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joshsmagic Regular user Chicago 189 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-03 16:53, pearljamjeff wrote: jeff, this isn't working with you. Its not gonna sink through that head is it, lol. Jeff, nobody said to approach arrogantly and force yourself on people who don't want magic. Appearances are everything. If you look pleasant and talk to them like a normal person maybe even asking them if they had a bad day and listening to their woes, this is how you win someone over. Once you get them to like you then you introduce the magic if it seems appropriate. You never force anything. If you approach them as a person you have won half the battle. If you approach them as the Amazing Magic Super Hero that will change their life you will get nowhere. Click here to view attached image. |
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
Quote:
... this is how you win someone over. This is not your job. This should not be your goal. This is arrogance and ego.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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joshsmagic Regular user Chicago 189 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-03 17:13, pearljamjeff wrote: making a connection with people is my goal, that's why I do magic, and that's what I'm doing |
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
Awesome. And sometimes, the best way to connect with someone is to respect them enough to leave them alone. They will appreciate it.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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joshsmagic Regular user Chicago 189 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-03 17:23, pearljamjeff wrote: you're getting off topic jeff, they appreciate it enough to tip me. My point earlier was that I can't blame 95% of the guests for Chris's job, I blame him. And my advice stated was I would change your appearance, approach, and style. |
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
Right... to "win people over."
Smug. Arrogant. Self-serving. Know-it-all. Mini-Kamm. If this was happening in all of Chris' restaurants, your advice might hold a bit of water, but that's not the case here.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
If it's good enough for Obama...
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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joshsmagic Regular user Chicago 189 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-03 17:35, pearljamjeff wrote: Its the case when you're dealing with people who are all tired from work, like 95% of his clientele |
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
We're going to have to agree to disagree here. But if I ever visit your restaurant after a long day, please stay the heck away from me. I won't care how nice or well dressed you are.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
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Dude is there anyone who can disagree with you and not get cursed at, sent hateful private messages and ripped apart for daring to have their own view on things? You ripped me apart publicly and via private message. You just ripped on Josh and then gave him fair warning you were going to take him apart in a private message. You ripped Mark Ennis publicly and via private message. And by your own admission chewed out one of the spectators in your audience. A 10-year-old little girl no less. Two words: anger management. So much for brotherhood. I know you disagree with us. That's fine. But could you please ease up on the personal attacks merely because folks post a differing opinion? |
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M Sini Inner circle 1359 Posts |
So making fun of someone's clothing isn't a personal attack; it's just a differing opinion?
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joshsmagic Regular user Chicago 189 Posts |
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On 2009-08-03 21:53, Mario Orsini wrote: it didn't start out that way Mario |
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Sammy J. Inner circle Castle Rock, Colorado 1786 Posts |
Just think of what could happen if you guys channeled all this energy into your magic instead of this thread. OK, guilty myself for reading every post here. I can't resist a good soap opera! Back to practice!
Sammy
Sammy J. Teague
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Hansel Inner circle Puerto Rico 2492 Posts |
So Sad to hear that you have bad experiences w/ Applebees!
Follow Me...
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/Hansels-Comedy-and-Magic-Show-929625643774678/ Youtube: HanselSP Twitter: @HanselSP Instagram: HanselSP |
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Christopher Lyle Inner circle Dallas, Texas 5698 Posts |
WOW! When it rains it pours huh!
