|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7 [Next] | ||||||||||
Corbett Inner circle Indiana 1161 Posts |
This entire thread is getting a bit ridiculous in my opinion. Since when did this Café' become the place where fellow magicians tear each other down? It seems rather sophomoric to be honest, and is disapointing to say the least. Everyone is entitled to their opinion as to whether or not someone's performance was impressive to them. But to go on and on about it, in an effort to prove your point that someone's routine stinks? Come on. Grow up guys. Let's move on.
|
|||||||||
RamonT Regular user 200 Posts |
This thread is getting GREEN like The Magic Café. (:
Relax people. |
|||||||||
dfield New user 91 Posts |
Many people are getting caught up in the personality of Shawn Farquhar. This has nothing to do with his character. It has to do with his routine winning first place at FISM.
In my opinion, it is by no means up to the standard or other past FISM winners and certainly not in the same league as Soma's very clever and well presented winning routine. How can you compare Shawn with many of the greats in the past - perhaps time will tell. I still admire Fred Kaps and other top winners. FISM is sadly becoming somewhat of a joke and most magicians just don't care about it anymore. This is perhaps why no real professionals are entering it anymore and the standard has dropped drastically. I feel Blackpool really needs to give FISM a huge shake-up - this will include getting rid of all the past judges and getting new ones. May I suggest Simon Cowell as the first judge. One final point - does anybody know who the judges were. I think they have a lot to answer for, and next FISM they should get different judges. I'm assuming that the judges are all well known, full time professional and respected magicians. Can somebody please post a list of judges for this years FISM. |
|||||||||
Norden New user Vancouver, BC 56 Posts |
Here is my 2 cents:
First off, I know Shawn quite well. He is an amazing magician and very talented. He is a real working magician and most of us cannot say the same. The amount of time, effort and money he has spent to help spread and encourage magic is beyond compare. To say he is a disgrace is to drag his good name through the mud. I have watched Shawn hone and perfect his routine over the past 10 years. It is a thing of beauty. My wife cried when she first say it. She did not have the same experience when she saw Russ perform it live on a cruise in Europe. We both thought Shawn's take on this was superior. Yes - I have had the privilege to see both. I found them to be very different in sleights, style and approach. The song was the same of course. But who would not think of doing a routine the Sting song? The song does invlove cards... I asked Shawn about Russ when I came back - he advised me of the afore mentioned contact he had with Russ as he thought Russ has seen his routine. It had seemed to be a case of independent creation. Nuff said. Russ could well have taken his act to FISM and compete. He did not. Shawn did and won and I think kudos are to be given - not harsh words. If you meet someone for 10 minutes it is not fair to judge them so. I met Russ and when he found out I was a magician he basically blew me off. I was disappointed - but that is where my words end on Russ. I don't KNOW they guy, so anything beyond that is speculation about his life. A disgrace? A waste of humanity? Please. You do not know the real Shawn Farquhar. Norden |
|||||||||
Fábio DeRose Inner circle San Paolo, Brasile 1477 Posts |
Amen, bro.
|
|||||||||
Yehuda Elite user 413 Posts |
Can someone please post the FISM 2009 winners?
Yehuda |
|||||||||
Corbett Inner circle Indiana 1161 Posts |
Dfield - Now regarding your comments, to say there are posts all over the Café with negativity and put-downs may be correct, but certainly doesn't make it right. Are you serious when you say "That's what the Café is all about?" Perhaps you need to read the Café marquee again - "Magicians Helping Magicians."
Who cares who the current judges are or were? If you know who they are, what will do you do then, start another post ripping the judges? Get over it guys. The competition is over. Decision is made. Move on. |
|||||||||
silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
Quote:
The competition is over. Decision is made. Move on. These are the most salient words in this thread! |
|||||||||
Shawn Farquhar V.I.P. Canada 760 Posts |
What a difference a week makes. A few day ago I was surrounded by friends and colleagues as I experienced a dream come true. Now all that seems so distant.
