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chrusa Special user Connecticut 736 Posts |
I recently have been in a local magic shop and have heard some VERY interesting theories, conversations, and things that can make some great discussion. One guy brought something up and I was curious as to everyones opinion on a matter like this here. If you are a magician who does card effects and does NOT use gaffed cards at all. You prefer sleight of hand. Why not use a stripper or a marked deck all the time or as much as you can. The reason being is it does not looked gafffed at all, is pretty much examinable, can be made on your own so its not expensive, and you ALWAYS have an out in case something goes wrong. Why would or woudlnt you do this and do you agree/disagree and what are your opinions on this matter?
Thanks,
<BR> <BR>Chris Hrusa |
Rocky Elite user 486 Posts |
Good question...When I do a paid gig,I always use a marked deck. As you already mentioned,it can save ones butt when things go south during an effect.Theres nothing worse than screwing up a trick when the person who is paying good money for the entertainment is watching! True,many purists will argue that the experienced card worker can get him or herself out of a pinch without resorting to a gaffed deck,but I like the extra bit of confidence that I get from having the marked deck....to each his own!I use the deck for all my card work with only two routines which rely on the marks as the backbone of the effect.They both get awesome reactions. Again,purists may argue that the only conclusion that a spectator may come up with as far as how I do those two effects will be that of a marked deck. My response to that;many times Im accused of using a marked deck when Im NOT using one,so this is fairly common reaction from laypeople regardless of what the card effect is. Fortunately,these two effects are structured in such a way that the spec's are lead down paths which don't follow the typical take a card and I'll magically find it routine...
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Expertmagician Inner circle 2478 Posts |
I agree with you.....even though most of the effects that I do have no need for a marked deck. It is always usefuly to have a marked deck in case you want to do something different OR, more importantly, the marked cards sometimes come in handy when you meet an idiot who wants to "challenge" you.
Since they are convinced that you do sleight of hand, a marked deck will throw them for a loop...This is also useful to fool magicians I guess they may think that you are a real magician and are doing real "magic"....But, the odds are that they just believe that you are skilled My main advise is to use the marks and/or strippers sparingly !
Long Island,
New York |
Stevethomas Inner circle Southern U.S.A. 3728 Posts |
We've had discussions about this among local guys. I can do the moves, and when I'm at home, I will practice them. When working for real people, I see NO reason to not use a gaff. A finely-cut, well-made stripper deck is a work of art, and even when handled by people who've seen "them cards that are cut wider on one end" they'll never know. Learn and practice the classic moves, but the spectator won't know the difference in the outcome of the effect, right?
Steve |
Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts |
I would have no problem using marked/stripper decks all the time but for the expense. I often have spectators take and sign cards and I hate to do that with a deck that costs more than $1. (I buy Bicycle decks in bulk from Costco). A frequent performer may go through a lot of decks in a week and if you're paying $3 or $5 or $10 (or more) per pack then that can really add up.
Yes you can mark your own deck but I can set up my stack in about 2 minutes and am ready to roll. Of course, some of the greatest effects you can do are combining a stack with marked cards. And I do use marked cards (in fact, I routinely use 2 different types of marked cards). But I do so sparingly and in combination with other methods that eliminate the possiblity of using marked cards.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
Jon_Thompson Inner circle Darkest Cheshire 2404 Posts |
I decided to specialise in the stripper deck a few years ago. I have normal decks but only to make up IDs and Oracles.
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
RE:
"A finely-cut, well-made stripper deck is a work of art, and even when handled by people who've seen "them cards that are cut wider on one end" they'll never know" Don't kid yourself. A number of times over the years I've had people check to see if it was a stripper deck, reversing cards etc. If it hasn't happened to you yet yet, it's just a matter of time. It's no problem to me as I don't use them. If you use one for close up, don't let people handle the deck. Stripper and Svengali decks are amongst the most widely known gaffed decks with lay folk, but what do you expect when they've been mass marketed for a hundred years? If they know of the decks it is the first thing that comes to mind when they see card tricks. Paul. |
Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts |
I agree with Paul. I don't have as much performance experience as many here but even I have had spectators run their fingers down the length of the deck to make sure there was no stripper principle in play. It's only happened to me twice but that was enough to make me glad I don't normally use strippers. Typically I will add one to a standard deck to make a short card. I find a short card (either a stripper short or corner short) to be invaluable as it simply has so many applications for various effects.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
Expertmagician Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-12-18 13:11, Steven Keyl wrote: You are correct...that is because they are looking for standard "V" strippers. But if you use belly strippers or a stripper deck with fine work, they will not find the gaff unless they are very experienced in using strippers. Bottom line: If you use better quality strippers and/or better quality marks (ie. Juice or Luminous), then you will be safe
Long Island,
New York |
Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
Believe what you will. One day in the future, you'll change your mind
Paul. |
CardMaker Inner circle Ludwigsburg/GERMANY 1063 Posts |
You could use ANY stripper deck as long as no card is put in the wrong way; or should I say: the magicians correct way ;-)
Nothing to feel - although a badly made deck can be seen; although you always can talk about about bad quality control from USPCC; .... where some might agree. To proceed, just reverse the needed cards in front of the spec after he has examinded the deck. This can be done with little misdirection.
