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Nathan Pain Inner circle iowa 2825 Posts 
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If you could really do magic why would you just make a hanky disappear in your fist?
Nathan
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Mr. Mindbender Inner circle 1566 Posts
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If you could really read minds, why would you even ask this question - you already know my answer.
;) |
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MatthewH New user 96 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-11-10 18:56, magicFreak2 wrote: Have a look at Al Straker's Sniper Pad on Outlaw's site - might fit what you want for a lot less than $300 |
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magicFreak2 Inner circle 1220 Posts
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Exactly, its the weak link. I hate the weak link, but its in every trick. Some do a clever disguising job, like Greg Rostami (Sorry if I got that name wrong), with iForce, but then the overall effect is not as strong.
I really dislike tricks where the weak link is obvious e.g. Just Think, where they write it down and then crumple it up. If they crumple it up, then what is the point of writing it down? They put two and two together and the trick is shot. With the Disappearing Card Case, why does the magician have to put the case over the cards upside down? You put 2 and 2 and get the answer. Its all the more sickening when it comes mentalism. With the TT, if you really can read minds, why do you have to write it down? And if you really can read minds, why do you have to know the answer before you can show what you wrote? With the Koran Deck, why do you have to ask questions if you already read their mind? At least questions can be easily disguised as byplay. With a Svengali deck, why can't you just hand them the deck to choose a card, why does it have to be riffled? But at least a realtime writing device would get rid of them needing to return the object. |
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aussiemagic Special user 937 Posts
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On asking questions...
What you are doing is not meant to be easy. On writing it down... So, the spectator doesn't forget, change their mind, etc etc There are plenty of ways to justify having something written down and I do not think it is a "weak link" in most situations.
How to become a professional magician:
Click here |
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magicFreak2 Inner circle 1220 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-11-11 10:30, aussiemagic wrote: Sure, but in reality, if you really could read their mind, you wouldn't need them to write it, lets face it, and even if they did cheat, they would still be internally stunned. I had hoped that Thought Chunnel by Joshua Quinn would be what I was looking for, but I was misled by a review he posted here on the Café (the one about Ant and Them). Luckily as an uber computer geek I didn't have to pay for the book (and I never pirate anything), and eventually I even made a PDA app to make it easier to do, but still, people always remember something similar to the Elephants from Denmark and it loses the touch. |
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Mr. Mindbender Inner circle 1566 Posts
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"But in reality, if you could really read minds, you wouldn't need them to write it down..."
How do you know? Sure, in some goofy sci-fi movie all you have to do is put your fingers to your temple and concentrate and voila! But that's not reality either. The point is -- YOU define the reality. Just like a writer in a good sci-fi story -- YOU create the rules. What if reading someone's mind is nearly impossible. Nearly. It usually takes two highly trained people to focus all of their mental capacities in unison for something to have a chance at working. You have absolutely no history working with the spectator. They have never seriously tried this before. You both need all the help you can get to have success at reading their mind. To increase the possibility, they need to focus on something specific, not just any random thought. To help focus, they write down the word... And on, and on you go. The point is -- no one truly knows the difficulty of reading minds. The questions you ask are legitimate, but you stop short. Anyone can ask questions. Put time into coming up with creative answers. By solving your own questions, you end up crating an effect or act that has logic, rings true to you and others, and has real entertainment power. And in a blatant attempt to get this thread back on track -- half the fun of working with Alone is answering these questions! |
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magicFreak2 Inner circle 1220 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-11-11 10:48, Mr. Mindbender wrote: I guess I can try using the concentration technique, and if I want something a little closer to reality maybe try some Hellstromism/Muscle Reading. As for Alone, I keep watching that realtime of her writing it down and him naming it over and over, is it imperative that Matt turns around, or could he just name the card as soon as she wrote it? I would think he only turned so he could maintain eye contact. |
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actorscotty Veteran user wilmington nc 398 Posts
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As for Alone, I keep watching that realtime of her writing it down and him naming it over and over, is it imperative that Matt turns around, or could he just name the card as soon as she wrote it? I would think he only turned so he could maintain eye contact.
[/quote] Just my humble 2 cents, but if you name the card immediately after the spectator writes it down , wouldn't that at least partially give away the method....Just asking |
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magicFreak2 Inner circle 1220 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-11-11 11:37, actorscotty wrote: Just my humble 2 cents, but if you name the card immediately after the spectator writes it down , wouldn't that at least partially give away the method....Just asking [/quote] Yes it would, *sigh*, I was asking for the technicalities sake, not that I would do that, so that I can be assured that looking at the spectator/pen/anything is not the weak link as discussed above. |
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magicFreak2 Inner circle 1220 Posts
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The point is all tricks have a weak link, otherwise they wouldn't be a trick, and I think the weak link is in the writing. I just want to make sure that in addition to having to write it down there is not another weak link of also having to look at them. I am already glad that the magician doesn't have to receive the cards back from the spectator.
If he doesn't need to even turn around, I am sold. |
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mattjohnson Elite user Canada 451 Posts
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No I don't need to turn around!!!
Looking forward to your order :o) Matt Johnson |
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magicFreak2 Inner circle 1220 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-11-11 14:15, mattjohnson wrote: Thanks! Sheesh the possibilities are endless if it does what I think it does which I think it does 
Expect it for Christmas! Side note: I think you will find that the number of things that American juveniles can acquire for Christmas is quite alarming. |
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KBLV Regular user Las Vegas 188 Posts
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MF2...Alone is more versatile than what you're thinking. Using the Alone technology, you can let three people each choose one of three items. Back turned. No writing. No looking at anything. You know each selection.
You're buying a tool, MF2. What you make with it is up to you. |
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chichi711 Inner circle 5810 Posts
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Magicfreak2. Just my humble opinion, but hey everyone else is putting them out there so I might as well do it as well. You are wasting your money and time with mentalism right now. If you think writing something down is a weak link then go back to studying and or doing other forms of magic. That or maybe look into other areas of mentalism , but not thought reading. You are setting your own rules and limitations you are projecting your "weak links" on spectators. And for those reasons "alone" you will never be a successful "mind reader".
In my personal opinion having someone think of something and then I immediately tell them takes out the fun and mystery for them. I actually would be extremely board if I had to sit in a theater and watch someone do that for an hour. Where is the process? How does it work? Why does it work? Why are you here in a theater trying to entertain us if this is so easy for you? My 2 cents for today. See you all again in a few months. |
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KBLV Regular user Las Vegas 188 Posts
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Whoops. Scratch my earlier assertion. You can't do what I was thinking with Alone, in the way I was thinking.
Nonetheless, it's a very interesting tool that has many different uses. Plus, it's fun to experiment with! |
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magicFreak2 Inner circle 1220 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-11-11 17:42, chichi711 wrote: I DO NOT have a problem with weak links. I get them all fine, always ends well, the problem is *I* as in me, hate tricks with obvious weak links just personally, because I am a perfectionist. The closer it is to reality, the stronger the effect will be. There are different ways to find a card, and some of them ARE more powerful then others. I feel now that Alone is powerful enough from the 4 demos I have seen so far. Its not like where you just use Carbon Paper and have to retrieve the notepad. That is what expands the possibilities. I get sick and fed up of cool ideas that only work in one way. Quote:
In my personal opinion having someone think of something and then I immediately tell them takes out the fun and mystery for them. I actually would be extremely board if I had to sit in a theater and watch someone do that for an hour. Where is the process? How does it work? Why does it work? Why are you here in a theater trying to entertain us if this is so easy for you? I never ever ever just tell them, always have some byplay; pulse reading, double climaxes etc, I just want it to be possible. Don't you just hate those superdevious supersmart tricks that make you lose the sense of enjoyment for *yourself* because the only way to come to the climax is to go through that byplay? I will use byplay/disguise, I just don't want it to be DEPENDENT on it, as too many tricks I have are. From what I have seen and heard, this one is not. Its a solid principle that I can re implement in a multitude of possibilities, as I am apt to do with tricks and devices that I truly like. |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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MagicFreak2, I would ask you to consider another hobby. You're asking for true to life miracles and those simply do not exist. Why should you get someone to write something down? For concentration purposes, the process of writing it down cements the thought in their mind, after all the way our minds work is by conditioning from repeated actions. Why take the piece of paper away then? To emphasize their mental concentration, one does not need to mentally concentrate as hard if they have it in front of them to fall back on, take it away and now they have to put forth effort to concentrate on it since the thought now only exists in their mind. Two step process, the action of writing it down is to condition their thought into their mind, taking the information away now forces them to mentally focus/concentrate on aforementioned though. Everything is justified IF you bother to justify it. Where's the weak link? The only true weak link can only be blamed on the performer for a lack of presentation and justification of actions.
As to your earlier comment about which hand is it in effects, it kills. The Nose Knows is utterly useless compared to a gaffed method that provides you with 100% accuracy. It can also be expanded to be more than just a simple guessing game as you have full control of the outcome, to some extent you can have a open prediction as to what the outcome is. Again, it's not a weak effect and it's not a weak plot, the only weak link is the performer. |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts
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Just to add to the bit of why people should write things down. You're demonstrating that you can pick up on thoughts but you're also demonstrating that your abilities have limitations thus they need to be completely concentrated on their thoughts and nothing else. Let's just say this, if you don't demonstrate that your abilities have limitations then it would make you look like a truly higher being that can possibly stand toe to toe with your spectators person belief in the higher being in their chosen religion, you obviously don't want to do this as it will create resistance and your job is to entertain, not create resistance. Another reason you want to show that your abilities have limits is also if you think about it, if you're able to predict the future and read minds with no limits, what the heck are you doing standing in front of people performing such lowly demonstrations? Shouldn't you be filthy rich and on some private island somewhere bathing in the glories which has been provided to your by your incredible abilities (you know, you would win the jackpot easily, win at the high roller table, influence people to give you money, etc. etc., things that someone with true abilities would inevitably be doing)?
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Christopher Taylor V.I.P. British Columbia Canada 2315 Posts
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What should mindreading look like? Should we have people write things down? To quote the always articulate and eloquent Bob Cassidy: "Mind reading is theatre, therefor it is what ever the hell we say it is!" Cheers.
Christopher |
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Posted: Nov 11, 2009 03:29 am 
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