I am writing from China where I have been since FISM. Internet here is censored and I have been quite busy working on projects here in Asia and spending time with my Wife and Daughter. I am unable to view most of the sites I normally access like Facebook and YouTube. I have however received a number of emails from friends posting a link to a blog where I am being attacked not only for my magic but for who I am. I cannot reply to this blog as it is blocked here in China, but with the help of a friend I am able to read the writings of this vicious individual and his friends with no credentials other than their right to use the internet. I will make no comments to these people as that would only help them in their quest for celebrity. I will how ever address others who have posted in this thread and the blog with the truth and not the fiction that has been left unchallenged until now. Jim McDonald: First congratulations for championing what you believe is a mis-justice, no matter how misguided. On the blog you wrote: "...you really can't compare Shawn to other FISM winners such as Fred Kaps." You are absolutely correct. No one can compare to Fred Kaps ... that's why he won three Grand Prix's. duh! Next you wrote later on iTricks: "This IS a serious issue as we have a well known magician winning the biggest award in magic with a routine that he saw somebody else do, and is really taking us ALL FOR FOOLS." This is a lie. I had never seen Russ perform his routine until years after I had established a reputation with mine and was confronted by a number of British magicians who accused me of stealing Russ's routine following my performance at FFFF in New York. They in fact said the routine was identical and that I was a thief. I immediately contacted Russ Stevens to confront him as I believed he had stolen my routine based on the information I was given by his friends. I sent Russ a video link to my performance and he suggested I buy his newly released DVD on the Biggest Secrets of Magic which included a performance video of his routine. I bought the DVD and watched his routine which had nothing in common other than the music and a stool (which by the way I did not use at FISM 2009). I wrote Russ and said it was obvious he had never seen mine and he agreed that I had not seen his either and it was a simple matter of independent creation. I though the mater had ended. Over the years I have corrected friends who have called or emailed to tell me of Russ and his theft of my routine. In each Case I explained how we had independently created the routines and were OK, with each others use of the same song with different routines and that Russ was not a thief, but an ethical magician. Mr. McDonald also made a post in regards to my getting standing ovations on the ship using the song "stand up for the champions" by Right Said Fred. My friend and I are having problems finding the post anymore so I suspect it my have been removed... hmmm Regardless: Your friend, who recently cruised on NCL, is either mistaken, lying or a figment of your own imagination. The video you viewed on YouTube with the music of Right Said Fred is only for promotional purposes. That music has NEVER been used to close a single show in my professional career. Anyone who has actually witnessed my show will tell you this is a fact and that you, your friend or your imagination is fabricating a lie to fuel your initial anger at me for an act you accuse me of committing that is just as false. I have in fact received over 500 standing ovations onboard the vessel of Norwegian Cruise line and the only reason they stood was they felt compelled to because of a connection I made with my audience and my unique style of performance of magic. dfield wrote: "However, this should not be about a persons personality. We can't like everybody or their style of performance. We are getting away from the main point. Did FISM award first place to somebody who took an idea from another person. Many people are getting caught up in the personality of Shawn Farquhar. This has nothing to do with his character. It has to do with his routine winning first place at FISM. " You are right. This should not be about personalities. Yet I have been called "hubristic ***", "self-opinionated ****face", "grinning, presumptuous ***' and my favorite "waste of humanity". I am saddened that these comments will be forever available on the internet. FISM awarded me a prize for an original routine that involved multiple decks switches, an ambitious card routine to music which I have performed for fourteen years and my signed card in sealed deck effect which was inspired by the original plot of the Dean of American Magicians, George Schlinder. korttihai_82 wrote this interesting post and noted he was fellow Fin and felt his friend, Kristina Nivala should have won: "Its also worth noting that in everything, there is also lots of politics going on. Farquhar has been 2nd in FISM for at least 3? times??? He has won pretty much every competition out there and last