CardMaker/Bernd Maucksch
Finest gaffed cards for magicians |
Rocky Elite user 486 Posts |
Paul... eventually,regardless of the effect,the gaff,the routining,the audience management style of the performer, etc, etc. a spectator is going to be "wise' as to how the darn trick works.If I were to change my mind regarding the use of a prop or gaff because I either loused it up somehow or a spec new from prior experience how the trick was done,I would be left with nothing to perform.
Believe it or not there are people who can use a striper or Svengali and NOT get caught. I own a restaurant and have performed for 19 years...many of the gaffed tricks I do for my customers are the very effects that magicians here on the Café discourage other magicians from performing due their assumption of laymen being "overexposed" to the effects.I can tell you this;Ive had some of the best close-up magicians lecture for my magic club as well as perform for my customers at the restaurant. Spectators are going to assume many times that a deck is gaffed regardless if the effect uses pure sleight of hand or a "gaffed to the hilt" deck.The bottom line is to focus on the magic being fun and your personality as the entertainment. Too many magicians today are over-analyzing tricks and what spectators think or think they know. Its a fact that most of the magicians on this site,and many like it, do not perform on a regualar basis. If they did,they would realize how "underexposed" the general public is to magic and that they could probably fool the daylights out of the average person with a dollar tree magic kit and a couple of gaffed decks... |
Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
[quote]On 2008-12-19 12:18, Rocky wrote:
Paul... eventually,regardless of the effect,the gaff,the routining,the audience management style of the performer, etc, etc. a spectator is going to be "wise' as to how the darn trick works.If I were to change my mind regarding the use of a prop or gaff because I either loused it up somehow or a spec new from prior experience how the trick was done,I would be left with nothing to perform." You just need a bigger repertoire :) "Believe it or not there are people who can use a striper or Svengali and NOT get caught." I do believe that and don't recall saying anything to the contrary. I have fooled people in the know with a Svengali deck, including magicians many times. And it does have a lot to do with the performing scenario. However, in a close up, informal scenario IF you let the spectators handle the stripper deck and they check for it you WILL get caught out it's as simple as that. " I own a restaurant and have performed for 19 years...many of the gaffed tricks I do for my customers are the very effects that magicians here on the Café discourage other magicians from performing due their assumption of laymen being "overexposed" to the effects." I agree, very few effects are in actual fact overexposed. Most lay people have rarely seen a real close up magician. However, the effects sold in toy shops and Doller stores certainly are, and I believe even Jean Hugard referred to the Svengali being so back in, oo, whenever Greater Magic was first published. "I can tell you this;Ive had some of the best close-up magicians lecture for my magic club as well as perform for my customers at the restaurant. Spectators are going to assume many times that a deck is gaffed regardless if the effect uses pure sleight of hand or a "gaffed to the hilt" deck. I don't disagree with that at all, though I'm not sure why its relevant. Though usually in my close up card magic the spectator handles or shuffles the deck at some point, that way their suspicions of trick decks are negated. In fact often I tell patrons they can always bring their deck next time they visit and I'll entertain with that. I recall Harry Lorayne may actually request a booker supply him with a couple of decks of cards (unless I'm thinking of someone else). "The bottom line is to focus on the magic being fun and your personality as the entertainment." I agree completely, but that doesn't help you out if a spectator is handling your stripper deck and explaining to people how it works. Which is why I was suggesting initially if you use one don't hand it out. You WILL eventually come across people that will check it if you do. Surely it is more helpful to make people aware of this than suggest it doesn't matter? "Too many magicians today are over-analyzing tricks and what spectators think or think they know." That may be true. But it's also a fact multi millions of people are aware of stripper and Svengali decks. "Its a fact that most of the magicians on this site,and many like it, do not perform on a regualar basis. If they did,they would realize how "underexposed" the general public is to magic and that they could probably fool the daylights out of the average person with a dollar tree magic kit and a couple of gaffed decks..." Many of them may not perform on a regular basis but possibly your assumption is wrong about them, many know they can fool people with gaffed decks, do a search on Invisible Deck postings for instance. There are also plenty of professional entertainers who do visit occassionally and try and offer advice based on their experience. Though some have left after banging their heads against the wall and are not seen these days. Paul. |
Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Yes, decades ago when I was doing table magic, and I was booked to appear at someone's home, party, business meeting, what-have-you, part of my fee/stipulation was to have two decks of cards available for my use, either Bicycle or Tally-ho, and one blue back, one red back. Before that, I pitched Svengalis all over the country, but never used them as a performance "vehicle." But that's my "thing" - I never used gaffed decks, period. Wait, let me "soften" that statement a bit. When I was doing table magic, I did perform the Devano Riing Cards - switched in a half deck in order to do it - and ended with the normal deck, left on the table for the spectator(s) to grab. HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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