I've heard mention of alternate stacks* for the ID .. does anyone have experience with using an alternate one?

*assuming that the "sum to 13/major suits backed with major suits" stack is taken as the original

Boris Wild does a stack that totals 14, instead. the sevens are the back-to-back cards. Six of one...half a dozen of the other.

I have a slightly different take on the original: I consider the BLACK Kings to be ODD, the RED Kings to be EVEN.

I do away with the Joker entirely.

Geoff: Good point...I always load the Ace of Hearts at the face of the deck. reminding me that the red kings are on the same side. It's these little mnemonic tricks...that remind you how to spell mnemonic.

You could also do a red even, black odd stack (so you know which side of the deck you need facing the audience for your revelation) with no other stack required. (No specific card back to another specific card).

Fan the cards, proper faces towards the audience, with the "backs" facing you the performer. Seperate where you need to as you can see all the "other" cards and know, without really thinking and only a quick glance, where the card to be revealed is. This is easily seen as you spread the cards in a fan in your hand.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat

I don't see the need for an alternate stack. I've used the Don Alan stack, which goes well beyond having the cards add up to 13. It's so easy to anticipate where the selection will pop-up. The stack is in the book "Invisible Secrets Revealed".

Doug Edwards has a great variation by having mates back to back i.e. 6S/6C etc.

This makes it very easy to locate the chosen card.

In his book "Doug Edwards Packs a Wallop" he uses this set-up for a very unique twist on the invisible deck theme.

It has a triple climax as opposed to a singular revelation. Superb!!

Can you expand a little on the Doug Edwards stack?

I'm guessing that it wouldn't just be A-K Spades and A-K hearts on one side, backed respectively with A-K clubs and A-K of diamonds on the other - wouldn't only two suits, albeit mixed together, on the visible side stand out like a sore thumb?

Radioactive, the deck is stacked as you say, but two mixed together suits certainly don't stick out like a sore thumb!!

You need to try it to be convinced, but I guess it's another case of Magician's logic being worried about such detail.

The spectator has no reason to suspect a set-up, unless you try and over prove the situation.

The Edwards effect is excellent. I obviously cannot explain it here, but you should try to obtain a copy of the book. It contains other good effects beside that one.

I was afraid you'd say that

Only reason I asked again was that I made up the stack you're talking about a week or so ago and to me it just seemed obvious. I told myself "no, no one would notice it" but the voices inside my head were still a bit worried...

.. must try it

Does anyone who does the Invisible Deck trick often find that it's less effective when the reversed card appears near the top or bottom of the fan? If so do you recommend keeping frequently picked cards like the ace of spades away from the ends?
The ID was my friend's grandfather's favorite trick and he always carried an extra deck with the ace of spades reversed, presumably because it was picked so often.

I don't like it when the reversed card is near the ends, or even the last card. I've got the 10's and 3's there, but I can't remember my logic.

The odds are with you that their pick will be near the center. The odds are 48 to 4 that their pick would be the very last card.

If anyone has ideas of certain cards to put on or near the ends I would like to hear them also.

Duke

On the contrary...I like it when they pick a card that lands near the top or bottom. In fact, it makes for a great effect...

"in the entire deck, only one card is turned face down...in fact, that card is at the VERY TOP!"

Reinforces the notion that you are not only a mind reader, but can manipulate the cards to no end.

I never thought of it that way. Thanks for the suggestion. Now if we could all just get our heads together to turn the wrong color box in Brainwave into a mental magical feat instead of a clumsy explanation!

Theres quite a bit written about the reversed cards position in the deck at

http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~alain/magictalk-wisdom/

Strangely enough its in the "Invisible Deck" section.

Thanks for the quick advice about cards at the top and bottom. For some reason the home-made deck I just put together (because I'm in China and can't buy one, not because I don't want to support the industry) also has threes and tens at one end. The other is sevens and sixes. No reason.

But now that you all have me thinking, is there anyone that does try to remember where certain cards are and incorporate that into the effect?

Are there any suggestions for fanning or finding the card? Is it the quicker the better or just the most natural way that seems to work best?

One more comment: I am working on doing a "Double Invisible" trick. I want to pull out two decks that can't be seen, let them pick a card and put it in my wallet or checkbook. Then I want to do the traditional ID illusion. At the end I can pull out the first invisible pick and put it "back" in it's (also no visible) pack.
any thought or suggestions are welcome. alan

Sorry. In the last post, I meant to write that at the end of the trick I can pull out the (now visible) first pick and put it
"back" in it's (now visible) pack. I'm using airline card to sublty underscore the fact that it's going back in the deck it came from. I suppose you could use kitty-cat backs or anything that seems non-generic but normal.

I have to confess I got the idea for this by reading posts about something called
"Kolassal Killer" that's also not available to me here in China.

Again, please send any suggestions. My home-made ID is going to take a little getting used to; I would really appreciate any suggestions for handling the cards well.----alan

Thanks for the link!

Lots of good info there. I think I'm going to use the Joker as described in the guy's routine. I've never used the Joker in the ID before. I'll see how it works for me.

Thanks again,

Duke

Thanks for reprinting the link on the ID, Duke. That answered more than half my questions. (I think the ID will be one of the 12 tricks I try to hone and perfect. (I want to take the advice I saw recently and end my days with 12 beautiful tricks rather than 1200 average ones.)

As soon as I get back to the States I want to order a real ID. My homemade Chinese one doesn't work as well as I'd like --I guess because I used sandpaper to rough it up.
alan

This is the stack that I use too

I can't recall the source, but here's the most deceptive stack I have found to date. The pairs remain as usual. One side has even spades and hearts along with odd clubs and diamonds. THe other side of course has even spades and hearts, odd clubs and diamonds. IMO this gives the deck a completely normal appearance. My marker cards are the the six of spades on one side and the nine of spades on the other. My black kings go on the odd spade, odd heart side. My mnemonic is "BOSH" standing for black odd spades and hearts.