year he has been in pretty much every possible magic convention known to a man just to make sure he is known... Its worth noting that when "magic superstar" meets "not so well known" guys in competitions, do you really expect that they will get same judging..." I resent that you think politics had anything to do with the contest. I have "won pretty much every competition out there" but have lost ones too, such as the IBM/SAM last year in Louisville. I laughed out loud when you wrote "magic superstar". Are you implying that the other competitors are the "not so well known" guys? Backstage on my preliminary day was a who's who's of outstanding acts who I am proud to call friends. In fact it looked like the dressing room of the Ron McMillian contest in December. As an aside I would like to publicly state ... your friend Kristian is an excellent magician and a fellow 4F'er and I wish him nothing but the best in the future. And now for the one you have all been waiting for ... Russ Stevens: Russ wrote on the Café: "Shawn did NOT come up with his routine when I did. The fact is, that I was doing this routine for at least TWO years before him and have the proof to back that up. Shawn was very nice in his emails and I accepted that we'd just had the same presentational idea ..." Russ I never claimed to performing to Sting's song for as long as you. I understand from our emails that you found the song on the CD which I believe came out in 1993. I discovered the song on a video of the movie Leon which was sometime in the Spring of 1995. I did not see the movie in a theatre but rented the video. This makes your discovery earlier than mine. What I have said repeatedly is that I found the music and created my routine independently and in fact years before I had ever even heard of you. In a new thread on the Café dated August 6, 2009 you have written: "The gentleman who had the tape (who lived in Vancouver) decided to get it converted from PAL to NTSC (the USA format). It turns out that Shawn Farquhar offered to pay half the cost of the conversion, so that they could both have a copy of the tape to watch. The gentleman said that he has felt guilty ever since, and that he thinks it is time for Shawn to own up." I know nothing of this and in fact owned a PAL/NTSC conversion machine through most of the nineties (in fact it is still in my spare bedroom), so why would I offer to pay to have something converted? Who is this well respected person you are being so cryptic about? You then write: "I have no intention of contacting Shawn Farquhar directly again as previous emails have proved it to be a pointless and empty experience." Russ, I have replied with honesty and integrity to every email sent by you. Russ wrote on iTricks: "Tim knows full well that what I was saying was that I wasn’t the one making the accusations at the time, it was Shawn Fawquar that was doing that. Therefore, unlike you Tim, he obviously thought they were close enough too." No Russ I did not think they were close enough. In fact I was told by your friends at the FFFF convention that the routines were identical. I had never seen or heard of you for that matter! I contacted you based on their statements and soon discovered the routine had nothing similar other than the use of the same music. As I wrote above I thought we had settled this dispute. In fact you wrote, "I wouldn't want to ever fall out, and of course, as discussed before, I know that we've simply had the same presentational idea. In fact when a few people first told me of yours, I checked out what you were doing and found it to be obviously different to the extent that a rip-off wouldn't do." Now you appear to be upset that I used my routine to compete and win an award. You have also since written you were uncomfortable by my use of a stool ... what? On the Café you wrote: "... what really lifts them above the norm IS the staging and use of the music. To not understand that, it to not understand the performance of magic. I'd also like to point out that even Shawn considered the routines were too close as it was he who initially was accusing me." First you are correct in the fact the staging and music are what make our routines. It is also true that our staging is different as pointed out above. As to your claim the I consider our "routines were too close". Nothing is further from the truth and I believed I cleared that up in paragraph above. In response to Tim Ellis you wrote: "The only time I've publicly spoken about this was because of Shawn's comments about me to friends at conventions accusing me of copying his idea. I'm completely 100% ethical and the thought of anyone watching my routine and thinking I had stolen Shawn's horrifies me. I suppose at least people now know the truth." Your post implies that I have made the accusation of theft more than once. You and I are both aware that I have only accused you once and that was when your friends accused me of theft at the FFFF convention. We communicated via email and you indicated all was well. I