|
|
Go to page 1~2 [Next] | ||||||||||
Alel Special user Bay Area 668 Posts |
Hi Mr. Vigil, good day!
I might be skating on thin ice here for this is quite a loaded question, but I thought Id' give it a shot: Does your views on spirituality have any influence over your performances and your philosophy towards magic in general? If Yes, how and in what way? After reading one of the other topics, I assume you also have a unique insight on spirituality and religion in relation to your academic field of study. I'm just curious about how your interests in our art and in spirituality intersect. I myself am fascinated with the history of mysticism and spirituality, thus my curiosity. Thanks! Alel |
|||||||||
paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
Alel,
Yes, it does inform my performance and philosophy. How? By giving me a cultural context in which it's allowed, revered and crucial. "At the point in his evolutionary progress where we first call him "Man" beyond a doubt-Homo sapiens sapiens-and when he came to know, also beyond a doubt, what awe and reverence were, he clearly felt that Soma was conferring on him mysterious sensations and powers, which seemed to him more than normal: at that point Religion was born, Religion pure and simple, free of Theology, free of Dogmatics, expressing itself in awe and reverence and in lowered voices, mostly at night, when people would gather together to consume the Sacred Element. The first entheogenic experience could have been the first, and an authentic, perhaps the only authentic miracle. This was the beginning of the Age of Entheogens, long, long ago." - Persephone's Quest: Entheogens and the Origins of Religion. Kramrisch, Stella; Ott, Jonathan; Wasson, R. Gordon. (1986). Yale University Press. "With the passing years, the Wasson Theory has become so widely accepted by specialists as to be considered beyond serious dispute. Shamanism is the earliest manifestation of culture; the shaman the first professional and the precursor of the priest, physician, musician, and every artist alike." - The Age of Entheogens & The Angels' Dictionary. Ott, Jonathan (1995) "According to such a theory, each one of us is potentially Mind at Large. But in so far as we are animals, our business is at all costs to survive. To make biological survival possible, Mind at Large has to be funneled through the reducing valve of the brain and nervous system. What comes out at the other end is a measly trickle of the kind of consciousness which will help us to stay alive on the surface of this particular plant. To formulate and express the contents of this reduced awareness, man has invented and endlessly elaborated those symbol which we call languages. Every individual is at once the beneficiary and the victim of the linguistic tradition into which he has been born-the beneficiary inasmuch as language gives access to the accumulated records of other people's experience, the victim in so far as it confirms him in the belief that reduced awareness is the only awareness and as it bedevils his sense of reality, so that he is all too apt to take his concepts for data, his words for actual things. That which, in the language of religion, is called "this world" is the universe of reduced awareness, expressed, and, as it were, petrified by language. The various "other worlds," with which human beings erratically make contact are so many elements in the totality of the awareness belonging to Mind at Large." - The Doors of Perception. Huxley, Aldous. (1954) "I take very seriously the idea that the Logos is real, that there is a guiding Mind-an Oversoul-that inhabits the bamboo of the planet, and that human balance, dignity, and religiosity depend on having direct contact with this realm. This is what shamanism is providing. It was available in the West until the fall of Eleusis and the Mystery traditions-to some people-but then it was stamped out by barbarians who didn't understand what they had destroyed." - The Archaic Revival. McKenna, Terence. (1991) "Looking at the matter coldly, unintoxicated and unentranced, I am willing to prophesy that fifty theo-botanists working fifty years would make the current theories concerning the origins of much mythology and theology as out of date as pre-Copernican astronomy. I am the more willing to prophesy, since I am, alas, so unlikely to be proved wrong." - The Mythmakers. Barnard, Mary. (1966) Ohio University Press. Too much? V |
|||||||||
Alel Special user Bay Area 668 Posts |
Paul,
I think nothing is too much for anyone that is deeply interested. THANK YOU for such an informative response! |
|||||||||
paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
Cool.
|
|||||||||
Kyle Gray New user 10 Posts |
Wow.. awesome.
|
|||||||||
Kyle Gray New user 10 Posts |
Wow.. awesome.
|
|||||||||
paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
Right?
|
|||||||||
Kyle Gray New user 10 Posts |
It is interesting that this is your fundamental field of study... If you have read Derren Browns "Tricks of the Mind" his book published for the public, I went through a very similar experience, almost exactly the same to him once entering university.
