| Go to page 1 ~ 2 ~ 3 (Next) |
|
|
stephane_arnow
Loyal user
238 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 3:44pm
Hi
did you notice that the Pushinger's Mini Cube Zag is available in Osborne plan? It seems become public domain.
http://hamiltonholtinc.stores.yahoo.net/
|
M-Illusion
Special user
547 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 4:51pm
I had noticed that myself a few weeks ago and was going to bring it up. Other than noticing it, I have no further insight into the availability of the plan.
|
illusionman2
Veteran user
361 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 5:31pm
I wonder if this one will get pulled like he did with his Interlude plans?
|
John1964
Special user
My fence has
529 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 6:47pm
Having seen George at Chalet building one of these, I would strongly suggest NOT buying these plans. You can't even begin to understand the work that's not seen that goes into this illusion. NOT something to be slapped together on the weekend.
John
www.MontrealMagician.com
|
Matthew W
Inner circle
New York
1877 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 7:21pm
I'm interested in finding out if these are legit or not.
-Matt
|
BYUDAD
Special user
716 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 8:50pm
I just bought it and can't wait to start building it. Thanks for the info. 
|
Michael Messing
Inner circle
Knoxville, TN
1243 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 20, 2008 11:38pm
Quote:
|
On 2008-10-20 20:50, BYUDAD wrote:
I just bought it and can't wait to start building it. Thanks for the info.
|
|
I hope you're good a metal work!
|
Bryan Gilles
Quality Control
Northern California
1633 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 21, 2008 12:33am
Maybe Dan Wolfe can shed some light on the legal side of this?
-Bryan
Follow me on Twitter! Stalk me on FaceBook!
Read my blogs on Wordpress!
WWW.BRYANGILLES.COM
|
illusionman2
Veteran user
361 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 21, 2008 5:31am
I bought these plans I figure if they get pulled I will have a collectors' Item.
|
John1964
Special user
My fence has
529 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 21, 2008 8:24am
Quote:
| I just bought it and can't wait to start building it. Thanks for the info. |
|
This is always the first step in stopping the unethical building of knockoffs!!!
Of course:
Quote:
| It's not what you do that makes you successful; it is how you do it.
|
|
, thievery is one way. Good luck.
John
www.MontrealMagician.com
|
AmazingEARL
Loyal user
Tennessee, USA
258 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 21, 2008 9:02am
Paul Osborne does not have permission from Gunter Puchinger (the Mini Kub Zag's inventor) or George Kimery, who holds the exclusive U.S. Manufacturing Rights, which my company licenses from him.
I emailed Illusion Systems requesting an explanation and was shocked by his response. Paul replied that since there is no patent on the Mini Kub Zag illusion (or just about any other illusion out there), he is legally allowed to do whatever he wants with them....draw and sell the plans, or even publish them freely in a magazine if he feels like it. He firmly believes that regardless of who invented it, any illusion without full patent protection is his to exploit as he wishes.
But, Magicians have never relied extensively on legal means to protect their creations because to do so, the inner workings must be made publically available. Thus our community has relied upon ethics instead to protect our secrets. The I.B.M and S.A.M. have a Joint Code of Ethics that directly addresses the issue of Creator's Rights. It's that important.
I don't know why he chose the Mini Kub Zag as his test case. Perhaps because we are a small magic company with few resources and no connections or clout? After all, no other builder is significantly affected by this new publication. If we complain, it'll just be perceived as sour grapes. No one will take us seriously, anyway. He's probably right. Legally, there's nothing we could do to stop him.
Although, if he's successful with this new plan, I can't help but wonder what the next one will be. If Smoky Mountain Magic is on the bottom of the ladder, who is on the next rung?
Osborne has always been held in such high esteem in our field. I've studied his plans since I was a kid. It's disappointing to see someone of his long-standing reputation go down this road.
Dan Wolfe
Smoky Mountain Magic
http://www.SmokyMtMagic.com
"We build AMAZING things"
|
Matthew W
Inner circle
New York
1877 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 21, 2008 9:11am
Darn, I was just about to buy them.
I'm glad I didn't though.
Thanks for coming into this when you did, Dan.
-Matt
|
Jack Murray
Special user
St. Petersburg Fl.