too am 100% ethical and to read your post that claims I have repeatedly accused you is wrong and you should clarify this in your reply to this post. This is not the act of an honest person. This post is deceptive and wrong. Russ also wrote: "when I did finally see his version 'live' in Blackpool a few years ago, the style of performance and staging was uncomfortably close." Russ there is nothing close about yours and my style of performance. As for staging I use a giant screen, a video camera, a signed card and sit to the extreme left of the stage. I have never seen you perform 'live' but from the DVD you suggested I buy and the YouTube video you posted it appears you sit center stage, use an unsigned card, no screen nor camera and have a card sword as a finale. In a reply to Tim Ellis you wrote: "I wouldn’t expect 2,000 people cheering Shawn’s win to be shouting my name. Shawn has spent the last ten years promoting this routine as his signature piece, despite knowing about mine and I’m just setting the record straight." My math shows that I have been presenting the routine for closer to fourteen years and it is my signature piece. Your routine is yours and you can promote it as you feel, but mine is mine. Original and independent of you. I'm just setting the record straight. Since our initial confrontation I have never said you are not entitled to your presentation. To do so would be wrong, as it is for you to say the same to me. "Unlike you guy’s, I’m not a serial magic competitor and unlike you guy’s, I don’t feel the need to mention my achievements to anyone that’ll listen. There’s nothing wrong with a little self-promotion, but as I told you before Tim, that’s just not my style. I’ve worked as a professional magician for over thirty-two years and have always let my work speak for itself. I’ve had no shortage of that, so I guess I must be doing something right." I wasn't aware that I was a "serial magic competitor". I have done my share of contests but since 2003 I have been in just five. Unlike you I do feel the need to promote my accomplishments which allows me to ask high fees and work where and when I want, so I guess I must be doing something right. Finally you wrote: "Since Shawn's win, I've been shocked by the number of emails I've received and some of the aggressive feelings that were vented towards him. People have sent links and even photographs with cartoon bubbles, which I believe have been doing the rounds. Personally, I just feel sorry for the guy." I too would be shocked if I were to receive emails from people with aggressive feelings being vented at an individual who does not deserve their wrath. You could easily have stated the truth and facts as I have laid them out and the issue would be mute. Personally, you should feel sorry. Russ, you closed your post with this paragraph: "I don't even dream of comparing myself to such a great technician and creator as people like Roy Walton, but like him I also smile when doing my DVD productions, working with great people who I consider real friends, performing and have a great life with someone that I truly love. No awards, no bulls**t, no thieving. Just a guy that loves magic." I'm not sure why Mr Walton's name was brought into this discussion? I too would never compare myself to such a brilliant magician and man. I just recently had the chance to meet him in person and loved the time we spent together. Just like you and Roy Walton, I love performing, creating and sharing my magic. My Wife, Daughter and I travel the globe, get paid to do what we love ... lots of awards, no bulls**t, no thieving. I'm not sure why you have decided now to protest something you had already settled. Your emails to me seemed civil and understanding. I heard nothing from you when I competed in 2006 in Sweden with the routine. Suddenly, after I win this award and am being attacked by a small group of vicious bloggers, you choose to open a discussion you basically closed. Why would you not have address this when I saw you at Blackpool? I want to thank the people, friends and strangers, who have stepped forward to defend me in this forum. I am touched by the hundreds of communiqués of support. I have spent my life as a magician trying to do the best I can. Not every show is my best but I strive to improve and elevate the art I love. I do not tear down others. A friend recently told me that "burning down your neighbors home, doesn't make yours look better." To those that think otherwise ... nothing I can say or do will change you. Sincerely, Shawn Farquhar p.s Please be patient with the length of time for my replies as I am moving throughout Asia and internet will continue to be limited. "Card magic is a pretty standard category. But Shawn Farquhar from Canada provided an interesting twist on the genre, that was both flawless and beyond imagination." CCTV - China FISM 2009 |
|||||||||
Corbett Inner circle Indiana 1161 Posts |
Congratulations on your achievement Mr. Farquhar. I enjoy your magic and style of performing a great deal.
