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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All in the cards » » A Swindle of Sorts by Paul Curry (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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ejohn
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Just looked up "A Swindle of Sorts" in "Paul Curry Presents". Interestingly, Paul's explanation is confusing, even erroneous, and it does not include the sublety Greg uses in his demo deal. It is a great self-worker, especially with excellent presentation like Greg's.
Turk
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Quote:
On 2009-04-20 08:25, a brown 1968 wrote:

***

Have you seen the version Mick Ayres has in one of his ebooks ?. He uses the same method to compare to a written prediction showing a random set of numbers. The difference between the two is mainly in the presentation and justifcation of the actions.

***


Hi, Andy.

Waht routine of Mick's are you referring to?

Thanks for the info.

Mike
Magic is a vanishing Art.

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Eschew obfuscation.
a brown 1968
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Hello Mike

It is in the ebook Hoodwinks .

I am curious if anybody has used the method for predictions other than numbers/playing cards ??

Andy
Roger Kelly
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Quote:
On 2009-04-17 01:56, Greg Rostami wrote:
Can you tell me a little more about the effect of Mix 'n' Match, and how it's different from the original Curry Swindle?


Ooops - sorry Greg, I missed this one. But I'm afraid I'm not much use to you anyway as, believe it ot not, I don't know the 'original.' The Mix 'n' Match method begins with the magician mixing the cards and then follows with two spectators mixing the cards. There's a very slight discrepancy in the magician's 'demo' but no-one has ever noticed it during my performances. The end result is a ribbon display of cards which matches the previoulsy handed out prediction, and includes a face down card within its ranks. (The reason for this would be obvious to the performer.)
Greg Rostami
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Well,

It's official . . . Predict WILL be the next release from Rostami Magic.

Besides the original handling that you saw on this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSjOA2IiKvo
I have a few surprises that I'll be including on the explanation video . . . stay tunned. I want to release Predict sometime this summer; which means you'll soon be seeing an ad here on the Café.

Here is a link to a hi-res DVD cover:
http://www.rostamimagic.com/predict.jpg

As always, all comments are welcome,
Greg Rostami

Click here to view attached image.
Turk
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Quote:
On 2009-06-05 02:58, Greg Rostami wrote:
Well,

It's official . . . Predict WILL be the next release from Rostami Magic.
***


Greg,

GREAT!! I'll buy it provided that it is not a DRM version.

Best,

Mike

P.S. (I purchased the "Stuck" DVD and I waited in vain for a non-DRM version of Cosmos.)
Magic is a vanishing Art.

This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto.

Eschew obfuscation.
Greg Rostami
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Hi Mike,

There will be no DRM.

take care,
Greg Rostami
bik0z
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Greg, how much will it cost?
My English sucks, I know it. It's probably better than your French anyway...
Greg Rostami
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The download is going to be $4.99
The DVD will be probably $14.99

These numbers may change (but I highly doubt it)

Greg Rostami
ejohn
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Greg, Great trick! Looking forward to the surprises and download. John
Mick Ayres
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Quote:
On 2009-04-22 18:42, Turk wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-04-20 08:25, a brown 1968 wrote:

***

Have you seen the version Mick Ayres has in one of his ebooks? He uses the same method to compare to a written prediction showing a random set of numbers. The difference between the two is mainly in the presentation and justifcation of the actions.

***


Hi, Andy.

What routine of Mick's are you referring to?

Thanks for the info.

Mike


Gentlemen,

I regret that I am coming into this conversation late, but the high-season is here and the resort's schedule is more intense than usual.

Andrew Brown is correct. The minor differences between the original routine 'Howdjadothat?' published in HOODWINKINGS (Book One in the Act-series) and Greg Rostami's YouTube video are only in the presentation. Also, giving a guest the option of further mixing is, unfortunately, not new.

A careful research of effects utilizing Paul Curry's clever 'Swindle Deal' will yield even more variations by myself, Dan Garrett, Eugene Burger, Jim Callahan and Don Theo. For example, Dan Garrett's wonderful presentation is offered as a 'reverse prediction'. In other words, the conjuror rearranges the packet of cards in anticipation of where the guest will 'switch' cards...the end result is a packet back in numerical order. This is repeated two more times under more challenging conditions to the delight of the guest.

Another variation that derives from a shuffled deck in use may be found in my book NOETIC LICENSE (Book Three in the Act-series) under the title "7 Open Predictions...of Sorts".

The Act-series is already available here: http://www.mickayreswares.com

Warm regards,
Mick Ayres
THE FIVE OBLIGATIONS OF CONJURING: Study. Practice. Script. Rehearse. Perform. Drop one and you're done.
moualb
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Quote:
Andrew Brown is correct. The minor differences between the original routine 'Howdjadothat?' published in HOODWINKINGS (Book One in the Act-series) and Greg Rostami's YouTube video are only in the presentation. Also, giving a guest the option of further mixing is, unfortunately, not new.


