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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Invisible or Brainwave? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MagicMan1957
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Which do you guys think is the better effect? The invisible deck has a single ending, the brainwave deck has the card back color change ending as a kicker. Just wondering.
Adam V
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Invisible without a question.

The invisible deck was actually invented by Dai Vernon but Don Alan popularised the 'invisible' handling.

Vernon really hated the Brainwave deck and thought it was an insult. Having the card face-up provides absolutely no suspense at all, and the different back colour is a very weak climax, weaker even than the face-up card. The having the named card face-down right up until the end provides a great sense of suspense and really makes the effect more startling.

I work in a magic store and we sell both types of decks. The invisible decks walk out the door and we are constantly ordering new ones. The brainwave decks don't even come close as far as a reaction goes.
Adam V - 9 out of 10 dentists recommend him.
MisterE21
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I'm not entirely trying to stir the pot here, I'm just curious...

Don't you think the suspense created by the reversed card is really, in effect, a false suspense?

I, personally, do prefer the ID to the Brainwave. However, I have to believe that any suspense is really gone when the upside down card is outjogged. I mean, shouldn't any self-respecting layperson realize that we wouldn't outjog a card OTHER than theirs?

I mean...I could be WAY over-analyzing here and building on technicalities and semantics, it just doesn't seem like there's any real suspense. It seems to me that the spectators mind jumps from "he can't have my card upside down in the deck" to "how the he** did he do that?" rather quickly...

That being said, I do believe the Brainwave is anticlimatic in comparison...
Your EFFECT is only as good as its AFFECT.
Adam V
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That's a valid question, and I'll give you my opinion. When you reveal one face-up card the audience of course suspects that it is their named card. However due to the impossiblity of such a thing they won't believe it 100%. Their thinking will be along the lines of "I know it's my card, but that's impossible. I know it will be my card but there's no way that's possible."
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the sean
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If it is the 8 card brainwave we are talking about, then I would prefere the brainwave over the invisible deck. If you use good patter to misdirect while showing the backs of the cards the effect on the spectator can be very strong.

Well that's my two cents anyway

Sincerly: Sean

Smile Smile Smile
Riceboi
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ok I am really lost about these decks. Does the invisible deck do 99.9% of the work? Does a random card they pick really turned over without you messing with the deck? I don't see how this works, and yes I plan on buying one, but please someone give me a little info on this mysterious deck...

Thanks
Joe
cootetom
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The deck doesn't do all the work, I'd say the deck does 70%. There is a handling technique and you do need to do some of the work in getting the right card.

But I don't want to say anything to give it away, you'll see when you get it!!

I haven't got the brainwave deck but I love the invisible deck. I agree that there is more suspence with the ID as in BW the card is revealed straight away and just the fact that it is a different color is not that good.

Tom
RayBanks
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My first comment to this thread is that everyone seems to be worried about how it looks and is evaluating that from a magician's point of view.

It's been beat up on other threads and boards but I, personally do not really care a lot whether I can fool a magician--I probably can't. But I can sure entertain others with my effects.

That said I use both decks and like them both for different reasons.

The ID is a mainstay closer for me and stands alone as a routine. No one has ever asked about the cards or anything once the revelation is made. Simply put, it is a killer.

I love the 8-card brainwave as well. The only minus is that it needs some reason for doing. But it really does baffled most spectators.

The Brainwave deck is cool also but I generally do not use it as a stand alone effect. One of my tricks is to use a gag card (52 in 1) to 'predict' a thought of card. After the joke I find the card in a brainwave deck and show the reverse color and it gives a good ending to the joke effect.

Just my $.02.

Smile
-------------
Pick a card, any card...No. not THAT one...THIS one

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ritty360
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MisterE21, that is a little ridiculous. If your not getting good reactions, your presentation sucks. cootetom, Brainwave is also a matter of presentation. I tested this with a friend. His BW presentation and my ID presentation and they are both very good.

Listen guys, it is NOT the deck (which is actually called the Ultra Mental Deck) that make the trick powerful. It is the presentation! I have seen people walk away from a guy doing the Haunted Deck b/c his presentation sucked.

Food for thought...
MisterE21
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I don't remember saying that I didn't get good reactions... I'm just saying that suspense created by an upside down card is not "real" suspense. I do get quite strong reactions with an ID, using a modified presentation similar to Malone's.

Bannon discusses this, I believe, in Smoke & Mirrors; the context is prediction effects. Once a prediction is shown, the audience assumes it will be correct and begins to concentrate on how it is done.

All things being equal, however, I do prefer ID to BW, but that's probably just personal preference.
Your EFFECT is only as good as its AFFECT.
Jason Wethington
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I have found that of the two, the deck a young magi gets first, will be the one preffered. I started out with BW and I have used it almost exclusively since. I did use the ID when I was performing Steve Bedwell's 'Pot Noodle' trick.
Jason
GeorgeG
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Invisible Deck is one of the most visual effects with a gimmicked deck that should appeal to any audience.
Brad Burt
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The emphasis on HOW you present the two decks is different. If you were to perform the Brainwave in the exact same way that you do the Invisible Pack, well, then you get what you deserve. The problem is that MOST magicians have never in fact seen the Brainwave presented properly.

