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Rpascual Special user USA 667 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-04 11:00, Michaelmystic2003 wrote: What do you mean by not diggin this? |
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wise owl Special user Australia 721 Posts |
Can see phoenix deck at your website?
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mayniac Special user 616 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-04 11:00, Michaelmystic2003 wrote: Nope, I'm with you. |
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts |
After taking a second look at these I too don't care for them. The phonix bird design just doesn't do it for me. To cartoonish maybe? Something more elegant would be nice.
Magic is a vanishing art.
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DJG Inner circle The northern hemisphere of Earth 1294 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-04 11:18, Card-Shark wrote: Isn't the correct saying: "If you don't go with the time, you will go WITH time"? Any free samples
Your choices in life can be compared to watching a magic trick: You can continue to believe the illusion in front of you, find the intrigue and desire to learn more, or quit paying attention the moment you feel deceived.
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Wilber New user 76 Posts |
Its unfortunate that local brick and mortar magic shops won't be able to stock these. I also think the big pip aces look very cartoonie.
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts |
Let's try to give some answers:
About the saying: perhaps you noticed already that english is not my mother language. Regarding that I always got a "D" grade in school I am doing hopefully fine with my writing. Thank you for correcting me, really. I produced the lefty deck before it was released on Bicycle stock, but more as a joke. I like the idea, but see my possibilities in other areas. If you need one printed, I can easily do that for you on Phoenix stock. About elegance. Taste is always personal, I am not saying that everyone has to like it. The same with the larger aces. Pro magicians liked them imediately when they saw the prototype, but you also get the old one if you do not share their opinion. The Bicycle deck isn't elegant at all and the angels are really looking strange and fat, but we are used to it. With all the changes at USPCC a lot of magicians open(ed) up their mind and see that there are other options and designs out there. About gaffs: Over the next few months and years you will see that there will also be more and more effects available with the Phoenix back. These will be cooperations with other magicians like Martin Lewis, Tommy Wonder (RIP), Trevor Lewis, David Solomon and others. Some effects will not even be able any longer on Bicycle cards due to the new USPCC politics. I am open to anybody who wants his effect being released on Phoenix stock. About dealers and the availability: I never said that dealers will not stock them. Just ask your local dealer and he will contact me as he can buy them directly from me with wholesale conditions. The tight price structure will make it difficult to give profit to three parties (dealer, Murphys and me), but it should be OK for two parties. Did I forget anyone? Hopefully not. Oh, preorders can be placed soon on my website. I am working on that.
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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Christopher Rinaldi Veteran user 347 Posts |
I think this deck looks good and I look forward to making the transition to these cards, so many possibilities.
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Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-04 16:24, mayniac wrote: I'm three. I'd rather use cards that laymen are familiar with. The design doesn't appeal to me. There are many better looking cards out there in my opinion. I'm one who likes to collect cards, but I'm not interrested in even collecting this. It doesn't look like a lot of thought was put into the design, although I'm sure there was. Again, I'd rather stick to decks that people are familiar with. It eliminates any suspicion that the deck is gimmicked. Besides, you can pick up a Bike deck for under $2.00, and even cheaper in bulk. I just bought 10 packs of bikes for $8.97 at Wally Mart. However, I do wish all the best.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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Voldemort Special user Florida 562 Posts |
Yeah... Unless the price can compete with the bikes that I get (Which works out to be about $1.10 a deck) I don't think I'll be that interested either. I mean its not like they have stopped making Bikes altogether. They are just limiting a few of the gaffs that can be produced. And quite frankly I don't really use anything that I can't make anyway. (Except DB'ers and DF'ers which are not in jeopardy and easier to buy than make).
But you can be sure that I'll buy a few decks just to check them out and add one to my display case. I wish you all the best.
"Flight from death"
Buy the WILD AT HEART e-book to help Rachael Columbini here: http://www.lybrary.com/wild-heart-p-76110.html |
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts |
I know that my deck printed a couple of thousand times at the first step can hardly compete with the price of a deck that is printed 20 million times per year.
My competition is more the Richard Turner deck and the Lee Asher Deck, both brought out from magicians for working magicians. The rest is philosophy and time that will tell, if the deck will be used. Unfortunately I did not experienced the time of Fox Lake, but it is funny to see an old trick from time to time with Aviator cards. I really have a vision in mind and every long journey has to start with the first step. Yes, the design process of the whole deck took more than 7 months now, a lot of changes and evolution after several discussions with a lot of other magicians. That the design ended up that way is easy: it was intended to look like an everyday deck of cards (what it definitely does) but with the most possibilities for us magicians. If the Joker looks too comic style... You are abolutely right, a king riding an old bicycle is totally differerent and classy. How can I compete with that? (just kidding) All the fancy decks that are out now allready are perfect for collectors and there is definitely a market for these. They look all very suspicious for laymen and that is why no pro uses them. My approach is different and when I introduced the deck in my lecture at FFFF, the magicians there highly welcomed the concept. I want my decks ending up in a show, not on a shelf.
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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Uli Weigel Inner circle Berlin, Germany 1478 Posts |
The big pipped aces look ugly in my opinion. Furthermore I don't think, that the big pips really increase visability. You can spot a normal ace from a long distance just as well. If I would buy a Phoenix deck, the first thing I'd do, is to throw those three aces away. IMO, some blank cards, an additional Joker or double blanks would be a better option to fill up the box.