I am not convinced that the further mixing is an added value.
The idea of the routine structure is that dealing the cards face up and showing that it changes the order helps to create the illusion of the face down dealing.
Repeating the face down deal is not necessary a good idea depending on the audience you perform for.
Greg Rostami
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Hi moualb,
The reason why I ask the audience if they want to deal again is it gives them the illusion of further choice.

As long as the audience believes that they had every free choice possible you've psychologically won.

Here are the key things the audience remembers when they're done:
The magician wrote the prediction before he even brought out the cards.
The cards are shown to be random even before they start.
The magician NEVER touches the cards or the prediction.
The spec KNOWS they had every free choice imaginable.
The prediction is made right in front of them, seems completely random, and it's assumed to be different every time.

Since I always design magic with the ultimate conditions and work to build a method that comes closest to that, here is what this prediction premise would look like if you could do REAL magic:

You write down a prediction and give it to them (CHECK)
You give them cards that are random (CHECK)
They "mix" the cards any way they want (sort of) (CHECK)
They can stop "mixing" any time they want (CHECK)
In the end THE PREDICTION MATCHES PERFECTLY WITH THEIR CARDS!! (CHECK)
And all this happens without the magician ever touching anything, and everything can be examined before and after the effect (CHECK)

Given the above conditions, this routine satisfies all of these conditions with the best method.

Greg Rostami
moualb
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Hi Greg ,

Thanks for the details. My post stated 'depending on the audience'.
This is because some spectators will spot the subtlety.
Greg Rostami
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Hi moualb,
I agree with you, even though I've never been caught.

Let me clarify WHY I've never been caught.
When I do this routine ALL spectators MUST see the convincer phase of the routine before I give them the cards. In fact I will not do the routine if someone walks up in the middle of the performance. The convincer sequence is KEY to the success of this effect.

Also, most spectators stop after the first time mainly because they realize that they DO have that choice of doing it as many times as they want. Hence they just want to see the end of the trick.

thank you,
Greg Rostami
DanGarrett
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I've been doing Swindle of Sorts for almost 3 decades, as mentioned by my friend Mick Ayres. I do it totally impromptu from a shuffled deck (borrowed, even). I openly remove the 13 spades in order (almost!) as I place the cards face down on the table. I miscall the 3 and 4, which are secretly reversed to set up the convincer. But I make sure that the spectators can see me removing most of the other cards from the deck. I totally agree that the 'convincer' phase is the most important part of the trick. After the routine is complete (I use the presentation described by Mick Ayres) I place the stock on bottom of the deck and perform several false shuffles and cuts, retaining the stock. I am now set to perform Lorayne's "Lazy Man's Card Trick" with a method set up in front of the audience, but which is completely invisible to them! After the second phase, a couple of genuine shuffles destoys all the evidence. I came up with this sequence almost 30 years ago. Perhaps others have independently, but I think I put the idea in print in a magazine, and taught it to quite a few magicians.
During my teaching sessions, it became quickly apparent that the participant could completely fool himself by performing the 'switch' of a pair, without being aware at all that it was a false switch. This lead to my letting the spectator do the work in the final part of the swindle routine. So, here again, 'great minds thinking alike.' This makes for a wonderful routine with a powerful pair of effects, which can be presented as pure mentalism if desired, and requires virtually no sleight of hand. It's almost too good to give away!
Yes, I use a robot like Harry Lorayne does, but to spot my name here on the Café. Harry is a master performer, teacher, friend and mentor. I try to emulate him as much as may be possible! He was a tremendous influence on my early studies of card magic, and he is an influence of yours also (like the Professor), whether you know it or not.
Dan Garrett
www.dangarrettmagic.com
SAM National President 1994-1995
MIMC with Gold Star - London
email request to dangarrett@aol.com to receive a free catalog
Turk
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Thanks for that insightful post, Dan. Very much appreciated.

Like others here on the Café, I have been performing this effect for years. For children 6-7 years old or older, I use the effect as the beginning effect at a child's birthday party. Every child gets an opportunity to participate and I always start out with the birthday boy/girl having the first turn and, since it is their special day, I always end with the birthday boy/girl having the last chance to really "mix them up".

I really like this effect. It gets all the kids involved as they shoot up their hand and begin yelling "Pick Me!! Pick Me!" asking to be the next volunteer. All the kids get involved in the act and there is immediate fun and participation by all the kids. The individual "turns" each child gets gives the Moms and Dads plenty of opportunity to take pictures/videos of "their little Johnny or Sally".

