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John C
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Do you mind Scott if I post what YOU REALLY sent me via PM?

John

Actually, scrap that above. I never was interested in a dustup. You seem to be. I don't have time for nonsense anyway.

I think those that are happy with my stuff will be able to decipher your words and meaning and ... besides, I said I would give you the last word.

Good luck my friend in all your future ventures.

j
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Scott F. Guinn
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OK, then here is my last word. I didn't want to get in a "dust up" either. Does that mean that I am not allowed to express my opinion? In our PM exchange, you encouraged me to do so in the forums. I can only assume that you are referring to the fact that I mentioned my own version of PN and that I'm coming out with a new manuscript in collaboration with Richard Busch, and that I said I thought it had some strong points your version didn't have but that we still aren't calling it the "ultimate last word." I stand by that. If you only want people who think yours is the best version ever to post, you should have said so.

I have had people say critical things of my material, too. Some people hated my books and DVD. Others liked them. All part of the process of putting stuff on the market.

I try to be a fair and honest guy, and I think most of the folks who've been on The Café for a while know that. You seem to think this is personal, or that it's because we both have versions of the same trick for sale. I can assure you that's not the case. Carl Andrews has a table-hopping C&B routine, as do I. I think his is very good. Whit Haydn has a version of Red Hot Mama on the market, as do I. I think his is very good.

The issue I have with these two routines is that they are virtually identical to material that is already out there (pre-dated by 22 years and 14 years), yet you are calling them the "ultimate last word." That's it. It's not because of what routines they are or because your name is John Cesta. If they were different routines and your name was Joe Shmoe, I'd have the same issues. End of story. That's my last word, which you promised to give me.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page
John C
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The ULTIMATE Last Word! hmmm ... I like it!

John Cesta
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
ritty360
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Well, I feel ripped off for sure. I sent about three emails to John telling him I actually perform a version of this effect with the very same prop used in this effect. I asked him if this is how it is done, I will stick with my version. No reply. So, I buy and and sure enough, it is the very same.

I didn't need this and now I don't want it...thanks for nothing...
AlluTallu
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So why did you buy this ritty? You already knew how to do this so why did you throw your money out of the window? I see no logic in that.

-Aleksi
John C
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Quote:
On 2009-08-26 16:12, ritty360 wrote:
Well, I feel ripped off for sure. I sent about three emails to John telling him I actually perform a version of this effect with the very same prop used in this effect. I asked him if this is how it is done, I will stick with my version. No reply. So, I buy and and sure enough, it is the very same.

I didn't need this and now I don't want it...thanks for nothing...


That is simply NOT TRUE ritty. Not true. I answer EVERY ONE. Every email, I go out of my way.

Simply NOT TRUE!!

Your questions to me ritty are right in this thread. As you can see I answered each and every one. I do not own either of the TP effects. And from what I've heard I doubt they are the same method as mine.



John
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Scott F. Guinn
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I want to make one thing absolutely clear, because I've received a few messages from some folks. I do not mean any disrespect toward John and I'm sorry if that is what I implied in my posts--it certainly was not my intent. John has replied to my messages every time. While we disagree on some points, I have never meant to bring his character or integrity into question. I apologize here publicly to you, John, if you felt in any way that was the case. I repeat: that has never been my intent.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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Floyd Collins
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John congrats on your release.
Is this anything like Greg Arce version??? Seems there are other versions out there if you simplified them then hats off to you John.

--Floyd
No one said it would be easy, or did they?

Check out my all new book "Chicken Scratches" visit my lulu store for more information.

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/thecenterstage

http://www.collinscomedymagic.com
John C
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No not like Greg's. Greg Arce is world class. I have his Cash Out routine and it kicks ... well you know!

I like to think I simplified it. And in MY mind that's why I call it ULTIMATE because it's the one I Ultimately use after perusing through several variations from various creators and thinkers.

And by golly if there are others out there that think the way THEY routine an effect is the ULTIMATE then don't be afraid to say so!! Buddy Rich, Mr. Humble, the greatest drummer that ever lived taught me that.


Thanks Floyd! I appreciate your remarks.

John
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
ritty360
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I can resend you the email if you'd like. I sent it using your website after your email to the purchaser of of ultimiate Positive Negative.

I posed in the my email to you a very specific question that would have not revealed methods. Saying "Maybe so, Maybe not" in your response...yes that is a reply....

Alexhi, I was looking for the ULTIMATE TP...I was hoping to have a more streamlined version than the one I perform now. Yes, I did think the grass was greener...I was wrong.

Sorry I was a prick in that previous post.
John C
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Yea, then send it. I don't remember that. I answered your questions to the best of my ability without exposing methods. I ALWAYS refer folks to my description so they can read EXACLTY how the routine will go down. It's a standard way of delivering a magic trick etc. It has been for me for 20 years anyway.

But, the reason I said maybe, maybe not is because YES you need a wallet unless you have another tool that serves the same purpose and that's what I said.