Magic has the habit of forcing you to open your mind... It can shake your world and create an internal turmoil that forces your to reflect and think about belief. This was an extremely tough time for me as my mind fought against its own understanding and conditioned reality. |
|||||||||
paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
I'm a philosophical anarchist and don't even believe the things I think I believe in!
If history has any bearing, it seems that the smartest men among us will be shown to have even their most cherished beliefs proven limited, if not outright false. Intriguing, and liberating. |
|||||||||
MagicMason Loyal user 300 Posts |
Hello Paul. I was interested to read your post and the others too. You seem to be both a wonderful entertainer, but also possess a brilliant mind. I was wondering what your thoughts were about Jesus from the New Testament books: Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. Have your studies taken you down that path at all? I was just wondering. Thanks for sharing with us all this week! Good luck to you!
Tom Mason Vienna Austria |
|||||||||
paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
Tom,
Being a recovering Catholic, I am familiar with Christian exegesis. As my studies are more focused toward the origins of religion, and I believe the spirit was old long before the shadow of the cross fell on Jerusalem, my interest goes back--further back to the goddess inspired plains of Africa. Some of the lastest scholarly work to blow my mind: http://www.amazon.com/Apples-Apollo-Chri......-1-spell http://www.amazon.com/Strange-Fruit-Alch......ep_dpi_3 http://www.amazon.com/Cleansing-Doors-Pe......&sr=1-19 Thanks for showing up. Best, V |
|||||||||
Hansen Special user Down Under 653 Posts |
A thought (and I believe this is an important issue for all 'magicians' to consider):
As a 'magician', should you be promoting a belief in or an acceptance of supernatural explanations? Would it not be wiser and more beneficial to the 'spectator' to encourage the logic and reason of natural, scientific explanations to the questions and trials of human existence? Is it morally right to deceive someone and then encourage them to accept a 'magical' or supernatural explanation to resolve their confusion? Are you not promoting weak, lazy, illogical thought that may have powerful rammifications in other areas of that person's life? These are all issues I've grappled with. I believe these issues are of concern to Derren Brown as evidenced in his writings and many others as well. This is by no means an attack on anyone, I'm only interested in others' views and thoughts on this topic. Please take a minute to consider your answers before posting a reply. |
|||||||||
paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
Hi Hanson,
I don't promote a belief in anything. I just feel there is a vast resevoir of symbolism and mythology that is being underutilized. Also, just playing devil's advocate, I've been grappling with it from the opposite end--who said we have to be truth bearers? I thought our job WAS illusion. I've had some of the best philosophy teachers around and none of them ever told me they could give me the truth, why should this then be OUR burden? Let me add, science is the endeavour of thought that deals with phenomenon that's so crude it is repeatable; while the most interesting things in our lives happen once, and never the same way. I also don't believe that science is some meta-theory to explain everything. Anyone read Godel? He showed mathematics fail, or that you can't know the truth... The bigger you build the bonfire of understanding, the more darkness you reveal to the startled eye. V |
|||||||||
kentfgunn Inner circle Merritt Island FL 1639 Posts |
Hansen,
You were probably aiming your loaded question at PV. For absolutely no good reason at all, I'd like to chirp in. As a magician, I think you can do anything your own personal set of morals allow. If you can dupe people into believing you have supernatural powers, you're a significantly better magician than most. The vast majority of people are not that stupid. I don't believe it is worth worrying about. If someone is foolish and uneducated enough to believe some scummy hustler posing as a magician, two fools and their time is of no concern to me. I think you suppose too much. There is little of what you describe going on. I know, I know there are the John Edwards of this world. He's not a magician, he's a chiseler creep who preys on those with needs for which their may not be a valid supply. Who on earth do you know who would, with or without their tongues in their cheeks ever try to convince people they had supernatural powers using magic technique? Weak, illogical thoughts . . . I don't think it is of any concern at all. I don't worry about the convictions or actions of others, certainly not crank magicians. What you're describing is so silly and reprehensible I wouldn't do it. Can you, Hansen, expand on why you think this topic is so weighty? I did not take the full minute to consider, sorry. I didn't think the topic was worth a full sixty seconds of contemplation. Thank you for telling me how to proceed though. KG |