749 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 21, 2008 9:29am
Dan, I for one am behind you in protecting your rights to make a living building something you are licensed to build!! This is total BS and we here on the Café need to get behind you as much as we seem to do so for Copperfield.
Please let us know what we as a community, can do to help.
Jack Murray
Dream Illusions
Jack Murray
http://www.dream-illusions.com
|
illusionman2
Veteran user
361 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 21, 2008 11:00am
I found a video of a very very small Kube Zag on on youTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6y5CteLG_A
what do you think???
|
ClintonMagus
Inner circle
Southwestern Southeast
2919 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 21, 2008 11:04am
It is indeed tiny. It's also too close to the floor for the magician to look comfortable performing it.
|
Michael Messing
Inner circle
Knoxville, TN
1243 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 21, 2008 11:55am
Dan,
Paul has actually been doing this for a long time, although not as blatantly. I remember George Kimery complaining to me that Paul had made plans from some of the illusions he had sold him to use in park shows. While the illusions might have been considered public domain, the specific touches that George (Chalet Magic) had added were not and George said he had not been asked permission to use them.
Michael
|
EsnRedshirt
Special user
Newark, CA
733 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 21, 2008 1:27pm
Hmm... and I just received my latest order from him. I was going to get the "fake" sword cabinet blueprints framed... but now I'm not so sure.
On the tiny cube zag- not only is it tiny, but it was also performed badly. The bottom part slid over without the covering, requiring the magician to push it back in place. (Plus his cape covered much of the action.)
-Erik
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
|
Ace of Spades
New user
Kingsport,TN
23 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 21, 2008 9:13pm
I have bought a couple of illusion plans in the past from Osborne but I won'y buy anything else. And let me just say that there is NO WAY you could build this illusion even close to the quality that Dan Wolfe produces.
|
AmazingEARL
Loyal user
Tennessee, USA
258 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 23, 2008 11:18am
I appreciate the encouragement, folks. But legally, Osborne is in the clear. There's nothing anyone can do. You can't patent something after the fact and he now considers any illusion without a patent to be fair game.
Regardless, I plan to continue the Mini Kub Zag licensing arrangement my company has with Chalet Magic. To me, it doesn't change a thing.
Dan Wolfe/"EARL"
Smoky Mountain Magic
http://www.SmokyMtMagic.com
"We build AMAZING things"
|
EsnRedshirt
Special user
Newark, CA
733 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 23, 2008 11:36am
Dan,
Of course you should continue! Despite plans being available, it's the craftsmanship that matters. Chalet Magic has the experience to build this illusion properly; as any of us who've previously bought Osborne plans can tell you, while they may be pretty good, they still leave a lot of details for the builder to puzzle out on their own.
-Erik
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
|
WayneCapps
Elite user
Charleston, SC
402 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 11:55am
Check out the disclaimer that they just added. It says, "Purchase of this plan does not include manufacturing rights. The Mini Kub Zag was created by Gunther Puchinger, originally built by George Kimery of Chalet magic and licensed to Smokey Mountain Magic ((www.SmokyMtMagic.com) as the sole builder."
http://hamiltonholtinc.stores.yahoo.net/minikubezag1.html
|
magicmarkdaniel
Special user
Bolton, England UK
801 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 1:13pm
If buying the plans gives you no entitlement to build one, why advertise them for sale?
Mark
Mark Daniel
|
ClintonMagus
Inner circle
Southwestern Southeast
2919 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 1:47pm
You can't manufacture them for sale.
|
Matthew W
Inner circle
New York
1877 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 1:58pm
So according to Paul Osborne, you can make one, but not manufacturing them?
If manufacturing rights were sold to Smokey mountain and chalet, technically, it would seem that anyone can build one and not sell it.
I don't think that is what Pushinger intended. I think he wanted it so that if you want one, you have to buy one.
I think that the right way to go would be to buy one from a licensed manufacturer.
Dan Wolfe,
Can you confirm this for us?
-Matt
-Matt
|
ClintonMagus
Inner circle
Southwestern Southeast
2919 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 3:19pm
Matt, I agree with you 100%. As the owner of a legitimate Kub-Zag, I know how much goes into the "guts" of the illusion, otherwise it could be dangerous.
