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Clayman Loyal user New Jersey 243 Posts |
Hi guys,
I just ordered Richard Kaufman's "Basic Card Technique" and "On the Pass", and was wondering what your views and opinions are on these dvd's. Am I on the right road here, or should I have purchased something else to get me going in the right direction? While I do not consider myself as having "newbie" status in card work, I do feel that I need to have a more professional touch and look while working with cards. If these would not be your selections, what do you think would be the best visual (dvd or tape) to accomplish my goal? Thank you all for your time, Mike
"A flash of silvery light ..and it was gone."
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
There are many things to learn from SEEING RK do the pass - one of which is how to do the pass so that people can see you doing it! You can't go wrong if you approach this material with the right attitude - learning what NOT to do is just as important as learning what to do, and these are stellar examples of what not to do - enjoy!
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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Bonford New user 60 Posts |
pchosse
Haven't seen the tape but now I'm very curious - RK seems to be a polarizing figure. I've seen some claim his technique is tension-ridden and unnatural, others say his passes are wonderful and invisible. What source(s) do you recommend for passwork? Sincerely b |
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saturnin Special user Montreal, Canada 964 Posts |
Bonford wrote:
"What source(s) do you recommend for passwork? " I would strongly recommend the book "The Pass" by Gary Ouellet and its companion video. I have yet to see a bad review of this book!!! For videos: besides the Kaufman video, there is Ken Krenzell's "The Pass" (volume 4). The best advice I could give anyone who wants to learn the pass (in any of its variants) is to find someone proeficient in it (a teacher/coach) to teach them. It is a move that has a lot of small details that are not always well explained on videos, and are easily missed by beginners (I know I did!!!). If you develop bad habits, it will be even harder to re-learn the correct way. Be prepared to spend many hours practicing this elusive sleight! (While a double-undercut can be mastered in less than 5 minutes!!!). My 2 cents. Ronnie Lemieux Montreal Canada
There is no road to happiness,
happiness is the road! |
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Euan Inner circle 1041 Posts |
I agree with psc. Richard Kaufman holds the deck extremely tightly, and his whole body tenses up while he does the move. He does the packet transfer quite fast, but his grip on the deck is bizarre- it offers the least possible cover for the move. Which means he flashes, quite blatantly. I've never seen the "Basic Card Technique" video, so I can't comment.
Ken Krenzel's tape is really the one to go for, when you have the mechanics down and want to see how it's really done! There's an excellent tip in Erdnase regarding the two handed shift, a sleight which is often overlooked. You do not lever up the bottom packet with the right hand. You use the left hand to swivel the top packet around; as the right hand is motionless, there is less to see. --Euan |
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frogman New user Asheville, NC 35 Posts |
Clayman,
Sounds like you did things in reverse- ordered and then asked for opinions. I purchased the "On the Pass" tape when I was beginning to get into sleight of hand magic. I've since found that I seldom use a pass. It's not that it's not effective, or I can't pull it off. It's just that most of the time, I can find a better means to my end; which makes more sense in the effect. If you think you'll be utilizing the pass a lot, it is a good starting point on learning the basics, some different variations, and some subtleties. As for the "Basic Card Technique", I have not seen this. No matter what, enjoy them and have fun using the techniques. Frogman |
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Clayman Loyal user New Jersey 243 Posts |
Well, I guess I will never order before asking again. Thanks for all of your honest comments.
"A flash of silvery light ..and it was gone."
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Mark Martinez Inner circle Wisconsin 1276 Posts |
I have both tapes, and if you are talking about card slights, (IMHO) you're better off with Daryl's Encyclopedia of Card Sleights.
As for the pass, the tape is OK. He shows 12 or 13 type of passes and shifts. There are other, better examples (named above). In any case, be prepared to practice the pass, A LOT. Good Luck!
Magically,
Mark Success comes before work only in the dictionary. - Anonymous |
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Gianni Special user WILMINGTON, DE 993 Posts |
I had both items. Neither was bad, IMO. But I sold "Basic Card Technique" for one reason: I already had Daryl's 8 volume series. The Kaufman video is good, if your intention is to own no other sleights videos. Then you will use the Kaufman tape as your sole source to learn a few sleights, for use in your card magic. But if you move on to a more comprehensive source, you will never use that tape again. I suggest starting with Daryl's series, if you think you really want to study card magic through videos.
The most important thing I got from the Pass video was Kaufman's admonition: you must practice the pass 100 times per night, for one year. I think this is VERY useful information. Had I known this when I bought ECT 35 years ago, I might not have given up on card magic at that time. It's important to have a sense of the amount of effort some things require. Gianni |
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Dave Egleston Special user Ceres, Ca 632 Posts |
This is funny -
These are the ONLY videos I tell new guys to get. This may be the only time I'll ever disagree with our resident card genius, Mr. Chosse. These videos are totally devoid of personality, and only concentrate on the sleights. No nervous giggles, no clever patter. Unlike some of the other videos that are always mentioned, like the "Quick, Easy, and Lazy Way to Other Peoples' Magic". Only sleights. I wish some other people would just break down sleights, and teach. I never want to hear another "Used Car Salesman", trying to teach our youngsters to do magic. Dave |
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cheeto4567 New user 74 Posts |
I don't have the pass dvd, but I do have the "Basic Card Techique" video. Richard does a good job explaining the moves, such as a Riffle Force, Hindu Shuffle, Zarrow Shuffle, DL; and others that I can't remember. However, I found the video to be a little boring; although that is not a major concern. If you have read "Royal Road", you will find that you probably already know most of the material.
