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J.G. the magnificent Special user Griffith Indiana 886 Posts |
I haven't read my whole Bible so I don't know everything. However I was curious what occult meant knowing the Bible condemns it. So I Wikipediad it and found it means hidden knowledge. Which could be magic being deception which doesn't even stop at magic. Their is hidden knowledge in any profession that others don't know. So that would mean most people are ***ed to hell. Could I get some opinions on this?
Jeremy Gates
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jkvand Special user Johnstown, PA 658 Posts |
Who am I to disagree with Wiki? However, I would not define occult as simply hidden knowledge. To me, occult deals with conjuring spirits, witchcraft, satanism, spells, and the like. This is what the Bible condemns, not simple sleight-of-hand. In the Bible, Simon Magus was outside of the will of God with his sorcery, and King Saul was outside of the will of God by conjuring up a spirit with the witch of Endor. Both of these instances involve the occult, and neither of them are even remotely related to the sleight-of-hand we practice as magicians. Others have pontificated on this issue in much greater depth, but perhaps a look at those 2 Bible stories will get you started.
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jkvand Special user Johnstown, PA 658 Posts |
P.S. I HAVE read my whole Bible, and I STILL don't know everything. The more I read, the less I seem to have answers for!
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2477 Posts |
Unless I'm quite mistaken, the Bible never uses the word "occult". The Bible describes, in several very explicit ways in several stories, the types of activities which it condemns, but only more recent writers sum up these activities under the general and somewhat vague term "occult".
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J.G. the magnificent Special user Griffith Indiana 886 Posts |
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On 2010-01-17 01:02, rossmacrae wrote: Thank you for informing me could you tell me what those words are?
Jeremy Gates
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2477 Posts |
Somebody other than me, please cite your favorite examples ... Simon Magus, Saul and the witch of Endor, etc. I have a feeling that if I comment any more we'll wind up in an argument.
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J.G. the magnificent Special user Griffith Indiana 886 Posts |
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On 2010-01-17 22:50, rossmacrae wrote: Okay I can respect that.
Jeremy Gates
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mralincoln Loyal user If I wasn't so busy, I'd have more than 219 Posts |
The Bible uses words like "sorcery" and "familiar spirits," etc.
For instance, Deuteronomy 18:10 says, "Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft," And, again, in 2 Chronicles 33:6, it says, "He sacrificed his sons in [a] the fire in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, practiced sorcery, divination and witchcraft, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, provoking him to anger." Those are just a couple of examples. |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Jeremy - can you tell us a bit about yourself? How old are you? Are you in school? If so, what grade? Do you go to a church? How long have you been a Christian?
That's not meant as an opening for a put-down; rather, it will give us a handle on how we can respond to you to best answer your question. It's like the car mechanic explaining a problem to me, or trying to eplain it to my wife. She's not stupid by any means, but she doesn't understand cars like I do, so smoe explainations are going to go right past her. We'd love to answer you in a way that makes sense to you. Ed |
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J.G. the magnificent Special user Griffith Indiana 886 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-01-18 10:44, Ed_Millis wrote: Well as much as I don't see how the age and grade stuff will help I guess I will answer them anyway. I am turning twenty in febuary a freshman in college studying business administration due to me wanting to share Christ with my magic. Also wanting to start a magic and religious school maybe even a shop and theater. Yes I go to a church been going their all ten years I have lived in my area. Been saved since I was six to my best guess memories not good at those ages. Never truly been saved until I went to Ron Luces Battlecry in 2008 at the Detroit Loins stadium. He really put things into perspective along with the people in the youth group reinforcing the stuff. Since then my knowledge towards religion and life has grown imensly. I have even been told so by numerous people even ones that don't know me that well. I recently made Eagle scout as well. Yet I am very self critical being not only a perfectionist but constantly striving to be humble and not pridfull. Not even to myself. I try not to beat myself up over things though so don't think that. You may find out more about me on my myspace or facebook. myspace.com/poopinghairbals and http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=......04324916.