All I was trying to do was interpret what I thought was meant by the disclaimer, in the light of similar statements on other sets of plans.
|
Drew Manning
Special user
Dallas, Texas
914 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 3:32pm
Perhaps someone can clarify something for me.
I know that the favored thing to do is to just buy it from whom ever is the originator or currently holds the rights etc.
I was under the impression from the things I've read here that it's not necassarily bad to buy the plans for something and make it for yourself, with the issue being making and then selling the "unauthorized" item.
Did I miss something some where? I'm not saying that I agree with what happened, just trying to sort it out in my own mind....
I live my life for a layer of ice
Just like those poured by my bartender vice
Any taste of vermouth would be really sublime,
When you have a good martini time!
-The Reverend Horton Heat
|
magicmarkdaniel
Special user
Bolton, England UK
801 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 3:40pm
I'll put money on the fact that Puchinger will not be receiving any royalties from the sale of these plans. Therefore the originator is not benefitting whatsoever. The only gain from the sale of these plans is to Paul Osborne, he is neither the originator nor permitted by the originator to sell them whether for the purpose of building one for yourself or manufacturing on a larger scale. Now if Puchinger had released the plans that's a different story.
Mark
Mark Daniel
|
Matthew W
Inner circle
New York
1877 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 3:43pm
What I am asking is if building rights or manufacturing rights were sold to the current builders.
Building rights would mean only they could make them, manufacturing would mean that only they could make them to sell if someone wanted to buy one premade.
If performance rights were sold as well to be given with the purchased illusions, then it would be useless to build your own. Otherwise, they are technically the only ones that can sell them.
If they are the only licensed manufacturer I would think that is all that was given to them.
-Matt
|
AmazingEARL
Loyal user
Tennessee, USA
258 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 28, 2008 9:02am
Quote:
|
Matthew W wrote: Can you confirm this for us?
|
|
Sorry. I can't confirm anything about the new disclaimer. I'm not certain what it legally says, or what Osborne intended it to mean. You'd have to ask him.
Quote:
|
ClintonMagus wrote: As the owner of a legitimate Kub-Zag, I know how much goes into the "guts" of the illusion, otherwise it could be dangerous.
|
|
I've received a set of these plans, but have not had a chance to sit down and study them, so I can't comment on them yet.
Osborne admitted in an email that he did not have an authorized Mini Kub Zag to draw the plans from. His blueprint is based off seeing the illusion performed, video clips on YouTube and guessing at what the dimensions are to build three of them for his theme park shows.
Quote:
|
magicmarkdaniel wrote: I'll put money on the fact that Puchinger will not be receiving any royalties from the sale of these plans.
|
|
You'd win.
Osborne firmly believes that unless an illusion has full patent protection, it's his to do with as he pleases. Creator's Rights (the backbone of this business) aparently mean nothing to him. He contacted no one for permission before publishing these plans.
I'm almost tempted to stop inventing new props/illusions, if they're just going to end up in an Osborne book.
Quote:
|
Matthew W wrote: What I am asking is if building rights or manufacturing rights were sold to the current builders.
|
|
The announcement advertised in 1992 included the following, "All rights secured from Europe's most popular inventor and builder of illusions, Gunter Puchinger." I've never seen the paperwork. You'd have to contact George Kimery or Mr. Puchinger for details of their transaction, should they choose to divulge them.
Dan Wolfe/"EARL"
Smoky Mountain Magic
http://www.SmokyMtMagic.com
"We build AMAZING things"
|
Matthew W
Inner circle
New York
1877 Posts
|
Posted: Oct 28, 2008 9:25am
I don't want to come off as being rude, but you don't know what rights you got when you obtained permission to build them?
-Matt
-Matt
|
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Mini Cube Zag Plan Osborne? |
|
|
| Go to page 1 ~ 2 ~ 3 (Next) |
![[4]](/forums/images/digits/4.gif)
![[6]](/forums/images/digits/6.gif)
![[3]](/forums/images/digits/3.gif)
![[8]](/forums/images/digits/8.gif)
![[1]](/forums/images/digits/1.gif)
![[2]](/forums/images/digits/2.gif)