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ritty360
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I don't know. In working with this more and even Postive Negative, I don't like either of them. John, your PN version's biggest flaw is that it is a step backward from even the original. The beauty of this effect was that organic nature of the outcome. It was as if moments before the event, the prediction was written.

I believe Tobias Beckwith has the best adaptation of this effect. It can be found in Mystery School. It retains the organic nature of PN with a more concise outcome.

Just my opinions. Again, I am sorry for being so critical, but it is my efforts to always retain an organic feel to what I an performing. These adaptations, I feel remove a level of that comfort I have.
John C
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Quote:
On 2009-08-27 15:49, ritty360 wrote:
I don't know. In working with this more and even Postive Negative, I don't like either of them. John, your PN version's biggest flaw is that it is a step backward from even the original. The beauty of this effect was that organic nature of the outcome. It was as if moments before the event, the prediction was written.

I believe Tobias Beckwith has the best adaptation of this effect. It can be found in Mystery School. It retains the organic nature of PN with a more concise outcome.

Just my opinions. Again, I am sorry for being so critical, but it is my efforts to always retain an organic feel to what I an performing. These adaptations, I feel remove a level of that comfort I have.


Not being critical, It's your right. No one can MAKE you like it. I don't like liver, never have.

Thanks,
J
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Thaumaturge
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It all seems to have gone a little off track really.

I picked up John Ultimate + - and really loved the working. I bought Ultimate tech prediction and loved the handling and version of this (sorry, but who really cares about the title, its the working that's of interest!). There are minimal props to carry, and, god forbid, its a different method to an old trick, but does this automatically make it bad??? Well no, it really doesn't.

Each to their own, but as a fairly new comer to the Café I've found some pretty silly comments on a lot of marketed effects.
This is a review section, and whether good or bad, things should be kept, I feel, as unbiased as possible.
And now....

back on track.
Thaumaturge
John C
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Quote:
On 2009-08-27 18:20, Thaumaturge wrote:
It all seems to have gone a little off track really.

I picked up John Ultimate + - and really loved the working. I bought Ultimate tech prediction and loved the handling and version of this (sorry, but who really cares about the title, its the working that's of interest!). There are minimal props to carry, and, god forbid, its a different method to an old trick, but does this automatically make it bad??? Well no, it really doesn't.

Each to their own, but as a fairly new comer to the Café I've found some pretty silly comments on a lot of marketed effects.
This is a review section, and whether good or bad, things should be kept, I feel, as unbiased as possible.
And now....

back on track.


Thaumaturge, thanks and glad you like it. I performed UTP at a Detention Center today about 5 times. It slayed. I volunteer at a detention center once a month on like a career day and go in and perform magic mind reading for 4 different age groups.

If you all ever get a chance to do that you should take it. It's very rewarding.

John
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
John C
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On 2009-08-26 23:39, JSBLOOM wrote:
Mac,

Let me rephrase, the envelopes can not be opened by the spectator AND remove the prediction. The spectator does NOT handle them,right?

IMHO, The beauty of the original routine is asking them to open up the envelope and remove the prediction as well as having the final prediction come from the envelope.


In ULTIMATE Technicolor Prediction the RED GREEN and YELLOW envelopes handed to the spectators CAN be opened by them. The prediction that says, I knew I would pick the yellow envelope cab also be removed and read by the spectator. And they can take them home.

So too can the final prediction envelope be removed from the wallet by the spectators and one of the predictions INSIDE the prediction envelope may be removed. SO, it's pretty flexible.

j
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JSBLOOM
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J,
My post was in referance to Lewis's newest effect.
By now, all should now that your effect is wonderful and uses a wallet.
It is that simple
John C
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JS, you can never be too sure.

I still have people PM me because they are confused as to the EXACT workings. Some here in the thread are discussing other versions of the effect and not mentioning what effect they are talking about. There is confusion as to the envelopes, meaning the RED, YELLOW and GREEN envelopes that are handed out to specs VS the prediction envelope that is kept in the wonderful wallet.

While YOU may be clear, some others are not. Just skip over my rantings. Smile

J
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Lord Of The Horses
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Quote:
On 2009-08-25 15:55, parmenion wrote:
It's sound to me like one of Paolo idea.
So, the wallet here is essential.
Am I wrong John ?


Parmenion,

Yes, the original idea with 3 billets rather than 6 comes from my Sigma book.

John Cesta asked for permission to use it and I said yes.

------


However for the people objecting to the function of the envelopes in John's version...

The envelopes here should be part of the GAG, and should be sold as such.

However, you don't need a wallet (no, even if it were a 6-Ways Miller because in that case I would still go with a Predator and then - why not having 10 people choosing 10 envelopes...?) and you don't need 6 outs.

Once again, 3 is the magic number here!


You could use my Flytrap gimmick, you could use a slit envelope and a billet index (well, billet index is too much of a misnomer for a place in which to keep ONLY 3 billets!)

I take that you know what do with the slit envelope and the correct billet! Smile

But those are MY ideas and options - If John wants to go with the wallet, and as he said - for him - this is HIS ULTIMATE version, good for him!

