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Woodfield
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John, I believe your right about the final prediction being the most relevant.
But in my opinion the principle that Paolo suggests, is too close to the linguistic ambiguity used in the gag. In Martin Lewis' original routine, the final prediction is absolutely clear, "The gentleman will select the green envelope, the lady will select the red envelope, and I will be left with the yellow envelope."

I think the tradeoff of ease of method to deceptiveness is to great here.

Just my thoughts,

Woodfield
Lord Of The Horses
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Quote:
On 2009-09-20 09:14, Woodfield wrote:
John, I believe your right about the final prediction being the most relevant.
But in my opinion the principle that Paolo suggests, is too close to the linguistic ambiguity used in the gag. In Martin Lewis' original routine, the final prediction is absolutely clear, "The gentleman will select the green envelope, the lady will select the red envelope, and I will be left with the yellow envelope."

I think the tradeoff of ease of method to deceptiveness is to great here.

Just my thoughts,

Woodfield



Well, that's only because these are still two different things...

But if you really want to use only 3 envelope and one clear prediction, this is really easy to set-up.

I'm not implying nor denying that this new version from Martin Lewis is not great and straight to the point...

It is.

But the truth is that if we are to discuss "strenght" of an effect, and if I had to use "gimmicked envelopes" and clean prediction, I would rather prefer other plots and routines like, any Max Maven's effect (Coupon Capers is just one!) or any other three envelope prediction (too many to name now, because almost any working Mentalist has came up with his own version and twist).
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
Woodfield
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I was purposely vague in my post to not expose methods.
But, anyone who performs this better give some thought as to how
the gag predictions are worded. Is it, "I predict you will select the green envelope", or "You will select the green envelope", or "I predict you will select the green envelope". See the potential problem if you have to resort to the out?

I'm of the opinion that the priciple in question is the most deceptive when the outcomes aren't revealed(known to the audience and performer) until the prediction is read.

I would like to say the envelope is a great idea with UPN.

Woodfield
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Quote:
On 2009-09-20 19:49, Woodfield wrote:
But, anyone who performs this better give some thought as to how
the gag predictions are worded. Is it, "I predict you will select the green envelope", or "You will select the green envelope", or "I predict you will select the green envelope". See the potential problem if you have to resort to the out?



Which gag prediction? John Cesta's?

Because with my first idea I did not need ANY gag prediction...

BUT if I had, I would simply skip the I and YOU... That's it!

Easy as a pie to word it in other ways, IF you only ponder for a moment or two... Smile
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Woodfield
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I was referring to the gag predictions in the colored envelopes that the spectators take out and read.
Woodfield
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I was too.
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Woodfield
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Okay, how would you word the predictions in the colored envelopes (Ultimate Technicolor Prediction) without using "you" or "I" ?
Lord Of The Horses
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Hey... That's not fair!

I must keep this undercover in case John's kids need some new wardrobe... Smile

Really, it's so simple that I'm sure you can come up with your way (and infact I'm not saying that my way is the only right way...It's just a way to avoid I or YOU...)
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Woodfield
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Well, I took a look at the instructions for UTP and the predictions are
"I knew you would select the green envelope" and so forth.
The spectator reads this. After the laughs you now have the second spectator who selected an envelope read the real prediction (from the wallet) which states "I will select.....
Having the spectator read the prediction throws up a big red flag. There is not any strong justification to have the spectator read it. I had this happen in a performance for young adults who don't mind expressing their thoughts.
It was nice that the girl spoke up and said, "But how did he know which one I would pick?" But why use a method that people can deduce part of the secret
when the original Martin Lewis method was absolutely clear in the end?

My head hurts now
Lord Of The Horses
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I think you're over analyzing this a bit too much...

While what I state can be easily done, the reason you don't find that idea in John's effect is because he just took a bit out of my SIGMA (with a nod to Bandler, Grinder ... and Deddy Corbuzier) and used it for HIS OWN version of "Technicolor Prediction" that may be too simple for you but as John himself said (somewhere in one post) he likes to simple things that work for HIM.

If you want something "cleaner" - maybe not as much as envelope handling but as final impact... then you should go for the new, revised Martin Lewis TP which seem many are enthusiasts about.
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
John C
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Quote:
On 2009-09-21 20:42, Woodfield wrote:
After the laughs you now have the second spectator who selected an envelope read the real prediction (from the wallet) which states "I will select.....




First of all: No, that's not true.

Second, please refrain from dissecting the trick in this forum. Not everyone owns it ... YET!

Also, sounds like you are testing this out without rehearsing and understanding the psychology inherent in a routine such as this.

j

PS: And Paolo, thanks for considering my children's' wardrobe and backpacks.
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gboss
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Hi John,

Before I click on PayPal button:
Does the solution depend on the English language or can I translate the predictions to my language?
PsiDroid
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Any language work
gboss
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Thank you!
Ordered!
John C
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Quote:
On 2009-09-22 09:46, gboss wrote:
Thank you!
Ordered!


Sent!

Thanks

J
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Paul Rathbun
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Okay, after reading this download here is my opinion.

This is probably superior to the original because there is no weird tray. So for stage this is probably better.

For walk around or table hopping this isn't so great. You are supposed to tear an envelope open and that isn't table hopper friendly.

I would say if you are doing table hopping go with free will. If you are doing stage go with UTP.

Just my 2 cents.
John C
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Thanks Paul.

I always try and GET the woman to pick the GREEN. Then I don't have to tear anything open. Have had fairly good luck so far, but not really MADE for table hopping.

Definitely FREE WILL for table hopping. Have them pick a spoon or salt or something!

Thanks for your input.
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EventEntertainer
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For that matter why not show your wallet in the beginning and say something like "Normally I'd put money on it, but as you can see I have none".

This shows your wallet normal and may subconciously plant the idea that "money is green". I can't say for certain, but I will be playing with this!

This is what I call a great K.I.S.S. effect (Killer Impact with Simple Setup).

Thanks John!!!
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John C
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Thank YOU EE. I like the idea of "money is green"

KISS

John
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EventEntertainer
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I've tried 8 times. All 8 the female picked green. Coincidence?

Still playing with the verbage!

So far: "Who wants money? (jokingly) Yeah, who doesn't (as you open your wallet). But I do have..."
Consultant, performer, creator, and all around nice guy!
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