Here is a Readers Digest version of the classic presentation: Magician/Mentalist walks out and brings up ESP, etc. Then,
"Really? Many of you DO believe in ESP? That's great. Tell you what, I'd like to try an experiment in foretelling the future." At this point you take a sealed envelope from your pocket and toss out to someone to watch over. "Thank you for holding onto that for me. Now, let me tell you what is in that envelope: A deck of cards! But, not just any deck. No. Before this show I took that deck of cards and reversed one of the cards! Yes, that's correct in the deck is one face up card and, well something else is special about the card, but we will get to that in a moment." At this point you go through the rigmarole of having a card selected. The envelope is tossed back to you, you rip open and remove the deck. You begin going through deck. As the face down cards move past the suspense builds. The card is found. It is correct. You say, "I know, I really had a 1 in 52 chance of simply being right. Correct? But, what about this, I used a red backed deck of cards, but the card that I put in the deck, has, a BLUE back!"

This is rushed, but you get the idea. The Invisible Deck is a better Close-up deck. It is more immediate, etc. Also, the Brainwave lends itself to the mental routine better.

Best,
Brad Burt
Brad Burt
Jeff Hinchliffe
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Hmm...

Nice presentation for the BW deck, but one MAJOR flaw exists, IMO. You hand the envelope to the spectator, then take it back to remove the cards yourself?? Why?? Why not just let the spectator remove the cards and check themselves? They are already holding the deck. Rather than hand the envelope to a spectator, I'd just set it on the table. This handing back and forth can lead the audience down the right path, that something is happening when you handle the cards.

Just my two cents...

Jeff Hinchliffe
Pick a card, any card...
djvirtualreality
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Quote:
On 2003-05-15 16:13, GeorgeG wrote:
Invisible Deck is one of the most visual effects with a gimmicked deck that should appeal to any audience.


The Invisible Deck really isn't a gimmicked deck. Kinda lol. I mean they can all be examined and used as a normal poker deck. So therefore it really should be considered a gimmicked deck Smile Smile
Life is an illusion, death is reality.
redstreak
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An invisible deck is a gimmicked deck because it can't be examined when you are performing it.

I got both, used and am still using the invisible deck many many times. I never did the brainwave once, I gave it to a magician friend.
Schaden
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Quote:
On 2003-05-15 16:13, GeorgeG wrote:
Invisible Deck is one of the most visual effects with a gimmicked deck that should appeal to any audience.


Why do you think this thing is visual? Have you read the works of David Harkey? That is what I consider visual magic.

Lee
Bill Hallahan
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I prefer the Invisible deck.

Bear with me, and I will eventually get to why I think no one can actually say the Invisible deck is better than the Brainwave deck for another performer. In the first part of this post I will seem to attack the Brainwave deck, but I will get to why I think it is/can be good for some people.

My initial discussion is all from a spectators perspective after viewing both a magical presentation using each of these decks and then a mentalism presentation using each of these decks, i.e. four total presentations.

The spectator thinks, “What the magician is asserting in either the mentalism presentation OR the magical presentation of both these tricks is that he (or she) either had the foresight to turn the card upside down in advance OR he magically turned it upside down. If the magician had the foresight to reverse the proper card, or the magical power to cause the proper card to reverse, then he could clearly have either the foresight or the power to replace it with a different color card.”

From the spectators perspective both effects are impossible. At least in the magical presentation, the color change is a magical effect. In the mentalism presentation, if the performer really predicted the correct card in advance, then he could have signed his name to the card, drawn his favorite animal on the card, etc… and the effect of the card being a different color is no more amazing than just having the prediction correct.

Once the spectator gets the impossibility of the original effect, then anything else seems anti-climactic, which I suspect was Dai Vernon's point. In the mentalism presentation case, the Brainwave deck is no better than the Invisible deck and in the magical presentation case, the secondary effect is weak after a very strong initial effect!

However, this does not make the Brainwave deck bad, and, if it fits someone’s style better, then they should use it. Perhaps they have lots of objects change color in their presentation and want to continue this trend by having the back of the card change color to fit their larger color-changing theme. Perhaps they have a story that requires the card to change color. I am sure there are additional justifications for the Brainwave deck that I can’t think of.

Great magicians do not just do tricks, they entertain, and they make the audience care about what they are doing. The Brainwave deck could be an integral part of a presentation to fill a role that could not be done with the Invisible deck.
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch"
GeorgeG
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When I complemented the Invisible Deck for its visual quality, I was somehow confusing the deck with the Mental Photography Deck. I still prefer the Invisible Deck because the deck handles more naturally to me, since the faces are seen and the selected card is faced down. There is no "visual" display with showing backs only as is the case with the Brainwave Deck and then revealing the selected card as a different colored back probably signals some gimmickry to the spectator.
owen.daniel
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I have performed routines/tricks using these decks and I have generally received better reactions using the Invisble Deck.

:banana: Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile

I think that the Invisible deck has more performance options.

:banana: Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile

It also has the comic potential (having a spectator shuffle an imaginary deck etc.) which is not there for the Brainwave Deck.
Owen
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