This is the SECOND THREAD in the last week that has been violentnly highjacked and taken over by some aarogant loser! I find that quite amusing. It neverfails to amaze me how these young guys are unable to see past the end of their own nose. They find something that works for them, and they think that's the "magic" formula for everyone. There's two ways of doing everything...the right way and then there's Josh's way. Not that Josh will know who this is, but Albert Goshman dressed like a bum, even when he had on a tux, and half the time he had the morning's breakfast all over the front of his shirt. But, as I said, Josh wouldn't know who Albert Goshman is anyway, so I don't know what I even bother bringing that up. Matt Schulien, one of the greatest bar magicians ever, and also from Chicago, as is Josh, was also a fat bum if all you based your opinion on was his physical appearance. He did not wear the latest trend in clothing and I doubt he cared, and I can surely imagine his customers didn't care either. Saying that my collar scares people off is just insane. You keep saying over and over again how your job is to "CONNECT" with your audience. Your magic appears to be magical mast****tion. It's very flourishy. I'm not sure that's connecting with an audience... maybe dazzling them with cleverness, but not much more. Since you have attacked MY STYLE, let's take a look at you...shall we? In looking at your You Tube Clips, even tho' I think the news story that you had done for you was good...I think there are some OBVIOUS things that must be mentioned. 1) Wearing a tux in Applebee's does not automatically connect you with the audience, nor does it give you a classy look. It is actually out of place and not the trend for the venue. I guess dumbing it down by going sans bowtie makes you appear to be "cool". Personally...I think you look like a slob. Try and clean up a bit huh...for the good of the art. 2) People seem to only know you by your nickname: "The magic guy". I guess that's creating a "memorable" immpression, huh? When I walk into my restaurants, I have people saying "Hey look...Christopher's here!" or "COOL!, Christopher's here to do some magic." THAT is what you call creating a memorable impression. NOBODY referes to me as "Hey! It's that Magic Guy!" 3) The TV reporter's snap change at the end of the piece was the best visual bit of magic in the whole clip. His attitude was even better than yours is, acting like it was just stuff and that he had better things to do. He certainly didn't talk about how many months it took him to learn it as you did in your interview piece. Lame and pathetic...WHATEVER! But enough of that...let's get to the good stuff and address these posts...shall we? Quote:
I guess your style is as CAPTIVATING as chris's. collar sticking out of the blazer? you probably fit right in with your friends. I can't say that I remember that style being around recently. First of all...WHY ON EARTH would I want to look like EVERY OTHER MAGICIAN PERFORMING TODAY? I prefer the Smart Suit look...very clean lines...sculpted. The look of today is buying clothes at Hot Topic and trying to like a street thug. I'm sorry...but I have no ambition to look homeless when I perform. I'll leave that to you. You should also do your research Josh. My style is quite popular. It was very hip back in the 20s in the era of the Rat Pack which is a time that I really admire and appreciate. Now that Swing Dancing is back and is considered hip, that style has come back. It's also re-surfaced as a very trendy and popular look for today amongst other geners of the entertainment world. I am deeply into the A Capella Music scene. Many quartets of today wear this style. I have seen this on other performance artists as well. Regardless of what you believe, this look is very now. It's very cool and I get a lot of great complients on my look! Quote:
lol, you're hung up on this disco thing chris. You said you wear bright orange or yellow buttom up shirts with the collar out, and to people from this time period, that looks disco man. Funny...YOU are the one who keeps bringing it up. I'm only responding your continued lunacy! You also seem to enjoy putting words in my mouth. I never said I wear an orange shirt nor did I ever tell you that my shirts were BRIGHT. I told you in my private message that when I perform, I usually wear either a white button down, a yellow button down, a peach button down, a blue button down, or a black button down. I choose the shirt that looks best with the suit I'm wearing (either a black pinstrip or a grey pinstrip). At NO POINT did I ever tell you that I was wearing BRIGHT SHIRTS. Quote:
I think your shirt collar out of the jacket scares people away. I think your full of crap and have no idea what your talking about! For the record, I don't even wear my shirt collar out of my jacket like that for every gig. It all depends on my mood! Sometimes, I look like this: http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p377/......1365.jpg http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p377/......1369.jpg http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p377/......1459.jpg or sometimes like this: http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p377/......mbie.jpg or like this: http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p377/......ow/1.jpg http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p377/......ow/2.jpg or even like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJnOjHLE3......nel_page Guess what...ALL of those looks are very nice, clean, and professional. Quote:
I think my tux shirt and vest don't. Very casual shirt, unbuttoned collar, with a vest, at a casual family restaurant. I think it makes you look like a sloppy homeless person. But hey...if that's what you think is "hip, today, and trendy" then by all means, go right ahead. Quote:
I'm not trying to look like a clown chris. I'm trying to look sophisticated, You should try harder. The sloppy Bar Tender look is not sophisticated. Seriously! Take what your doing now and do a total 180. Then you'll have sophisticated! Quote:
