So, fellow magicians, I've got a question for you.

MAGIC BOOKS
So, why should I even read them? Well, I've learned you can't just "find a trick" that will be automatically "good." You've got to dig like crazy through tons of crap and all those unnecessarily complicated card tricks which accomplish nothing but frustration for you and your hands.

I hate those tricks by the way. I'm no Card Magic pessimist, card magic is probably the most influential branch there is. There's unparalleled potential to them in their randomness, accessibility, relativity to spectators, and deep implications behind them.

But there's a problem.

With the demise of deep magical thinking and books comes a heavy price. Nearly every card trick derives from a purpose. it lacks structure. it lacks harmony. it lacks perfection. I think the commonly held mentality around card tricks is their entertainment value is a direct result of cleverness or skill. This is wrong.
The lack of priorities is evident. the narrowmindedness of people has brushed into the magic realm and is showing through.

I HAD A VISION that when I came into magic that every card trick I performed would be mystical, and surely every magician felt this way as well. But I have found myself to be wrong. Many are boring, redundant revalations, or at best somewhat clever revelations.

In theory I know this all sounds good, but in practice I know it's harder. However, I encourage everybody to please tell me when magic degenerated into a knuckle busting compition. the mentality of the magic world is all wrong.

There will be a follow up post, but for now, share your thoughts-
Joshua The Magician

Sometimes, a kernel of wisdom will be present in an otherwise lame trick. Often, there's an introduction filled with wisdom - Dai Vernon and John Carney, just off the top of my head, have written introductions that made me see things in a new light.

Also, most art is average, in any field. There's way more bad music than good (go to an open mic night to see), and that's just the way it is.



There's art for those inside the art (like modal jazz, for instance) and there's stuff for lay audiences (like Jonas Brothers or Lady Gaga). You're hanging out with the jazz crowd, it seems.



...and I was in music for twenty years - I was positive that by now I'd be retired on my private island, ignoring the millions begging me to do one more tour. But most songs are average. Lots suck. Very few are really good.

But most of any art is average. Magic is no different.



I think that the majority of magic is performed for other magicians, others inside the art. They appreciate the technical stuff that the laypeople just can't... To further the music metaphor, they want to hear Miles Davis, not AC/DC

[quote]Sometimes, a kernel of wisdom will be present in an otherwise lame trick. Often, there's an introduction filled with wisdom - Dai Vernon and John Carney, just off the top of my head, have written introductions that made me see things in a new light.
[quote/]
I guess I wasn't clear enough before. I'm think we definately should read magic books. I totally agree with you on that. My point was that there was just so much garbage to sift through of non objective tricks (i.e. put 4 piles of 4 in each row and count down blah blah blah). that's opinion based. I know.

[quote]
But most of any art is average. Magic is no different.
[quote/]
I never viewed magic like any of the other arts. In my mind Magic is completely different, due to the nature of it - to fool the senses, and then please. This is opposed to other art forms where the goal is to please - not deceive. But, to view magic like other art forms, I can see where you're coming from and I think that the music metaphor really gave another outlook on the situation, a very good one I think.

[quote]
I think that the majority of magic is performed for other magicians, others inside the art. They appreciate the technical stuff that the laypeople just can't... To further the music metaphor, they want to hear Miles Davis, not AC/DC
[quote/]

I believe this is the point on which we differ the most. About the technical stuff...

Where in music "Miles Davis" stuff can be appreciated by those into music by his technical skill, he is the picasso of music. In magic, if you perform a trick for me... say some real difficult slight you worked on for years, obviously we'd be impressed (if it was good!) where the average layman wouldn't, at least not on the scale we would. And I have nothing against dedication to perfect a certain challenging slight. But what about the magicians who just provide challenging puzzles to their audiences? And I think the thing is that they don't want to just provide a puzzle, but resort to it b/c they can't produce what they really would like.

Well, maybe my viewpoint of the magic community is way off, and I have much to learn about the parameters of what you can really do/ what I hope to do. It's very possible I've been exposed to a lot of the wrong magicians, so I apologize if I'm not accurate in what I'm saying.
Thanks for your reply Fman111, I appreciate it.

Sounds like someone is ripe for Designing Miracles and Strong Magic. Perhaps even Maximum Entertainment...

90% of everything is $#!+, by the way.

Thought creates the world. Thought brings things into existence. Thoughts develop the desires and excite the passions. So, the contrary thoughts of killing the desires and passions will counteract the former idea of satisfying the desires.

Nice post and subject matter Joshua.

More and more I find myself seeking an elusive quality of magic - how to give it some kind of meaning and significance.

In the past, I'd always been happy with magic for magic's sake - fooling and entertaining people. But as I get older (and hopefully wiser), that doesn't provide the satisfaction that it used to. I used to like tricks because they fooled me; I thought they were cool just because of their cleverness. Right or wrong, good or bad, I now find myself asking "why" on a much deeper level.