Something about the back design and the case design strikes me the wrong way. The "Phoenix" font is too fancy for my taste. The cards a supposed to look classical but they really don't right now. Something's just not quite right, but unfortunately I can't really tell, what it is. Maybe there are some straight lines missing, which could frame the bumpy patterns. |
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts |
Uli, unfortunately you did not see the threads going on in German forums. We tried several patterns and I am sure that if you ask 5 people you will get 10 opinions.
You are all right. But in a "regular" deck of cards should be no blank cards whatsoever. Others put advertising cards or guarantees to your regular deck, I give you the option to choose the aces you would like to use. I think this is not the worst choice. Just trust me that the aces seem to look arkward on screen, but if you hold a whole Phoenix deck in your hand they just look great and make sense. But anyhow. If you cannot get warm to them: throw them out, use them for tricks whatsoever. And no: there is a difference when spotting a regular ace. All you see is a hugh white space with something black or red in the middle.
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
What colours would you do them in? I like the range put out by Anglo...i cuurently use the red&gold set...they look classy...
I never use bike brand cards, I think they are ugly, UGLY looking things..why would angels use a bike anyway? and why are the wheels not round? I used to be an illustrator many years ago - and things like that annoy me... goood luck with these - maybe an art deco design at some point in the future? in green, black and white backs? hmmmm? oh go on!
I've asked to be banned
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts |
Thank you, Iain. I also think that the Bicycle back design is not really beautiful, we are just used to it and most people just love what they know.
At the moment the color range will be standard red and blue decks, like you know them from Bicycle. I did not want to place the hurdle for a change too high. I like the colors of the Lee Asher deck in green and brown, but this would have been a too difficult decision for most Bicycle users to switch over.
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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Uli Weigel Inner circle Berlin, Germany 1478 Posts |
Christian, I did follow the threads in german forums, I just didn't say anything.
I will certainly try your cards. However, my favorite brands are Tally-Ho and Bikes and I have no reason to change, especially since I hardly ever use gaffs except the occasional double backer oder double facer. |
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EdgarWilde Regular user 120 Posts |
Three extra aces added to a deck of cards is more normal for a layman to find than an extra joker and a double-blank/blank-faced?
Extra jokers are added (as filling) to be used as card replacements for if you lose a card. Adding a few cards a la "World thinnest deck" would be more normal (people could then circle the pips they want the card to represent) than three aces (you couldn't replace a spade for one (unless you ink in the heart)). Oh, and there are two places with the one-way back info - hints on where they are, are in previous posts. I suggest that one gets dropped. Knowing it is too late anyhow, I would suggest infinity symbols instead of the "lazy eights" (that part of the design can then be brought forward/become more pronounced at a later stage on the joker with some patter ideas surrounding infinity and the phoenix; it wouldn't be completely out-of-place, just a magician's deck). |
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Voldemort Special user Florida 562 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-05 03:57, Card-Shark wrote: But what is the difference between this deck and a "Fancy" black deck or white deck to a laymen? This discussion has been had many, many times here. These are the same thing as any "Fancy" deck to a layman simply because they will not be "The norm". Don't get me wrong. I don't have the same impressions or opinions when it comes to specialty decks. I use specialty cards a bit just to mix it up and have never had anyone ask if they were "Funny". If they did ask I would simply hand the deck to them. Problem solved. But the reason that some believe that specialty decks look suspicious, Is not because of their color or design, But because they are not the same color or design as what is usual.
"Flight from death"
Buy the WILD AT HEART e-book to help Rachael Columbini here: http://www.lybrary.com/wild-heart-p-76110.html |
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts |
"usual" for you does not necessarily mean "usual" for others. Even if you think that USA is the only place to play cards or do magic and that every layman on earth uses only Bicycles, you are wrong. Even in the USA there are other brands out there like Studs, Tally Ho or Aviator for instance.
Everyday around this world there are decks printed that are not Bicycle. In whole Europe only magicians know the Bicycle brand, the same on other continents. Why do magicians use them? Because of the quality in most cases, not because of the price as they are only available at magic dealers there. In Europe normal decks look completely different and even have 4 indexes in the most cases. We are even not used to 52 cards in some countries. We magicians outside the USA are used to use decks that a layman not recognizes. And you can trust on million experiences around the globe: this is NO PROBLEM anywhere. And as I did not touch the faces (at least if you do not find the added secret) this will still be a deck that will be familiar for every Poker player.
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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Voldemort Special user Florida 562 Posts |
Doesn't seem like a good point to try to make since in fact you ARE trying to sell them to MAGICIANS in the US.
So using this train of thought I take it that magicians in Europe would have no problem using any of the specialty decks that are produced. Black Tiger decks, Karnival decks, and so on should be fine. Because if only magicians are using bikes, And your saying that bikes are not the norm in Europe, Whats the difference if a magician uses a "fancy" deck that is not the norm either. I just don't get your previous argument about "Fancy decks" if the bikes you are using now are not the norm anyway. Anyway, At least in the US, this deck sort of seems... Too close to a Bicycle deck. I don't know if that makes sense or not. But because the bike back IS so easily recognized here, Some laymen may see it as some kind of a knock off. But it sounds like in Europe it doesn't matter because the bikes you are using now are not normal. And please, I realize that there are many other kinds of cards in the world. I have many of them.
"Flight from death"
Buy the WILD AT HEART e-book to help Rachael Columbini here: http://www.lybrary.com/wild-heart-p-76110.html |
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