regardless what you think I can't take any opinion serious from a guy who thinks clothes like that are 'hip'. I'm sorry. And I can't take the advice from some snot nose little 23 year old child who only started doing magic after watching The Prestige and who thought..."hey, I wanna be cool like that too!" [quote]nobody said to approach arrogantly and force yourself on people who don't want magic. [quote] SO THEN GENIOUS...how about answering my question which you have yet to answer (and I'm guessing won't!). If you approach a table and they tell you no thank you...then what do you do? Do you stay or do you leave and move to the next table? The reason I'm so irked by this close minded thinking is b/c you don't have the level of experience to even comment on such a situation. You've been doing this now since The Prestige came out...so at the very most since 2006, less than 3 years! I've been doing this now for OVER 20 YEARS! There's NOTHING you can say to me to hold a candle to what I've experienced. Quote:
Appearances are everything. If you look pleasant and talk to them like a normal person maybe even asking them if they had a bad day and listening to their woes, this is how you win someone over. Once you get them to like you then you introduce the magic if it seems appropriate. You never force anything. If you approach them as a person you have won half the battle. If you approach them as the Amazing Magic Super Hero that will change their life you will get nowhere. WOW!!!!! FINALLY, you have said something in your incoherent ramblings that makes perfect sense. First impressions mean everything. Since you have NEVER seen me play a restaurant, have never seen my approach, then you have no right nor the qualification to tell me that what I'm doing is wrong! On the contraray...my approach style is much of what you mentioned above to a table who has never seen me before. making a connection with people is my goal, that's why I do magic, and that's what I'm doing Quote:
My point earlier was that I can't blame 95% of the guests for Chris's job, I blame him. Your stupidity continues to overwhelm me. It's not my fault that someone doesn't wish to see magic. Please tell me how it is my fault by saying something other than "your shirt collar is scary!" Now to change it up a bit. Mario Orsini chimes in with... Quote:
So making fun of someone's clothing isn't a personal attack; it's just a differing opinion? ...to which Josh responds Quote:
it didn't start out that way Mario LIKE HECK it didn't! Your first post came out attacking my appearnce and my style! Dude...you can't even lie well! And now PEARLJAM JEFF writes... Quote:
Right... to "win people over." This is correct! If everywhere I went was yeilding the same results, then I'd have no other choice but to step back and take a look at myself, my act, and my demeanor. But that's not the case. In my 25 or so years performing in restaurants, this has happened maybe twice. Now Robert Smith decides to chime in with his whit and wisdom... [quote]Dude is there anyone who can disagree with you and not get cursed at, sent hateful private messages and ripped apart for daring to have their own view on things? [quote] I wondered how long it would take Robert to find his way into this thread. Shocking you don't see it from my point of view. If you think that I'm going to allow someone to come at me and attack me as BOTH you and Josh have, then you're SADLY MISTAKEN! Quote:
You ripped me apart publicly and via private message. Let's set that straight. I NEVER ripped apart Josh in a Private Message. I tried to get our disagreement OFF of the public area and speak to him privately. He decided to continue to attack me and try and run my name thru the mud in public, so I'm taking the time now to address his attacks in public, since he's too imature to take this off the public area. I never attacked Mark Ennis in any way. Him and I disagree, but I never attacked him. [quote]I know you disagree with us. That's fine. But could you please ease up on the personal attacks merely because folks post a differing opinion? [quote] YES! I do disagree with you. It's hard for me to swallow ignorance. I refuse to lay down and play dead while wastes of space like you and Josh continue to attack me. I'm all for open debate. I'm all for differing opinions. But YOU guys threw the first punch so I'm coming out swinging! I posted this thread for ONE REASON! To educate people. At NO POINT did I EVER ask Josh or anyone for advice. I never said "why did this happen" or "what did I do wrong", etc.? NEWS FLASH. If someone doesn't ask for advice Josh (and Robert), maybe you shouldn't offer it. If they ask, then bombs away. Something else has been bugging me too about Robert. WHY did you change your name from Robert Bloor to Robert Smith? Your Bloor account is still active I see...yet you set up a new account with a differnt name for an unknown reason. I find that very odd indeed! One last thing before I close. Both Josh and Robert have used the word "aarogant" when they describe me. I am NOT AAROGANT. I'm CONFIDENT! There's a big difference! Aarogance is when you discuss a topic that you know nothing about but you act like you know all there is know about that certain topic. When I look at the word aarogant, I think of both Josh and Robert. I am very CONFIDENT when I speak. I know what I'm talking about. I am highly respected by "those who count" in the Magic World. If you go back and read every single post that I have ever written, you will notice one thing. I NEVER POST ANYTHING on a subject that I know nothing about. The only things I ever post on are things that I've experienced and am 101% knowledgable about. Therefore, I know that I'm always right! I don't like being wrong so I never put myself in a situation where I will be! WYYYS (When You're Young You're Stupid), Christopher
In Mystery,
Christopher Lyle Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius For a Good Time...CLICK HERE! |
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Christopher Lyle Inner circle Dallas, Texas 5698 Posts |
I almost forgot!
