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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » "Beyond Counting" by James Grosjean (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

silverking
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The new edition is now available:
http://www.beyondcounting.com/

Some guys who didn't want to pay $900.00 for one of the 1000 first editions on ebay have been waiting near five years for this reprint.

Ed Thorp did the introduction of this second edition.

Has anybody got the new one and care to comment?
Got the old one and care to comment on that?

I don't have either yet, but am pondering whether it would be a good read, and possibly a good upgrade to the very basic (from Darwin Ortiz) plus/minus count I currently use.

The book actually covers a few different games, and is also full of "editorial" material on gambling in general.

Sounds good, but the 2nd edition comes with a retail price of $250.00 (1st was $40.00 retail!), so opinions solicited.
splice
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Had heard that the reason the first edition was so sought out was because of a few tips for the Big Six Wheel. I've also heard that since that publication, you'd be hard pressed and you'd travel a heck of a lot before finding a vulnerable setup. The book is apparently good for casino rats who will move around a lot and may have more opportunities than someone standing still.
silverking
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The rumor mill is saying that Grosjean isn't selling a lot of the 2nd editions at the $250.00 asking price.

A lot of folks remember that it was a $40.00 retail price on the 1st edition and postulating that Grosjean has let the ebay prices over the last few years go to his head when coming up with a retail price on the 2nd edition.

Many are waiting for what they think will be an inevitable drop in price on the second edition.

Reading some of his freely available papers and articles online, Grosjean has a unique and well informed overview of gambling in general, and his writing style is dry and witty (which I find is always appropriate for the subject of gambling).

I'll join those holding off on a purchase and see what happens to that $250.00 price tag.
JasonEngland
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Silver,

I have it. Got home from the lecture tour yesterday and it was waiting for me.

Although I haven't read it yet, I have to say it looks great. Physically, I mean. It's a big, hardbound book with a nice glossy dustjacket. In that respect you won't be disappointed.

Insides look interesting too, albeit a bit dry for most. I'll probably love it, but my tastes run esoteric.

I read the first one as well and found it fascinating. I've even mentioned Grosjean's name here once or twice.

Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
silverking
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Funny you should post that Jason, waiting for the price to drop seemed lame, so I ordered it up a couple of days ago.
JasonEngland
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Don't think you'll be disappointed, considering your interests. Grosjean is widely considered the finest active advantage player in the world. His information is gold. Just be ready for a VERY math-intensive book.

Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
Expertmagician
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Boy, I love math, but it's been a while since I had to think about equations like he talks about....

The good thing is that you can decide to "trust" him and use the results of his math for guidance.

But, it is good that he published the math, so if people are suspecious, the formulas can be reviewed. (like proofs on high school math Smile )
Long Island,

New York
silverking
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Had it for a few days now.

Fantastic book, great writing (completely irreverent, with many casino's treated as the sawdust joints they all really are at heart).

Deep stuff, don't let the math put you off the book. A healthy chunk of the book has nothing to do with deep math, and is comprised of Grosjean's sometimes politically incorrect, but incredibly deep writing and views on everything to do with gambling (he even points out where speed traps are during your drive to popular casinos, the fines for which could erase any expected profit at the tables......great stuff!).

Probably take me 'till this time next year to get through everything this book has to offer.......and even then there's stuff in here to go far beyond then.

The High Price:
Having purchased a lot of books with vertical subject matter, gambling, history of gambling, playing cards, etc, this book is definitely not overpriced. It is most definitely expensive, but with the material offered within the purchase price is more than fair.
This book could be viewed in the same light as Forte's "Casino Game Protection", in that much, if not most of the material it contains is only available between the covers of that one particular book, and nowhere else.
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