I started by using the word "elusive", because I struggle with that "why", and I feel like I haven't come very far in discovering what that is.

I wonder if I've been infected by some of Derren Brown's thinking on magic. He almost holds it in disdain. The types of effects he strives to perform are (or at least read to be) on that mystical level that you mention.

I've never cared for story presentations. I think that's because many are done poorly, without elevating the effect. But at this stage of the game, I find myself recalling a story effect done by Eugene Burger that really elevated the trick, and gave it meaning. I remember getting sucked into the story - because he did a great job telling it. I think there may be something to this in my (our?) search - but then again, not exactly. The answer isn't to do a bunch of story tricks. Are we story tellers or magicians? Not only that, but though I got sucked into the story, it still seemed like the story was an excuse to show a specific trick. I'm not looking for stories fit to tricks, or for tricks fit to stories. I'm looking for something that "I" do that has significance for others, in a magical way.

And that brings with it a lot of problems. It kind of goes back to the points made by Derren Brown: How can I bring deeper meaning and significance to what I'm doing when I'm running around a restaurant with sponge balls? Is there a way to accomplish both? Derren seemed to think not. The path I'm struggling on affects everything - from venue to effects to props, and probably other things I'm not thinking of.

So, elusive... I'm not even sure what I'm looking for. And I'm not sure that I've even seen examples of what I'm looking for. All I know is that what I always focused on in the past - the latest and greatest method - that's not what's the most important aspect to magic.

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing here or not - but I'd love to hear others' thoughts on the matter.

I'm curious, how long have you been in magic and what are you reading that gives you such a dim view of books and the thinking behind them? What was it you were hoping to get from the books you read

Motown-
I've been in magic about five years and some of the books I've recently readd marlo stuff, showmanship in magic by henning nelms, amateur magicians handbook, Michael Ammar's book, expert card technique... these have all mostly been very good. My attitutude isn't from the books but the tricks in the community.

You should check out 'Absolute Magic' by Derren Brown. He writes about a lot of these things in a really intelligent and creative way. It is the best book on magic theory that I have ever read (I have read about 15 or so)...

Equally - you could just decide that magic isn't an art and get used to that fact. I think certain magicians are artists - but in general I see magic more as a craft than an art. In fact, it is pretty pointless in many ways. But so what? I think it makes card tricks more fun when you consider that they have no higher merit than just being cool to do. Life's too short and if you want to study an art then learn to write music or something. I mean has anybody really being moved by a card trick in the same way as a great piece of music, cinema or poetry? Also - I agree with Penn and Teller. Art is easy - A urinal can be art. Intelligent and original entertainment is difficult...

I think one of the more noble aspects of humanity is the ability to enjoy something for it's own intrinsic worth. As opposed to only being interested in something because you have convinced yourself it has a higher meaning...

I mean do Tap Dancers, Clowns, Ventriloquists, Jugglers and people who make snow-angels worry about whether or not they are practicing an art?

And yes, I know Michael Moschen is an artist. But still - on the whole I don't think you could classify juggling as an art that is profound or moving...

Joe

Good points Bob.

I'm asking myself a lot of those questions. Maybe I'm just thinking too much...

Check out Tommy Wonder....the books.
Ted L

Joshua, Cohiba, etc.,
In marketing, we refer to how a message will be received by its intended audiences. They will ask, "WIIFM?"..."What's In It For Me?" And we'd better be prepared to have an answer.

Same with magic. If our audience gives us their attention, we'd better be prepared to give them something that's worth their time. Too much of magic focuses on the magician saying, "Look what I can do!" Blah. As the Seinfeld Dictum makes plain, "Here's a card. Now it's gone. Now I found it. You're an idiot."

Magic that gives people a reason to care will work far more often. And from my perspective (sorry, Cohiba), stories often provide that reason. "Triumph" is a story. "Twins" is a story. "Sam the Bellhop" is a story. You know these effects. And not just because the card handling is so wonderful.

Poker effects, when presented effectively, provide that reason to care. Paul Cummins' "Punken Droker" is hugely effective. Again, it's a story. John Bannon's "Beyond Fabulous" is, likewise, a great story with an even better kicker.

Think about it: "Cannibal Cards" is a story that gives cards human qualities. Even Cummins' 21-card trick can be effectively presented as a story about people. Or show me something you've learned about the use of cards. Cabral's "Sting Too" is a demonstration, as is England's "Another Shuffle Stack." Parker's "Final Palm," likewise.

When I was a TV reporter, I developed the idea that "people relate to people much better than they do ideas." So, I told my stories through the eyes of people, and how the issues I was reporting on affected them. Same with cards. Tell me a story about people, and how they were affected by the use of or interaction with cards, and chances are you'll have a winner.

Again, I refer to the "most of anything is bad" rule. Some say it's as high as 90%.



