls Magic Vol. 10, No. 5
Joseph, Eddie - The Hindu Cups Magic Vol. 3, No. 11
Joseph, Eddie - Original Conception for the Hindu Cups Tops 1962 Trick Annual
Platt, John - Hindoo Cups and Balls
"Oh the clink of cups together..." -Richard Hovey
"Age cannot wither her nor custom stale her infinite variety" -Shakespeare
|
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Indian Cups and Balls Video |
|
|
| Go to page 1 ~ 2 ~ 3 (Next) |
|
![[4]](/forums/images/digits/4.gif)
![[6]](/forums/images/digits/6.gif)
![[3]](/forums/images/digits/3.gif)
![[8]](/forums/images/digits/8.gif)