|
|||||||||
Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
I've been dragged into this from the very beginning because:
1 - Russ Stevens emailed me because he stated he knows me as "someone who is 100% against the theft of other people's illusions and ideas". 2 - Jim McDonald emailed me saying "I feel it is important that magicians are made aware of the fiasco that is going on in the magic world to do with awarding first place to somebody who took the idea from another act then denies it." and linking me to the Weekly Magic Failure blog. I looked at the WMF blog and saw rants, raves, accusations and a character assassination of Shawn Farquhar that staggered me. I finally got to see Russ Steven's 'Shape of My Heart' routine and, in my opinion, it is a very different routine. However, because I didn't side with Russ I'm being told I'm "defending my friend" (Shawn) and "defending my decision" (as a judge at FISM). IF Shawn was inspired to create a routine to the music 'Shape of my Heart' after seeing Russ Steven's act, then that's ALL he can be accused of. Unless you write the music yourself, you really can't make a claim if someone else uses it for a routine. It's not as if he decided to do Snowstorm to the music from Edward Scissorhands or fast-paced dove productions to music by Cirque du Soleil. Even on the Gala Show at FISM we had Peter Marvey doing Flying and, during his routine, use a grab of music that Copperfield uses. If Shawn did card productions or used a card sword to 'Shape of My Heart'... that would be a different matter. Almost every magician I know, on hearing 'Shape of My Heart' for the first time has said "Wow, I want to create a card routine to that song". Cyril performed card manipulations to it one year at FISM, I even created a routine similar to Shawn's (without seeing Russ's) back in the 1990's when I first heard it as well. I feel very sorry for Russ that people will see his routine and think he copied Shawn, just as I feel sorry for Shawn that people will see his routine and think he copied Russ. At FISM this year we had two young magicians in the stage comp doing CD manipulation acts that looked almost identical (though they used very different music) but was one copying the other? (I'm glad I wasn't on the stage jury having to figure that out). It's very important that magicians try to come up with unique routines to make them stand out from the others, but it's inevitable that some magicians will see the success of others and copy their routines to try to have the same success (as one "pro" magician here in Australia is prone to do... and as he gets on TV a lot, people see my routines and think I've copied him... so I'm well aware of how both Russ and Shawn feel, but in my case the copying is far more obvious). Russ - please stop assuming that my friendship with Shawn or my position on the jury has anything to do with my opinion that your claim that Shawn copied your act is not true. I've now seen both acts and, as I said before, I think they are both very different and the worst I could accuse Shawn of is seeing your act and saying "Hey, I could do something quite different to that song". Someone asked if you could put both acts on the same show. You could, but would you put two Zombie balls or two linking ring acts on the same show? Of course not. I hardly think that's a standard by which to determine intellectual theft.
www.MagicUnlimited.com
www.timellismagic.com Visit our online shop for instant downloads and ebooks https://shop.timellismagic.com/ Blog - www.magicunlimited.typepad.com |
|||||||||
MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts |
I don't know Russ or Shawn but I don't really think I'd want to after reading all this! I have now watched both videos and there certainly appears to be a difference in my eyes (with exception of the song..... oh and playing cards)!
For cryin out loud, these are frikking card tricks! MMc |
|||||||||
abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
WOW. I should have read this thread before. This is more entertaining than "Days of our lives"
Michael Schumacher is the best F1 racing driver in the history of F1. He is also the most critisized. Beckham is one of the best footballers in the modern game. He is also the most critisized. I guess we can start seeing a trend here. Shawn should know that this is never going to stop. The highest trees get the most wind. When I danced competitively my coach said to me "Every time you get critisized by someone after you won, take it as a compliment because some people just don't know how to give compliments" |
|||||||||
spatlind Special user still moving 863 Posts |
Schumacher yes.
Beckham, not even close..
Actions lie louder than words - Carolyn Wells
I believe in God, only I spell it Nature - Frank Lloyd Wright. |
|||||||||
JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4190 Posts |
...at least here I've an opinion: Spatlind is right, most magicians seem to be a cage full of fools... Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
|||||||||
Eric Leclerc Inner circle Ottawa Ontario 1185 Posts |
Magicians helping magicians huh?
this thread reminded me of the reason I have not logged on here for months... |
|||||||||
lou serrano Special user Los Angeles, CA 671 Posts |
It seems that anytime a person attains any level of success, there are always others, waiting by the sidelines, that are ready to tear that person down. Achieve success... become a target for the selfish and insecure. The sad part about it all, is that the misguided people that are tearing down others are desperately trying to build themselves up.
Here is a word of encouragement to those that seek success. "The strongest oak tree of the forest is not the one that is protected from the storm and hidden from the sun. It's the one that stands in the open where it is compelled to struggle for its existence against the winds and rains and the scorching sun." - Napoleon Hill Respectfully Lou Serrano |
|||||||||
russ stevens Special user Russ Stevens 571 Posts |
Put yourself in my shoes.
