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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Did you hear the latest? » » Russ Stevens - Shape of My Heart Routine » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Andi Peters
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On 2009-08-08 18:50, Doug Peters wrote:
Um Andi? It just might be because Russ wasn't the inspiration for Shawn's act? Note that Shawn does publicly acknowledge that Russ was using the music before he was. But Shawn says that he discovered that fact after he had developed his own routine. Just sayin'.

Credit goes to the one who did it first. Them's the rules. Play by them or play another game!
Tim Ellis
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Quote:
On 2009-08-08 13:15, Andi Peters wrote:
I have heard a rumour on the magical grapevine that the FISM judges are getting together over the phone to discuss the matter. Has anyone else heard the same?


No
Doug Peters
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Quote:
On 2009-08-08 18:54, Andi Peters wrote:
Credit goes to the one who did it first. Them's the rules. Play by them or play another game!

Please re-read what you said when I responded to you. Shawn gave Russ credit for the thing he did first. Russ used the music first. Shawn acknowledged that. No foul.
"if you have any answers, it's time to ask harder questions!"
JohnHoudi
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When it comes to this matter I wonder what would happen and how everybody would react if it was the other way around. If a magician from Europe won FISM and one hot shot magician from Northern America was in Russ’ shoes?

I Agree with Russ that it would be impossible to present a dove act at a FISM using The Four Seasons.
Magicians love to spot the original. One of the things we spoke about concerning Sweden’s Charlie Caper was that the FISM audience probably would spot Gazzo with Charlies cups & balls routine. We were afraid that in FISM micro magic Sweden’s Johan Stahl would be beaten for ”stealing Rick Merril’s routine” when he used a pen and some sleeving in his routine.

I, on the other hand, have to deal a lot in a similar way of Russ and Shawn. I loved the love theme from the soundtrack of the movie ”Cousins” that David Copperfield uses for his Grandpa’s Aces routine. I thought it would be great to use it together with card manipulations.
A clip of that routine can be found on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbVc5xz0M1Y

You have no idea how many remarks I have gotten about me ”stealing Copperfields trick” from both well known magicians and unknown. I actually had to ask the guy who uploaded the clip on YouTube to remove some of them and all of the threats and extremely bad words over my person. It didn’t look good if people was searching for me and could read I am a copycat of the worst degree.

As I see it Copperfield performed McDonald’s Aces to the song and used a video camera. I performed a back-palm routine. Different, yes. But in so many eyes I’m ripping off Copperfield.

The fun part of it all is that the routine Copperfield use is an adaption of Alain Choquette’s routine. Alain used the same music and Copperfield kept it when he bought the rights.

So, I’m not making a standpoint between Russ or Shawn (but I have my opinion and I will keep it to myself) but again I would like to stress the point: If the FISM-winner was unknown and independently developed a routine that Shawn have used for years; How would the magic fraternity react?

/John Houdi
Stucky
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Funny thing is John, a lot of us discuss "borrowing" where I am from, and it seems this trend to jump on people is fairly popular because the internet helps it spread like a virus quicker.

When Lance won FISM, he used A little Channing and a LOT of Shimada. I bet there were a lot of people up in arms.. but no one knew it. Of course, now Lance is a legend and no one would EVER think of copying him... but he was/is an amalgam of a few performers himself. In this day and age, he might have been ripped a new one as well for doing his now famous act.

Where do we seriously draw the line and just get on with our lives I ask you?
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Doug Peters
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A little perspective from the world of "Intellectual Property" (I'm no lawyer, but I do have a few patents... and yes, I understand that patents are only an analogy to magic, and analogies are not conclusive... )

When you file a patent, the "claims" of the patent indicate what you want to protect.

If Russ' routine were a patent, his lawyers would want him to "claim" a staged card routine set to the music "Shape of my Heart". (Lawyers prefer the claims to be as broad as possible, because it naturally makes the patent as "strong" as possible)

The Patent Office would consider this claim, and they may conclude that it was too broad. One criterion for such a conclusion would be "if most people trained in the art would think of it, then it is too obvious". Or, in particular: if most people trained in the art of magic could imagine a staged card routine set to the music "Shape of my Heart", then the "broad" claim is illegitimate. The Patent Office would send the patent application back, and the lawyers would make a more specific claim. For example: a staged card manipulation routine culminating in a card sword set to the music "Shape of my Heart". Understand that the lawyers would do this reluctantly, as it reduces the strength of the patent.

Another facet of the patent approval process that might be of interest is the concept of "publication date". Yes, it has been established that Russ "published" (i.e., performed) his routine before Shawn. But another point that the Patent Office would consider is the timing of the claim filing. For example, the Patent Office would not consider an application that was filed fourteen years after the fact -- especially when the claim coincides with a competitors sudden success! (seriously!) In other words, if an alleged theft of intellectual property was not considered worth prosecuting when the competition is unsuccessful, it is not considered legitimate if it coincides with that competition's sudden success.

Please understand that I am sympathetic to both parties. I'm just trying to point out that the case is far more nuanced than some people are implying.

cheers, Doug
"if you have any answers, it's time to ask harder questions!"
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