On 2010-01-17 01:02, rossmacrae wrote:
Unless I'm quite mistaken, the Bible never uses the word "occult". The Bible describes, in several very explicit ways in several stories, the types of activities which it condemns, but only more recent writers sum up these activities under the general and somewhat vague term "occult".

On 2010-01-17 22:50, rossmacrae wrote:
Somebody other than me, please cite your favorite examples ... Simon Magus, Saul and the witch of Endor, etc. I have a feeling that if I comment any more we'll wind up in an argument.

On 2010-01-18 10:44, Ed_Millis wrote:
Jeremy - can you tell us a bit about yourself? How old are you? Are you in school? If so, what grade? Do you go to a church? How long have you been a Christian?

That's not meant as an opening for a put-down; rather, it will give us a handle on how we can respond to you to best answer your question. It's like the car mechanic explaining a problem to me, or trying to eplain it to my wife. She's not stupid by any means, but she doesn't understand cars like I do, so smoe explainations are going to go right past her.

We'd love to answer you in a way that makes sense to you.
Ed

On 2010-01-18 01:48, mralincoln wrote:
The Bible uses words like "sorcery" and "familiar spirits," etc.

For instance, Deuteronomy 18:10 says, "Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,"

And, again, in 2 Chronicles 33:6, it says, "He sacrificed his sons in [a] the fire in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, practiced sorcery, divination and witchcraft, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, provoking him to anger."

Those are just a couple of examples.

On 2010-01-18 13:22, Steve_Mollett wrote:

Quote:

On 2010-01-18 01:48, mralincoln wrote:
The Bible uses words like "sorcery" and "familiar spirits," etc.

For instance, Deuteronomy 18:10 says, "Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,"

And, again, in 2 Chronicles 33:6, it says, "He sacrificed his sons in [a] the fire in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, practiced sorcery, divination and witchcraft, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, provoking him to anger."

Those are just a couple of examples.

And yet, almost paradoxically, there were forms of 'divination' related to prophecy that were considered acceptable in the OT:
Joseph interpreted dreams;
Daniel prayerfully scryed in a bowl of water for visions;
Joshua threw the 'holy bones' to determine God's will before a battle;
The priests of Israel cast holy lots contained in the ephod to determine God's will on certain issues.

The forms of divination clearly set apart as pagan included reading animal entrails, consulting spirits of the dead, and gaining 'visions' from sacrificing children, among others.

On 2010-01-18 20:50, Gospel Dan wrote:
The difference was one was from God, while the other was of the evil. This however will only open up a whole new debate on the subject of using such things today if we use them in the name of God. One I do not wish to get into here as it will just lead further from the forums intent. Which by the way, is not to discuss theology.

On 2010-01-19 10:18, Ed_Millis wrote:
Hi, Jeremy. Knowing that you're a college student with some life and thought behind you gets you a different response than a "prove it to me!" 14-year old would get!

The _literal meaning of "occult" may be "hidden knowledge", but that's not neccessarily the _context_ meaning when the word is used. We great other people with "What's up?" That's not a literal question; in the context, the words have a different meaning.

"Hidden knowledge" - hidden how? It referes to "knwledge" that is not able to be known unless a person steps outside of this world and enters another realm. As Gospel Dan pointed out, that takes you into the spiritual realm, the world where God, angels, demons, and Satan live and move.

Adam and Eve were sinless, yet God did not want them to eat of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Perhaps He would have someday given them access it - although sinless, there was still so much they didn't know and couldn't handle. But it does tell us that there is knowledge that should remain hidden.

"Occult" in the Christian world has always been used to mean the dark or demonic side of the hideen things of the spirit world. There is power there, and it really can manifest in our world, and people really can learn how to tap into it.

This is often a concern among Christians, and has been thrown around here quite a bit - "Won't magic tricks entice people into darker realms?" Well, I say that depends on a lot of factors, the biggest being the performer and the spectator's desires. If someone wants the "dark side", they'll go for it, and nothing a magical performer does or doesn't do will affect that. But if someone hungers and thirsts after Jesus and His righteousness, then they will ask questions and make any decision needed to avoid it.

Most of the time, what people are really looking for is power over other people, either for lifting themselves up or for oppressing others. Not finding that power in anything they can find in this world, they begin looking into other worlds. This is a far cry from the "hidden knowledge" that lets me write computer programs, or an auto mechanic fix a car, or a performing magician make your jaw drop and your brain explode.

Hope this helps. There's lots of information and good people here who can guide you in using magic to help in sharing Jesus.

Ed

On 2010-01-19 15:00, J.G. the magnificent wrote:
You are wise.