In my original post, I said in part, Quote:
There is GOOD NEWS at the end of this story. My Monday Night gig at Cristina's is working out so well, they want to ADD me to Tuesday Nights as well. So I quit my Wednesday Night gig but picked up a Tuesday Night gig all in the same day...so it's an even wash. (Whew!) I went in to Cristina's this evening for my Monday Night run and was told a slight change was going to occur. They decided to have me on Monday and Wednesday Nights as apposed to Tuesdays. So alls well that ends well (if Josh can ever get over himself). I quit my Wednesday Night Applebees Gig b/c it wasn't a good match for my services and was able to secure an extra night at Cristina's to on Wednesday's to replace Applebees. (Nice!)
In Mystery,
Christopher Lyle Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius For a Good Time...CLICK HERE! |
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JeffMac Veteran user Sudbury, ont 350 Posts |
I'm just curious how many venues you've actually worked Josh.
We are not talking about 95% of Lyle's Audience we are talking 95% of this venues audience. I have booked performers for many many venues and performed in several. It is idiotic and naive for a performer to think that they can work to all crowds. The fact is that Lyle obviously does not need this venue and the smart performer/promoter would not try and bend the act to suit the audience if said performer already has an audience else where. The key is to focus on your strengths and work on your weaknesses where you can. And if you can recognize that a venue doesn't work for you go find the gigs that do. Especially when you are already booking successful gigs. If a performer continually tries to make an act that appeals to everyone it will get watered down to the point that it appeals to no one. As far as Lyle's collar goes you might want to not speak up as much when it comes to performance fashion as you are pretty far off the boat if you think that contemporary style is the way to go. Your fashion works well if you were at a wedding as a grooms man several drinks in. Your clothes are part of your persona and while you might stand out in a crowd at a family restaurant your going to be ubiquitous at a corporate event or any higher end event. Truly successful performers come of as larger than life and don't blend and don't conform to social norms. While his style isn't that impressive to you I could say the same for Chris Angel to me. Or Prince to my Mother, or Elvis to my Grandmother. Yet all of them have done all right. |
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Christopher Lyle Inner circle Dallas, Texas 5698 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-04 01:38, JeffMac wrote: EXACTLY!!!!!!!!
In Mystery,
Christopher Lyle Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius For a Good Time...CLICK HERE! |
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AaronTheMagician Loyal user 291 Posts |
Two quick points:
Having personally folded Chris's collar over his lapel on many occasions before a shoot, I can testify it's extremely classy and goes over very well. I lost count of the amount of compliments he received from patrons and spectators about his debonair appearance. And also found it humorous how many younger magicians try to emulate it after seeing him. On a second note, I was once working a VERY "high-class" party with Bizzaro. The client and location will remain anonymous. On this occasion, I was doing strolling magic -- when I approached a group of gentlemen standing around, I was told before I even got close to, "Take my card tricks and scamper away." With a smile, and hands that were still void of any props, I asked, "Are you sure, sir?" "No no, you don't understand; go bother THEM!" he gestured. I humbly bowed away from them and continued on through the evening. There are a lot of people who, whether we agree or not, simply do not want to see anything. That doesn't mean they hate you -- it means they have a pre-formed negative opinion that is completely unrelated to you. Take it as such. NOT personally. Don't take anything personally. It's not all about you... |
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MiketheMagicDude Loyal user CT 270 Posts |
Chris,
Maybe you didn't go over well at applebees because customers were vicariously mad at you because their food was disgusting. good riddance if you ask me. I have had better cuisine at mcdonalds. btw. no offense but your collar is way too large for rat pack style. (which was 60s not 20s, and they didn't dress that way often.) it is nuevo disco all the way. nothing from the 20s really resembles the way you dress. what exactly are you talking about. |
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