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doublelift Veteran user 342 Posts |
Ok guys I'm starting to realize RNTII may be gone soon and a fine source of magical aparatus passes into history. Gee I wonder if I could make my own in the future? I have a old 50's lathe in the garage. I bought a set of DVD's on metal spinning that are very informative in general terms. Does anyone know of a source of more magic related information on making cups? Website or training materials?
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Keith Mitchell Special user 799 Posts |
I would like to see what you come up with. Just so you know, copper cups are my favorite.
:) |
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kentfgunn Inner circle Merritt Island FL 1639 Posts |
Riser's site had a grunch of information at one point.
If you don't know how to, or have a source of chucks/forms and a huge amount of design knowledge I think you would have a very steep learning curve. |
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Keith Mitchell Special user 799 Posts |
There is only one way to find out, GO FOR IT!
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Easy to say kiki... but it takes years to learn how to make patterns, spin and work metal and an "old" lathe probably doesn't have the tolerances, etc. You can't compete against the CNC world.
Posted: Feb 20, 2009 12:45pm Not only that, but most spinners I have met are missing at least one finger.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
The best way would be to ask someone who does it. Gary Animal can tell you a lot. Go onto the cupscon.com web site. He tips some of the info there.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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lint Special user Concord, CA 967 Posts |
Im guessing a weekend at a cup spinners home would do you a world of good as for learning.
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
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Keith Mitchell Special user 799 Posts |
About ten years ago I was in the garage having fun with one of my old hobbies "woodcrafting," and one day I was working on this small box using a router table. While I had this little piece that was going through the router it bucked out of place and my finger went straight into the spinning router bit. A very small piece of my finger got chewed and I ended up driving myself to the emergency room. The doctor looked at it and said it was no big deal, just anti-biotics and a band-aid. Scared the heck outa me and my Dad had a heart attack and almost died. Today my dad is doing fine at 88 and still playing tennis and it's difficult to find the scare where I lost a part of my fingernail and whatever was behind it. All my fingers are fine and I can still pick my nose when it needs to be done.
I guess with that kind of experience I have some idea of the dangers, and not just the dangers but cost of equipment and years of learning. Doublelift is right about RNT closing it's doors within just a few days, and he is also right that someone needs to pick up the ball and keep it rolling. It would take a lot for someone to start fresh to be able to do what RNT has done, but I think Doublelift only intends to make cups for himself. Maybe he has what it takes, who knows? If he is good at what he does, then I might just buy a set of C&Bs from him. |
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Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
By all means find a junior college or trade school somewhere to get some serious metal lathe training before trying to spin cups. If that's not available, check with the local High School and see if they have a metal shop program, then contact the teacher about giving you some private instruction. Metal work can be tricky and dangerous.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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professorwhut Inner circle Posts R US sold me 1353 Posts |
I posted a link of a man spinning metal some time ago, you could clearly see he was missing fingers.
After much soul searching about a signature, I decided not to have one.
TG Pop [aka ProfessorWhut] |
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doublelift Veteran user 342 Posts |
Thanks Madkiki
You are pretty much right its only intended to be a hobby interest. My main work is as a aviation technician so I know all about things that can hurt you. I have had a co worker that is a CNC machinist show some interest in learning the craft of spinning. We have access to 2 $70,000.00 Haas machining centers and CNC Lathe but that's not what I want to use. We know we can cut Johnson type cups. We want to learn the old school skills. that's what makes it interesting. Running a program on bar stock isn't very interesting for a hobby. Kent is right Riser has a ton of information on his site. I believe Riser has done everything but nuclear bomb making. The guy must only sleep 7 minutes a day.If you haven't seen all the stuff he is into its worth a look. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
If you can find a copy of the book Kleines Becherspiel Kompendium by Joro, it has photographs of the late Willi Seidl spinning sets of cups. It goes from the blanks all the way up to annealing and treating the finished cups.
There are also some good books and videos on the subject.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Magic Researcher Elite user 406 Posts |
Doublelift;
James Riser put out a CD-ROM on metal spinning that clearly showed the steps in spinning cups. He may still offer it. I heard that he was working on an expanded version in DVD format explaining even more fully how his cups are made including his new cork and cups effect. Better yet .. attend one of his cup workshops. From what I have heard they are by invitation only for 3 people. The group designs a set of cups and each participant gets to spin his own set in aluminum. He may not offer them anymore. MR
Repeating a falsehood often and loudly does not make it true.
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ringmaster Inner circle Memphis, Down in Dixie 1974 Posts |
Quote: When are you going to print your translation ?On 2009-02-20 15:51, Bill Palmer wrote:
One of the last living 10-in-one performers. I wanted to be in show business the worst way, and that was it.
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Ethan Orr Regular user Minneapolis 163 Posts |
This brings up an important point: Once RNT2 is gone, where does everyone go to get their cups?
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ringmaster Inner circle Memphis, Down in Dixie 1974 Posts |
Quote: e-Bay, the prices will be great.On 2009-02-20 22:53, Ethan Orr wrote:
One of the last living 10-in-one performers. I wanted to be in show business the worst way, and that was it.
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
They may not be gone. The people may go, but remember they are hoping to sell all the tooling, jigs, patterns, etc. So, some enterprising person could take over where they left off.
There are a lot of incredibly good metal workers around. I have had cups made that the quality is as good as any, and Joe Porper, Johnson, Owen, and others are still in business and can expand their lines if the market will take it.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
In a way, we have been spoiled over the last 5 years or so. We have had several highly competitive cup makers vying for the performer's and collector's dollar. Some have gotten downright insulting in their posts. In less than two weeks, RnT II will cease taking orders. I figure it will be about another month before all the orders get filled. After that, just balls.
It will be a sad day for us out here in cups and balls land. But it was also a sad day when P&L closed, and when Ross Bertram passed away. Someone else will step in and fill the empty spot.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Dave Shepherd Regular user Washington, DC 116 Posts |
I was talking with a friend here in the DC area just last night who expressed an interest in buying RNT2. He expressed frustration at not getting emails answered; I just said "Join the club." I tried to explain to him how busy EJ was fulfilling close-out orders.
If he doesn't pick it up, somebody will, I bet. |
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-20 09:45, doublelift wrote: Well, as someone who has a bit of metal spinning experience, I know you're going to need some metal spinning tools. You're also going to need some sort of book on metal spinning, or two, or even three. OR you might even be able to find a metal spinning instructional video if you look hard enough... like say about 3 seconds on eBay. lol, TW (PS: You might even want to buy a spinning lathe.)
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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