I am accused of stealing Shawn Farquhar’s routine. I prove to Shawn that I didn’t. He concedes. We accept at that time that we both created similar routines by coincidence based on what he told me (which on reflection is ironic now). Shawn told me he’d not seen my routine when he developed his. It now transpires that he had seen it. I quote: “In 1994 I was in England with Francis Martineau and Russ gave us a copy of his promo tape It was in pal.The conversion to NTSC at that time was more than I wanted to pay. So at a meeting a few months later ( could have been early 1995) I asked Shawn if he wanted to pay half; and we both ended up with a viewable copy.It is possible he had forgotten.I mean 14 years has passed”. Reg Donnelly (Reg Donenelly was traveling with magic illustrator Frank Martinaeu and I met them both in Blackpool in 1994). Shawn Farquhar then enters the world’s most prestigious magic competition with a routine based on my routine (that he denied) and wins. It is simply unethical, that’s all. Our routines (the ‘tricks’) aren’t the same, but owe their impact to the same staging and music. The music and staging accounts for 60% or 70% of the worth of the piece. If I told you I was entering a silent dove/manipulation act into FISM and was going to use Vivaldi’s Four Seasons for backing would everyone not understand that that piece ‘belonged’ to Lance Burrton? Or that David Copperfield’s presentation of the Dancing Cane to Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue made that piece of music ‘his’ when used in a Dancing Cane routine? Please understand that I don’t dare compare myself to these brilliant performers, but it’s exactly the same. For me that’s what putting an act together is all about. You start with ‘you’ add the tricks and music and then random items become a ‘whole’, a ‘piece’, theatre… Look at Jeff McBride’s original card routine. Fantastic! Performed to Joe Sample’s Carmel. I wouldn’t have dreamt of taking that piece of music in a million years. Jeff had made it his. And I respected that. I think Shawn Farquhar has behaved disgracefully. If he’d said all along that he’d seen my act, and was going to rework it for himself by using a close-up card trick on stage instead of my card manipulation sequence that would have been one thing. But to have deceived me all along is really something else. That is what has been hurtful the most. He can keep his awards, as they really have no interest to me. This has not been a pleasurable experience and is something I would rather not have done. All I ever wanted was for people to know the truth and now you do. I stand by everything I wrote in the post that started this thread. That’s all I wanted to say. Best, Russ |
|||||||||
Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-05 18:59, dfield wrote: You seem to me to do what is called projective psychology. You seem to expect your prejudices to be shared by everyone. I cannot talk about the FISM because I was not there, but I can talk about the café because I do know. I would agree with you that we cannot prevent negative preposterous ignorants of your kind to post but the majority of the posts on the café have become positive and constructive, apart from the few people like you who fortunately are a minority. I consider Whit Haydn and Pete Biro (who play an important role in the Magic Castle and have a professional life to speak for them as "big guys"), Bill Palmer with his cups and balls museum and vast knowledge, Tim Ellis, Bob Sheets, Paul Gertner... to be part of the top people that you claim have left the café; and they positively post and share more knowledge than you do (fortunately and for good reason). And I've know very personally Fred Kaps, Tony Slydini, Fred Robinson, Derek Dingle, Al Goshman, Herb Zarrow, Tommy Wonder, Bob Read, Arturo Ascanio, Christian Fechner and received at my home in Paris people like Max Maven, Michael Weber, Gaetan Bloom, David Berglas, Juan Tamariz, René Lavand, Tom Mullica, David Williamson, David Stone, Johnny Thompson..., and personally met and spent time with Ricky Jay, Bill Kalush, David Blaine, Bill Palmer, Pete Biro, Steven Youell, Curtis Kam, Vinny Marini, ... and I can confirm that magic has not regressed but keeps on progressing under such new masters Please stop judging everything from your little hill: it is indecent to have to read the prejudices of a dwarf self promoting himself as a judge of giants and measuring them at the level of his short vision. I can only encourage you to start posting positive advice, to consider sharing thoughtful ideas and to envision promoting the helpful atmosphere which exists in the café despite people like you who, so far but fortunately, didn't have much to say. I wish to extend my congratulations to Shawn Farquhar. (Even if his performance was under his usual level as some posters claim, he is a wonderful magician and I'm pleased that his serious work got recognized.)
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
|
|||||||||
Corbett Inner circle Indiana 1161 Posts |
Can we lock this post already? This poor horse has been beaten already. FISM is over. Awards have been awarded. I think all that can be said, has been said. Thank you, and good night.
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » New World Champion » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.15 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |