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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
There has already been many threads tearing members apart between the pro DVDs and the pro books.
Roberto Giobbi’s remarkable Card College books have become the groundbreaking course for cardmen —an analysis of the art, science, technique and philosophy of card magic. Card College has changed the way my generation has learned card magic, and changed the way we think about it. Coming after Erdnase and Hugard's Expert Card Technique, it was quite a challenge. In his new video venture, Roberto’s Card College has been brought to a four DVD set, with nearly eight hours of material. Card College 1&2, Personal Instruction combines Roberto’s lessons with his performances, demonstrations and explanations. Here we have a chance to learn directly from Roberto. He explains the essential moves, the subtle touches, and gives amazing examples that allow us to add these techniques to our repertoire. At the time when my friend Ben Train has been spending a lot of energy trying to focus our eyes on Erdnase's technical descriptions, Roberto unintentionally shows us the huge step forwards that our art has made since 1902. Now having the Video with the books is a marvelous complement that neither Erdnase nor Hugard & Braue so far didn't enjoyed (with the exception of the Royal Road in the expert hands of R Paul Wilson). The text and the film supply different joys: being able to enjoy both is a rare treat. Who has had the pleasure of walking between the text and the image? Isn't it the communication mode of the future for our art? especially with the Q&A system in Lybrary.com. Is interactive media reaching our community having succeeded avoiding disclosure? Is it the way to go in the future? I would say yes and try and encourage Roberto and other authors to go further in that direction.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-01-10 03:35, Lawrence O wrote: It is important to note that I would NEVER advocate only reading Erdnase- doing so ensures you'll never be as good or as knowledgable as you probably want to be. And, as far as Giobbi goes, I own everything he's put out (including the cd-rom about history) and I've attended both his lectures and workshops- he's superb. And Card College is one of the most important card series/books of all time. All I was suggesting with my posts is that while we study the new material (like the excellent Card College series) and look towards the future, we shouldn't ignore the works of the past- some of which contain things that haven't been improved upon (the fact that CC teaches things straight from Erdnase is a testament to this). While Erdnase was my main focus this applies also to things like Stars of Magic, Greater Magic, and all the Vernon works. Anywho, rant over. Bottom line? Get anything Giobbi puts out. Wow, it's 4am already? I'm off to bed. Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
You're right, it's 10:40 AM here, I have to go to bed as well. Fortunately it's sunday. I'll be back on Roberto's great contribution in more details...
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts |
Ben,
I would add as well that we need to study what came before for the important fact that many "older" techniques are just as good today. Many have said it, if you want to hide it, put it in print. I LOVE Card College, RRTCM, ECT, and Erdnase equally. I would definitely assert that Giobbi's work is as good as other great teachers in magic including Lorayne, Ortiz, Hay, Kato, Wesley James, Roth, and others. I would also agree that Giobbi's Card College is a watershed work that IS a classic. Let's study all we can and use what works Ahimsa, Vlad |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-01-10 13:03, Vlad_77 wrote: I think it's important to remember that just like with newer texts not all sources have equal worth. Card College and Erdnase are worth very careful study, more so then most other things out there. In fact I'd go so far as to say they're a set. First you go to Card College and then you go to the "post-graduate course", Erdnase. This isn't to say you should exclude other works, but rather that you should think carefully as to what, and how much, time you want to allot to certain things. Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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snape Regular user 158 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-01-10 03:54, Ben Train wrote: Interesting. I didn't know Roberto Giobbi had published a CD-ROM on history. Any details on title, contents and publisher you could share? Are his earlier books "Der Traum eines Falschspielers", "CardPerfect" and "Fantasia in As-Dur" available in English? Where can one get them? Thanks. |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-01-10 14:56, snape wrote: Let me rephrase that, as I misspoke. I have only his English works: His Card College series, his booklet on Gambling Trick, his Vernon notes, his lecture notes, and 2 out of the 3 Card College Lighter series. I'm not sure why I just assumed that's all he had written (I may be missing something), or why I forgot about his foreign language works. My bad. Let's just say I have a lot of his stuff- and he's superb. Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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snape Regular user 158 Posts |
Too bad, and I agree, he is superb.
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
But, Snape, the cd-rom does exist. I'll look in my collection to find out what it's called. And, yes, it's in English.
Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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magicfish Inner circle 7006 Posts |
This is a no brainer. No movie can compare to the written word. period.
Magicfish |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-01-10 16:10, magicfish wrote: I don't know about that. I can think of several examples where video has been as good OR BETTER then the written word. Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Also, I think it would be crazy not to make use of all the tools available to us.
We can argue over book versus video all day long, but I think most people would agree that book PLUS video is the best option! Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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magicfish Inner circle 7006 Posts |
Not me. After twenty seven years of studying magic, I have never seen a tape/dvd that was a better than its written counterpart. The other day I broke down and finally purchased a dvd. Allan Ackerman's card control series volume 2. False deals. I loved it . It was very entertaining and very informative, I thouroughly enjoyed it- but that's it; now its over, its dead. its just a piece of plastic sitting on a shelf. I can't thumb through it, I can't study the writing style, I can't fall asleep with it on my chest. I can't pick up inflections, implications, nuances in the authors "voice" (and yes a good author does have a voice, just read Giobbi's column on technical writing in this months genii). No . No matter what the production values, no matter how strong the magic, no matter how much I enjoy the dvd, it cannot compare to a book.
Sincerely Magicfish |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-01-10 16:51, magicfish wrote: The argument you present, while poetic, doesn't make a lot of sense. "I thouroughly enjoyed it- but that's it; now its over, its dead. its just a piece of plastic sitting on a shelf." I don't see a reason a book is any different. When you finished reading it, "that's it; now its over, its dead." It's just a book on a shelf. What I guess you were trying to show (I apologize if I'm mistaken) is that with a book you retain the information and learn something from it- when you close the book and put it back on your shelf you can still think about what you just read. But I see NO REASON why you cannot say the same for a dvd! I watch a good dvd and I think about it when it's back on my shelf. A good dvd, like a good book, has an impact even when I'm done using it. "I can't thumb through it, I can't study the writing style, I can't fall asleep with it on my chest. I can't pick up inflections, implications, nuances in the authors "voice"" No, you cannot "thumb through it", but you can re-watch it. No, you cannot study the "writing style" but you can study the direction and staging. You wouldn't want to "fall asleep with it on your chest", true, but what about while it's in your dvd player? (I've fallen asleep to the Vernon Revelations tapes before...) And, finally, you there is a lot of inflection, implications and nuances to to pick up on from a good dvd. So, which would I choose as my medium of choice- book or dvd? Both. Choosing one would be crazy. Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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magicfish Inner circle 7006 Posts |
I don't think I'm crazy, Ben, I believe there are many guys out there just like me who prefer books to movies. Falling asleep staring at an electronic device is not the same( for me ) as coziying up in front of the fire with a good book. Yes I could re-watch it, but chances are I won't. Bibliophiles are bibliophiles and nothing technology throws at us can replace the written, printed, published word. If that makes me crazy, lock me away and throw away the key baby. Just make sure I have access to my library- especially John Carney's essay at the beginning of Carneycopia which mirrors my opinion on this subject.
There is a reason why tradesman, doctors, scientists, and philosophy students are required to spend so much time and money on books devoted to there craft- because the dvd just won't cut it. Fish |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Preferring- sure. I almost always prefer a book to a movie. But the key word is ALMOST.
To write off the entire medium as 'secondary' to the written word isn't a choice I'm willing to make. I recognize there are advantages to one form over another, and times, places, and projects for both. You mention philosophy and medicine. Well, my father is a dentist and he reads a lot- medical texts and trade journals. He also watches instructional videos about veneer work and new technologies. Me, I'm a philosophy major. I read. But, I also discuss. And, I watch debates online. And I listen to 'dialectic' works (like Socrates/Plato's work) through audio. Don't get me wrong, I'm a book guy. But more than that I'm a knowledge-acquisition guy. I'm a guy who wants to appreciate the art in its fullest. And, most of all, I'm a guy who likes eating popcorn in the dark. Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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magicfish Inner circle 7006 Posts |
I'll go along with that. And I agree.
P.S I threw in the philosophy thing cause I knew you were a student. hope ya don't mind. pps. I'm a Jean Jacques Rousseau guy! I'm no major, but I dig the social contract. Fish |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
I love you.
Back to Giobbi!
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts |
I like books, I enjoy em and I learn from em and it rarely fails that when I crack open a good book I find something new or I have a different take on what I read the first time around!
Unfortunately the older I get the less retention I seem to have with written instruction! I find myself responding better to visual and tactile modes of study these days! The only book/DVD system I own is RRTCM and R Paul Wilson's DVD series and I must say that after reading the book THEN viewing the vids, I personally came away with a better understanding of certain sleights and routines! I'd really like to get the Ackermann on Erdnase series as I have struggled with the book for years (however I do continue to read and glean from it)! I wonder how Erdnase on CD would fly? In my travels for work I often listen to books (fiction, non and instructional) on CD and were as it is a different type of stimulation than reading, I do get a lot from it! Great topic Etienne! MMc |
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magicfish Inner circle 7006 Posts |
No knock against the Ackerman dvd, Mickey it is very good- but for me, here's the difference. I've seen it and if I had to part with it, I could. But Las Vegas Kardma?- they just might have to bury me with it.
Fish |
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