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Clayman Loyal user New Jersey 243 Posts |
Dave Egleston,
Ahh..some positive feedback. Now, I don't feel like I did something totally wrong. I really appreciate all of the responses. I have learned quite a lesson here today. This lesson may be worth the purchase. Thanks to all, Mike
"A flash of silvery light ..and it was gone."
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Quote: Dave,
On 2003-05-01 17:51, Dave Egleston wrote: Remember, "When men smile and agree, progress weeps!" Glad to see someone disagrees with me- it allows me to disagree back! You seem to imply that the Kaufman tapes are not entertaining- I found them quite the opposite: hilarious!(Though they may not have been intended to generate this response...) I do agree that all new cardmen should see them. I used them all the time as a tutorial. What not to do is just as important as what to do... Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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bakerkn Regular user 121 Posts |
[quote]On 2003-05-02 12:02, pchosse wrote:
Quote:
What not to do is just as important as what to do... Mr. Chosse, As a slight tangent, who would you recommend watching; in order to study what to do? My initial suggestion is John Carney. Most people frame the move, and even if you don't see it; you can sense it. When Mr. Carney executes the pass, I detect no tension, no tell; and it has whizzed right past me several times. Any suggestions? Kevin |
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Beetroot Loyal user 267 Posts |
I have both these on video. They were the first things I got, to get me into card magic.
As a relative layman at the time, I found them both interesting and informative. I found the pass video particularly impressive. This was about 6-8 months ago. I haven't looked at the pass video for some time, simply because I put the pass on a back burner (there are more useful, and easier, things to learn; in my opinion). However, I have revisited the "Basic Card Technique" video from time to time. My opinion of this is now somewhat split. On one hand, it covers a number of basic sleights to a fair degree- enough to get you going on a number of tricks. However, I don't like the style (it's slow, and the presentation is weird- it doesn't come across as friendly; like Daryl's dvd's. They have the trademark Daryl chuckle associated with them.) I find the "On-the-Pass" video much more friendly and accessible. To put it in a nutshell, the style puts me off. I think the general problem I have with the sleight video is that it doesn't really cover enough for what I need. I say that now that I've progressed, so maybe I'm not being fair. Anyway, that's why I (soon after) bought 5 volumes of Daryl. It's a balance of what your budget is, against what your goals are. As for "On-the-Pass": I'll take another look, to see if I encounter the problems that others have reported. I've not seen the pass performed by anyone else, (Daryl doesn't teach it on the dvd's) so I'm fairly naive in this matter. All the best, Beetroot |
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AlexWong Veteran user 371 Posts |
So to summarize.... only get Kaufman's dvd's if you want to learn what NOT to do? That's the general feel I am getting from this thread.
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mattpuglisi Veteran user New York 321 Posts |
I partially disagree with that conclusion. While it is true that you will learn what NOT to do by watching Kaufman's video "On The Pass", this is not necessarily all you will learn. You will gain valuable knowledge of the mechanics of several different variaties of shifts, and (perhaps most importantly) you will learn that everyone's hands (and overall styles of performance) differ, and in this sense you will never perform the pass as Kaufman does (for better or for worse). What Kaufman does works for him, and by learning why this is you will be able to fine tune your own approach to this sleight, which is essential to acquiring an effective pass.
I, myself, have consumed every piece of information that I could find on this sleight (a list of sources far too numerous to mention here) and I feel that within the context of the corpus of work on the pass, this video has its place.
Lack of invention is the mother of necessity - Robert Nozick
Instagram: @matthewthomas00 |
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-05-02 21:51, mattpuglisi wrote: I would agree generally with the statements above. One exception: "What Kaufman does works for him..." is pretty subjective. I believe he has tells galore, and find it hard to beleive that anyone watching is oblivious to the fact that "something" happened. If RK wants them to suspect that he did something, then you are right, it works for him! Sorry if I appear to be picking on RK, it's just that he did, after all, put the stuff out there for all to SEE! By the way, he's not alone. There are many instances of performers' doing videos and you can see everything (they are not tutorials!). The tapes get raves from the magic fraternity because no one wants to tell the prince that he hasn't got any clothes on. Besides, if we can see it we think we are really good too. Or that we know because we are magicians, privy to special knowledge. There is something bizarre in saying to someone "your shift looks great!" People seem to think it is a compliment, and magicians take it as one! I don't get it - maybe the acknowledgement that you can do a slieght is more important than the results you get if no one knows you did the sleight. That would be true if the trick construction is so poor that the only accolades we CAN get are for the sleight. In other words, the trick has no entertainment value, it is just a means of demonstrating our skill. O.K., O.K., I'm way off topic here, sorry! Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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DJP Veteran user London 391 Posts |
I've heard that Ken Krenzel has hands the size of dinner plates!! And that (so I have been told) it is not advisable to learn the pass from him, unless you have huge hands!
Is this true? Dave
David
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saturnin Special user Montreal, Canada 964 Posts |
It is a fact that Ken Krenzell has indeed HUGE hands. It gives him very good cover when he does a pass. But his tapes are still good to have, as he and Gary Ouellet give good advice.
Ronnie Lemieux Montreal Canada
There is no road to happiness,
happiness is the road! |
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