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MortenN Veteran user Norway 338 Posts 
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I like David Roth's Shell Coin Across routine and use it. The spectators also like it, why change?
-Morten- |
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts
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On 2009-01-11 17:03, allen_m wrote: Ah but it DOES require re-handling - which is what I said in my previous post, allen: Quote:
"...constant re-counting (or re-handling)..." After the first coin "travels", Roth takes "one" of the remaining three (the nested ]) into his right hand in order to facilitate the next transposition - re-handling #1 After the second coin "travels", Roth takes "one" of the remaining two (the nested ]) into his right hand in order to facilitate the next transposition - re-handling #2 This re-handling of the coins is what I was referring to that is common with many SCA routines (but is not necessary). I'm a proponent of Ortiz's "No Contact Condition" (Strong Magic, p. 67-69), and I believe if it's possible to avoid openly handling the nested coin each time [with the other hand] immediately prior to its transposition then you will have a stronger effect. The Roth version [linked above] fails Ortiz's "No Contact" test and is weakened because of that failure. Does this mean that version is no good? Not at all; I'm sure virtually any layman would be fooled by it. But it does mean that it's not as strong as it could be, and that is what I stated in my previous post. There are stronger versions of the SCA out there - although the ones I favor are currently unpublished. TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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MortenN Veteran user Norway 338 Posts
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Thomas Wayne, If you are talking about the routine on this video : http://vaude.tv/time-to-be-awesome-episode-05.html
this is not correct at all. Quote:
On 2009-01-11 18:40, Thomas Wayne wrote: He don't touch the sh**l before he "travels" coin number three, and after that he only thouch the sh**1 one time more. In this routine you will not hear the "revealing sh**l noise" I don't say more, buy the routine from David Roth if you like it...I do 
-Morten- |
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts
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I really like Jon Allen's version from his Spectator's Don't Exist DVD. Although all of the stages take place in the spectator's hands, he only uses three coins so the routine doesn't drag, and the last stage is the only one in the closed fist. Seems to get great reactions. And he lets the spectators examine the coins before the routine.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts
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On 2009-01-11 23:05, MortenN wrote: I believe you are mistaken. At around 14:30 or so he sets two coins down on the table and then apparently reaches over to allow his right hand to take one of the two remaining coins. In this action (14:35) the hands come completely together [and a coin is unsh**led and dropped into a loose finger p**m in the right hand]. To make matters worse, the hands then separate with one coin in each hand before the coin that will supposedly "travel" is replaced in the left hand. This completely qualifies as what I am calling "re-handling" in the above posts, and it is this type of weakness that prevents the routine from being as strong as it can be. I'm glad you like the routine. I don't, but that is because I believe there are stronger versions out there. Thomas Wayne
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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MortenN Veteran user Norway 338 Posts
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On 2009-01-12 03:17, Thomas Wayne wrote: Thomas Wayne, have you this routine from David Roth on any DVD etc., or are this only guessing from you? -Morten- |
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts
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On 2009-01-12 10:18, MortenN wrote: Yes, MortenN, I have this routine; this is not guessing from me. The routine from Roth, with the EXACT handling seen in the above linked video, is at least 25 years old. But, for whatever reason, you are obviously missing my point. Anytime, in any hand-to-hand transposition effect, that your hands come together there is a point of weakness. The actual fine points of the sleights involved are irrelevant. Suppose, instead of a sh**l, a magician had a way for a coin to REALLY travel by pure magic between the hands. But now suppose that in order for this magic to happen, the closed fists had to touch together for a few seconds. Even though the transposition would be accomplished through real magic, the effect - from the viewpoint of the audience - would be weakened because of the need to hold the fists together. The audience may very well say, "Wow, he's really good at sleight of hand. I couldn't even see him sneak that coin from one fist to the other!", but it's unlikely they would think it was genuine magic. So let me ask you a question: do you have a copy of Darwin Ortiz's "Strong Magic", or are you at least familiar with his "No Contact Condition" essay? Do you understand why bringing the hands together and re-handling the coins between phases weakens the effect? TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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Rizzo Inner circle East Coast 3349 Posts
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Good points.
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rutabaga Inner circle Toronto, Canada 1283 Posts
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Anytime, in any hand-to-hand transposition effect, that your hands come together there is a point of weakness. Not if there's sufficient motivation there isn't. |
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MortenN Veteran user Norway 338 Posts
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On 2009-01-12 12:57, Thomas Wayne wrote: Okay, take a lock at your DVD and you will see you have wrong description of the routine. Your text description are not like the routine on my DVD from David Roth we are talking about in this thread! Maybe my DVD not are 25 years old, and David have make a better routine.
I am not trying to make a discussion, only emphasize a little mistake. -Morten- |
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts
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On 2009-01-12 15:34, MortenN wrote: The "little mistake" is all yours, MortenN. I'm sorry you can't understand what I'm saying, but I'm not wrong about how the routine is accomplished and I'm not wrong about Roth bringing his hands together at each phase. I am, however, done arguing with you. Believe whatever you want. TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts
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On 2009-01-12 14:53, rutabaga wrote: Okay. So is it your position that "sufficiently motivated" repeated contact between the two hands [in a transposition effect] is JUST AS MAGICAL as it would be if the hands remain several feet apart and never came close to each other? Equal strength of magic? TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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taller8 Inner circle Olympia, Washington 1087 Posts
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Hi TW,
Do you feel a Translocation effect is better then? I know John Mendoza on his "MY Best' DVD feels the Translocation effect is the best coin trick you can do. Since the coins are in rows, and the hands are separated, it does look more like real magic to me then a standing coins across routine. |
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Kjellstrom Inner circle Sweden, Scandinavia, Europe 5203 Posts
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I do D. Roth´s fine routine and it works very well in real life, sure.
I have done it many times for laymen and they love it. Many times they think its real magic because they think you have coins in your sleeves, even if you work in a t-shirt...(that is funny) The fourth coin is a killer in D. Roth´s routine. Its very difficult for the spectator to remember all details - they mostly remember that the coins just transposed in that particular effect. First time I saw Roth´s Coins Across routine I was almost freaking out (and, Im a magician) |
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Bobby Forbes Inner circle virginia beach, VA. 1569 Posts
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On 2008-12-26 20:09, Eric Jones wrote: One word...INSANE! I saw this live at a lecture. You keep saying to yourself, "you've got to be kidding me". Definitely looks like real magic. Probably one of the most visual, impossible coins across I've ever seen either in person or on video. And the best thing is, it's done in the spectators hands. What more can you ask for. Great routine eric, great thinking too 
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts
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Where do you find the Impossible Coins Across routine? Is that on Menage Et Trois?
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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rutabaga Inner circle Toronto, Canada 1283 Posts
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It's in Eric's "Fingertips (Part 1)" notes....
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MacIrish Regular user 142 Posts
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Eric,
How does Impossible Coins Across compare with your new "SVCA"? Which also involves the spectator? Michael |
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts
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Thanks, Rutabaga!
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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rutabaga Inner circle Toronto, Canada 1283 Posts
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MacIrish, Impossible Coins Across is gaffed, SVCA is not.
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Posted: Jan 11, 2009 10:03 pm 
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