Sorry you were dissapointed. I am glad that the majority of others here were not. And, I am glad that some that had previous versions of this effect have publicly stated that THIS one is the one they use now. I guess to each their own.

BTW, I am not AlexHi.

John
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Mac_Stone
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Quote:
On 2009-08-26 11:08, JSBLOOM wrote:
I have the original. I was told by a seller the lewis new version requires every single prediction to be removed by the magician.


Not true. All but the final prediction are removed by spectators, and by then who really cares anyway?

One thing people are missing about Martin Lewis' new version is that you are getting an INCREDIBLY useful utility gimmick.
JSBLOOM
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Mac,

Let me rephrase, the envelopes can not be opened by the spectator AND remove the prediction. The spectator does NOT handle them,right?

IMHO, The beauty of the original routine is asking them to open up the envelope and remove the prediction as well as having the final prediction come from the envelope.
chrismatt
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Why would you read any of my
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Quote:
On 2009-08-26 11:08, JSBLOOM wrote:
CM,
From what I have read, it has not come full circle.....9 Envelopes to do an effect that can actually be done with 3 normal envelopes and no funky stand!
9 Envelopes IMHO seems over kill to me.
I have the original. I was told by a seller the lewis new version requires every single prediction to be removed by the magician. I gaffed my stand.
John has said they can remove the envelope and prediction. This be true,logic tells me he is NOT showing them 6 envelopes on one side, right?
Could it be the Miller Miracle 6 way wallet? NOT.


It sounds like you do not have the original, which I cited to in Martin's book (see my previous post) and which did not employ a gaffed stand.

CM
Details make perfection, but perfection is no detail.
chrismatt
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Respectfully submitted (for your disapproval, perhaps):

The problem of invention and attribution in Magic is an oft' recurring one. It is the result of the unfortunate, but strongly perpetuated Maxim of the Art: "The secret is what you're paying for," which is a perversion of the basic "Magician's Code" of "Never tell how your trick is done."

I use the words "unfortunate" and "perversion" because the Magician's Code should be confined to the relationship between Performer and Audience, not between fellow practitioners of the Art.

This Dark Ages mentality of secrecy among and between its practitioners has the unfortunate result of fostering ignorance and retarding development in, as well as causing acrimony among those who purportedly share a love for, our Curious Little Art. What a waste of time, words and emotions!

I only cited to Martin's original trick in my post above to see if John's version was significantly different. I try to avoid spending money on things I already have or I will not use. This remains a major challenge in our field, both because of the commercial interests of the dealers and because of the deeply held and sincere beliefs of our fellow practitioners.

CM
Details make perfection, but perfection is no detail.
JSBLOOM
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CM,
I actually do not. It is my own version. My stand is no bigger than an index card folded in half so this baby is very porteable Smile
IMHO, for stage nothing is wrong with the original. Do the move when the lady is removing her prediction because all eyes will be on her. If need be, add extra envelopes below the colored ones so the move can be done easier.
You can even write gags on the white ones like:
No, NOT THAT ONE!
Would you like to change your mind or are you happy with the mind you have?
Thanks -ALOT!
WRONG ONE

Obviously there are pros and cons with each "take" on the effect. Some get rid of the angle problems, but this means either gaffed envelopes or the prediction OR coming out from something other than the envelope.
It all depends upon each person's personal preferance and a lot of people really like John's effect.






Best,
Jeff
John C
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I agree with you 100% Jeff and thanks for the remark about my idea for this effect.

Let me make my routine as clear as I can. The 3 envelopes RED, YELLOW and GREEN are NOT GAFFED in ANY way. You can give them away.

The specs pull the predictions out of the envelopes they picked: The RED, GREEN and YELLOW ones and read them aloud.

The final prediction comes from the wallet or other "tool" you wish to use. There are only two choices you really have to worry about with regard to the prediction.

In on instance the spectator can remove the prediction envelope from the wallet and read it.

In ohter instances the spec can remove the envelope from the wallet, the performer opens it and dumps the contents into the specs hand AND gives the spec the envelope to eat or take home as a souvenier.

I hope that makes it clear as far as logistics and what is gaffed and not gaffed.

Thanks to CODY FISHER and Paolo Cavalli and Stephan O and others that are having FUN with this idea.



John
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
JSBLOOM
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John,
You are welcome.
IMHO, you have been as up front as any one could ask.
Bottom line, they should know what they are getting and where the final prediction comes from.
a 6 way miller mircle wallet would be pretty cool, woudn't it?
Magic regards,
Jeff
John C
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Quote:
On 2009-08-27 11:02, JSBLOOM wrote:
John,
You are welcome.
IMHO, you have been as up front as any one could ask.
Bottom line, they should know what they are getting and where the final prediction comes from.
a 6 way miller miracle wallet would be pretty cool, wouldn't it?
Magic regards,
Jeff

I only need two - HIMBER.

But for other versions a 6 way yes.

j
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
JSBLOOM
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ALCON,
The above post should clearly let anyone know what they will be getting and what is needed.
Out from here!
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