Jeremy Gates
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
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On 2010-01-18 01:48, mralincoln wrote: And yet, almost paradoxically, there were forms of 'divination' related to prophecy that were considered acceptable in the OT: Joseph interpreted dreams; Daniel prayerfully scryed in a bowl of water for visions; Joshua threw the 'holy bones' to determine God's will before a battle; The priests of Israel cast holy lots contained in the ephod to determine God's will on certain issues. The forms of divination clearly set apart as pagan included reading animal entrails, consulting spirits of the dead, and gaining 'visions' from sacrificing children, among others.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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J.G. the magnificent Special user Griffith Indiana 886 Posts |
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On 2010-01-18 13:22, Steve_Mollett wrote: I like that even if it is a bit disturbing. It chalanges me to know my stuff and look into more.
Jeremy Gates
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Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
The difference was one was from God, while the other was of the evil. This however will only open up a whole new debate on the subject of using such things today if we use them in the name of God. One I do not wish to get into here as it will just lead further from the forums intent. Which by the way, is not to discuss theology.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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mralincoln Loyal user If I wasn't so busy, I'd have more than 219 Posts |
Thanks, Gospel Dan. You're right! Big difference between the two--one from God the other from Satan!
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J.G. the magnificent Special user Griffith Indiana 886 Posts |
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On 2010-01-18 20:50, Gospel Dan wrote: Your right this is about magic and religion not religious theology.
Jeremy Gates
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Hi, Jeremy. Knowing that you're a college student with some life and thought behind you gets you a different response than a "prove it to me!" 14-year old would get!
The _literal meaning of "occult" may be "hidden knowledge", but that's not neccessarily the _context_ meaning when the word is used. We great other people with "What's up?" That's not a literal question; in the context, the words have a different meaning. "Hidden knowledge" - hidden how? It referes to "knwledge" that is not able to be known unless a person steps outside of this world and enters another realm. As Gospel Dan pointed out, that takes you into the spiritual realm, the world where God, angels, demons, and Satan live and move. Adam and Eve were sinless, yet God did not want them to eat of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Perhaps He would have someday given them access it - although sinless, there was still so much they didn't know and couldn't handle. But it does tell us that there is knowledge that should remain hidden. "Occult" in the Christian world has always been used to mean the dark or demonic side of the hideen things of the spirit world. There is power there, and it really can manifest in our world, and people really can learn how to tap into it. This is often a concern among Christians, and has been thrown around here quite a bit - "Won't magic tricks entice people into darker realms?" Well, I say that depends on a lot of factors, the biggest being the performer and the spectator's desires. If someone wants the "dark side", they'll go for it, and nothing a magical performer does or doesn't do will affect that. But if someone hungers and thirsts after Jesus and His righteousness, then they will ask questions and make any decision needed to avoid it. Most of the time, what people are really looking for is power over other people, either for lifting themselves up or for oppressing others. Not finding that power in anything they can find in this world, they begin looking into other worlds. This is a far cry from the "hidden knowledge" that lets me write computer programs, or an auto mechanic fix a car, or a performing magician make your jaw drop and your brain explode. Hope this helps. There's lots of information and good people here who can guide you in using magic to help in sharing Jesus. Ed |
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J.G. the magnificent Special user Griffith Indiana 886 Posts |
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On 2010-01-19 10:18, Ed_Millis wrote: You are wise.
Jeremy Gates
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
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On 2010-01-19 15:00, J.G. the magnificent wrote: "Good judgement comes from experience; "Experience comes from poor judgement." I've just been around long enough to get a lot of experience!! Cheers! Ed |
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Taliesin New user Virginia 52 Posts |
I don't have anything really to add. Just wanted to say "Great post, Ed."
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MagicMatthews Regular user Sydney, Australia 174 Posts |
Ed, some great thoughts. I enjoy reading your posts.
Don't get even... Get odd!
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