I start out by showing the cards are in order and then I do the convincer (face up) and show that the cards are now out of order. I then sectretly "restore" the order by doing a run through face down ("to really mix up the cards"). During the convincer, I will show a "Duck One" and a "Duck Two" example. And, during the effect, I will allow the kids to instruct me to "Deal", or "Duck One" or "Duck Two".

Sometimes, I'll let some of the kids have an additional turn but, in the end, after everyone has had at least one turn--and the birthday child gets the first and last turn opportunities (because after all, it is their special day), I end the effect by saying that:

"This is a special birthday group and I am soooo glad that you ran through the cards exactly "X" number of times (here I insert a number of turns they took or what I can reconstruct that they took), and I sooo glad that Elmer decided to do a duck one, deal, deal, deal when he did (i.e., make this up) and that Charity decided to do a "deal, deal, duck two, deal and duck one" when she did (i.e., make this up also), etc., etc., etc....and I'm soooo glad that the birthday girl did (or did not, as the case may be) take that last turn. Why do I say that?

Because you kids did exactly 8 run-throughs of the cards and did so in the exact order that you did. Had there been one less run-through the cards ("had there been 7 or 9 run-throughs or even 10 run-throughs") or had the cards not been called out in the exact order that you all did, well,..had you not done this in that precise order, the trick definitely would not have worked.

But since you did 8 run-throughs in the exact order that you did, let's see what you did on this special day, on Johnny/Sally's Birthday. Let's see what you did and see if the trick worked...."

Here, I slowly and cleanly turn the cards over and show that they were able to restore the cards back to the original order!! I then count the value of each cards and show each card to the audience and drop it to the table as I slowly begin to run through the cards' order. I pick up cadence at the end and I end with the last two cards held in applause postion as I say:

"You did it!! You magically restored the cards back into their original order. A truly special day and a truly special group of volunteers. Give yourselves a big hand!!"

Well, that's the way I perform the effect. I find that this effect really gets the kids shouting and laughing and participating. Everyone gets involved and Moms and Dads just beam as they see their child having his/her brief "moment in the sun" and as they can take pictures/video of their child's performance. A good time is had by all and the kids are now lossened up and ready to have some fun. On with the magic show.

Best,

Mike

P.S. During the run-through, I sometimes will wince as a child tells me, for instance, "Duck One". I'll do as they say but, as I honor their command, I'll ask them if they are sure ("Are you sure...you sure that you don't want to change your mind"?) And no matter what they answer, I exclaim: "Whew!! (as I wipe my brow with the back of my hand),...I'm glad you did (didn't) change your mind on that one.") If the child then decides to change his mind (to screw me up), I very worriedly and hesitantly do as he instructed and I mumble "Golly, I wish Jimmy hadn't done that; I hope it works out O.K. in the end....I dunno..."
Magic is a vanishing Art.

This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto.

Eschew obfuscation.
Greg Rostami
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Hi Turk,
Thanks for sharing that great routine.

Greg Rostami

P.S. I'll give a little hint about the surprise bonus material.

It's called "43210".

I will not show any demo videos of "43210" because I want to keep it under wraps only for those who'll be getting "Predict"

"43210" is so strong that it might bring up the price of Predict. It's another prediction effect that's been in my repertoire for years. I'm kinda hesitant to tip this one . . . but I've had so much fun with it over the years that I think it's about time for this little baby to go out into the world so that you may have some fun with it also.

Stay tuned . . .
a brown 1968
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Hello Greg on page 1 of this thread you asked the question below:

Now, I have a BIG question from my fellow magicians.

Do you think my take on the Curry Swindle is original enough to be sold for $5 ??

Or is it too close to Paul Curry's original method that I shouldn't release this as a product?

Greg Rostami

Given that several replies have said that there already are existing versions which are predominantly the same such as Mick Ayres .
May I ask what was the purpose of the question if the ebook was to be published anyway? If guys like Mick are credited in the ebook and have given their blessing then great.

regards

Andy
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Hi Andy,

Please understand that this is my version of an old classic. I'm sure you know that there are many magic products of items that have been in the magic fraternity for centuries. For example, I'm sure you'll find many videos and books on the double lift.

There are many ideas and subtleties that Mick Ayres has in his ebook that are brilliant and different from mine.

The routine that you see on the YouTube video is one of my many routines based on this principle. I've been performing that particular routine for almost 20 years. What I'm trying to say is, I'm not stealing any of Mick's ideas.

Over the last 30 years, I've seen many magicians perform their version of the "Curry Swindle" . . . each and every one of them has been very different from mine.

I believe magic is all about subtleties.

Now, are my thoughts and subtleties about this method worth $5?

That's for the reviewers to decide.

Greg Rostami
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