Every art is unique - magic entertains with apparent impossibilites. Theatre entertains with a dramatic or comedic narrative played out before you. Music entertains with melodies, rhythms and lyrics. All the performing arts do the same thing in a different manner, that is they entertain.



A layman does not have the technical knowledge that you and I do, so they cannot appreciate the technique. But the sleight is not the point - if it's done well, and misdirection takes effect, then it's invisible. Laymen can appreciate that an ambitious card impossibly rises to the top of the deck. Magicians appreciate the pass that brought it there. This is kind of the 'inside the art/outside the art' thing. Do you want the praise of your peers for brilliant technical ability, or do you want to keep laypeople totally entertained?

Get Designing Miracles. It explains this kind of thing beautifully.

Ill look into getting the book.

Get Strong Magic while your at it.

One of the great things about the Magic Café is that you have access to thousands of magicians who are deep in the sifting process, just as you are. This is a great site to go to before you buy or read anything, just to get the thoughts of others. I've been turned on to lots of great books and effects through TMC, and avoided many lousy ones.

I have struggled over the years to come to terms with what I think good magic is and how I would like to perform it/see it performed. I have really enjoyed the discussions so far.

I remember reading a short article in The Crimp many years ago where Sadowitz argued for showing people what you want rather than what they want. The bottom line was if you show them what they want then we will all end up as singers. People don't necessary know what they want to see and it is up to our artistic individuality to entertain and impress them however we see fit.

AS you last sentence says.. you've been turned on. Nice. JAJA okay okay stupid joke time is over. Anyway I completely agree except that last sentence of yours needs a little rephrasing!

Wrap-up
What we've established in this thread:

1. "Most of any art is average. Magic is no different... I refer to the "most of anything is bad" rule. Some say it's as high as 90%." - Fman111

So most of the magic tricks we learn and make up are not gonna be perfect. But,you just have to keep pushing through and learning and absorbing more knowledge in magic and you'll find those "kernels of wisdom", as Fman111 put it.
**sidenote** Magic is an art. However, it is definitely unique, and although shares many similarities with other arts, it has its individualities. If magic is taken as ana serious art I think we'd see a lot more beautiful magic tricks out there, besides tricks with only half of the necessary "art effort" put in. The "art effort" being that special dedication. However magicians need to overcome the technical obstacle in training their muscles to master a sleight... which leads us to our next point...
2. Magic is performed for its intended audience, and also to impress or fool fellow magicians.
"I think that the majority of magic is performed for other magicians, others inside the art. They appreciate the technical stuff that the laypeople just can't... To further the music metaphor, they want to hear Miles Davis, not AC/DC." -Fman111
So although we probably all got into magic in order to impress our fellow friends, family members or other people people often get sidetracked from their goals and we are no exception. It definitely is fun to fool someone who's put as much time as you into practicing an art and can really appreciate all the work you've done. BUT, although it's good fun we shouldn't make it a habit. The goal of magic is to create magic for other laymen...
3. Magic is for laymen. End of story. No matter what remember that your goal is to create the magical experience for other laymen. You cannot convert them to Christianity with a double lift. You are a Magician. Remember your role, and as Bob_Hummer put it, "I think it makes card tricks more fun when you consider that they have no higher merit than just being cool to do. Life's too short..."
**sidenote** However, do not forget that Magic can be taken to higher art forms. You choose your magic's destiny. To incorporate other art forms into your magic can create some really excellent routines, and usually the best ones do just this. So to say that magic is just a clever puzzle would be HIGHLY UNDERSTATING what Magic is all about.
4. A Magician can and does have great responsibility. Don't brush that off. Not many people are watched with rapt attention and have their every muscle movement picked apart by an audience of hundred.

"In marketing, we refer to how a message will be received by its intended audiences. They will ask, "WIIFM?"..."What's In It For Me?" And we'd better be prepared to have an answer.

Same with magic. If our audience gives us their attention, we'd better be prepared to give them something that's worth their time. Too much of magic focuses on the magician saying, "Look what I can do!" Blah. As the Seinfeld Dictum makes plain, "Here's a card. Now it's gone. Now I found it. You're an idiot." " -Steve Friedberg
So we've gotta provide for our audience. The focus ain't on you necessarily, it's n what your doing at first. Don't overestimate what your Magic accomplishes. We're in the 20th century in a new age, people aren't going to worship you as a shaman if you produce fire out of your hand. In the internet age, you'll be lucky if you get a round of applause.

This critical magical thinking demonstrated just in this post shows that people are thinking about their magic and what Magic really is and does. Thanks all for your contributions, and if you have any thoughts or problems with this wrap up please feel free to tell me so we can improve it.

** side note** A list of all the books mentioned in this post which are highly recommended for the "Deep Magical Thinkers." If you have any books on this type of subject matter just say 'em.

Designing Miracles
Strong Magic
Maximum Entertainment
'Absolute Magic' by Derren Brown
Tommy Wonder....the books

" My attitutude isn't from the books but the tricks in the community."
What tricks for example?