Now - nobody is forcing you guys to buy this. But John's description of the effect, even before you knew the method, was very upfront. You should not come in here after ... and tell that you did not know you needed a wallet (Once again - if you switch to one of the methods I have suggested above for free... you won't need a wallet!)
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
Callisto
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A very good improvement ot he routine of M. Lewis
Leeman
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Martin Lewis has a new version of TCP that requires only three envelopes and that's all, no boards or wallets. It is a great addition since everything is self contained. I used the version with the board all the time and eventually switched to the pocket version after seeing Martin Lewis lecture and perform at the Magic Castle a couple of months ago. Below is a link to a description of the new version, I did a show a couple of nights ago and hopefully I can post a clip of the routine in action in the next few days. Just a note for anybody still using the board. It was mentioned in an old set of Martin Lewis lecture notes, where technicolor prediction was described to write something on the back of the board to help disguise the gimmick. If you know how it works try this. I made my own board and attached a piece of poster board to the back so that it is attached along its length in the middle. The idea is that I can still reach between the board proper and the attached back and remove the final prediction. This way I can show the board front and back and even up close there is nothing to see. Also on the back I wrote "Applause" and would hold it up at the end. It added a nice laugh and showed the back and gave a reason to have the board.


Check out this link for the Martin Lewis Pocket Technicolor Prediction

http://www.hanklee.org/xcart/product.php......0d7687f1
Lord Of The Horses
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The revealing of the prediction (only judging by Hank Lee's blurb example) seems THE SAME idea I wrote in my Sigma book.


Leeman,

One question about the envelopes - Who opens each envelope, you or your participants?
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
Leeman
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The magician opens the envelopes, although for the first two the spectator could open the envelope the magician would just have to hold on to it while they open and remove the prediction. For the first two the spectator can remove the prediction and see that there is nothing left inside the envelope (I have never done this, I just remove the prediction and hand it to them), for the last envelop the magician removes the prediction. The predictions are written on the same color paper as the envelope so that it is still visible which color each person took.
Lord Of The Horses
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Thank you, Leeman.

This is as I thoguht it was.

So, even John's idea (or is it my idea... I'm confused now! ...John... You thief! Smile) could be applied to any clean two-ways envelope or even to John's Ultimate Positive Negative.

Just think on your feet, and you'll get how, John...

Without any wallet (even if I know you cherish your gimmicked wallets... ) and no extra envelopes needed.
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
John C
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Quote:
On 2009-09-16 18:53, Lord Of The Horses wrote:
Thank you, Leeman.

This is as I thoguht it was.

So, even John's idea (or is it my idea... I'm confused now! ...John... You thief! Smile) could be applied to any clean two-ways envelope or even to John's Ultimate Positive Negative.

Just think on your feet, and you'll get how, John...

Without any wallet (even if I know you cherish your gimmicked wallets... ) and no extra envelopes needed.


I don't know if these are compliments or what!@

And there's no such thing as a gimmicked wallet, they're made that way!


j

PS: Hey, Paolo, you leave a little crumb in your Sigma book and I'll stick my beak in it!
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Lord Of The Horses
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Smile

Seriously, John...

Now... have you thought to combine one idea with the other idea ... just in case your most esteemed buyers of BOTH of your ULTIMATE products don't know how to put the things together?

MY PREDICTION : I AM ULTIMATELY POSITIVE THAT NO NEGATIVES SHOULD ARISE WHEN COMBINING TECHNICOLOR!
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
chrismatt
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This effect can be accomplished with the Ss opening the envelopes they choose (without the M touching or holding them) and the envelope left for the M being seen as empty. This (my) version does require a very different envelope and set-up from the Lewis-Porstmann version.

I may post a description of this in Inner Thoughts when I'm no longer performing it.

This routine is conceptually similar to many of the "Chair" routines and, therefore, appeals to those of us who are fans of those. I find it makes a quick and entertaining opener.

CM
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PsiDroid
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Whatcha talking bout chrissmatt ??
Ustaad
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Quote:
On 2009-09-16 22:26, chrismatt wrote:
This effect can be accomplished with the Ss opening the envelopes they choose (without the M touching or holding them) and the envelope left for the M being seen as empty. This (my) version does require a very different envelope and set-up from the Lewis-Porstmann version.


Very nice idea! . . . but how Smile Smile

Smile
P.S. To begin with there are three loaded envelopes. Each (of the two) spectator is allowed to freely choose & open the envelopes they choose without the mentalist touching or holding them.(?)
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John C
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With UTP no one ever asks to SEE what's inside the left over envelope so for all they know ... it's empty. They have enjoyed the GAG and that's the crux of phase ONE.

Often, not always, I even remove the card in my left over envelope and read it to say I knew you would choose the XXXXXX envelope. So, I'm correct three times.

All this stuff about this way better, that way better is in OUR minds. Non of it: whether your envelope is empty, not empty etc is relevant to the audience. The only releveant portion is YOUR prediction at the conclusion. The fact that you KNEW what the ULTIMATE outcome would be.

IMO there are two phases to this routine: 1) The gag 2) The ULTIMATE reading of the prediction, the fact that you knew. I suppose 3 phases if you take into consideratoin the bits of biz DURING the 2 parts.

All this said and qualified with IMHO!

J
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chrismatt
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If and when I post my version (accomplished with the Ss opening the envelopes they choose without the M touching or holding them and with the envelope left for the M being seen as empty), you can judge for yourselves.

CM
Details make perfection, but perfection is no detail.
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