|||||||||
paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
KG,
Uh, oh. Monkeys in the jungle! V |
|||||||||
Hansen Special user Down Under 653 Posts |
My questions were aimed at all magicians (I hope all who present 'magic' to other people will at least consider these issues). I think how a 'magician' presents himself and his art is very important, especially to the receiver of that presentation -- it could have potentially huge effects (think chaos theory, the butterfly's beating wings and storms) on that receiver of a 'magical' experience.
I think magic is a wonderful art and one of the very highest forms of entertainment available to the human mind. It is a great pleasure and joy. But there are some thorns to this rose: As a magician, do you want to deceive that person or simply entertain that person? I know they are intricately related because the art of magic relies on perceptual deception. But should a magician encourage deception of an individual's logical, reasonable and natural worldview? For the receiver of this 'magical' presentation, the experience could be truly enjoyable or it could potentially be harmful to their intellect and education. A magician should consider the power they are wielding (especially on young, impressionable, not fully matured minds). As a side note, this is why there will always be children exposing the art of magic on youtube and other places. It is the logical side of their mind almost defending itself against deception. It is human nature. To be human is to have reason. It is terrible for the art of magic, but beneficial for children to think with logic and reason. I don't know how the conflict between the two can be resolved. Actually, I thought Paul's answer (I might add I am a huge admirer of Paul and his effects. I have purchased several of his effects and consider him to be a first rate intellect and gentleman, one of the finest in the art) regarding mythology was truly excellent and hit the 'nail on the head'. Mythology is a main and powerful ingredient in human history, and one that when utilized properly can bring great insight and joy to people. The art of magic can only prosper in the hands of masters such as Paul. |
|||||||||
paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
A few more random thougths:
Recently I read a quote from Robert Brault that's stuck with me, "Today I bent the truth to be kind, and I have no regret, for I am far surer of what is kind than I am of what is true." There are all kinds of illusions to be the victim of; but once we walk out on stage, I believe, all bets are off. The world we perceive is only a small bit of the world we can perceive, which is only a small fraction of the perceivable world. It's hard for people to come together in unison on simply what consitutes a good salad, and I don't think we can expect everyone here to like the same song, so I don't expect we will all agree on something as complicated an issue as performance, either. Here's to diversity! V |
|||||||||
ALEXANDRE Inner circle 3024 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-03-13 17:12, paulvigil wrote: Really great answer, Paul. Watch out now! The universe is a deep, mysterious place and we as human beings are living in the middle of it all! Yet many of us we go around pretending we don’t even see it.
HERE'S A SECRET ...
http://www.lybrary.com/mystic-alexandre-m-354.html |
|||||||||
Hansen Special user Down Under 653 Posts |
Paul, thank you for your excellent replies. I especially enjoyed the quote by Robert Brault. What a valuable and insightful quote. Thank you for sharing that.
|
|||||||||
paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
Hansen,
Glad you enjoyed it as much as I did. All, I had another thought related to this overall thread, too: why do we worry about lying as magicians, when wouldn't our energies be more well spent stopping politicians, Wall Street Maddoff types, Toyota CEOs, unethical scientists... the list can go on, from being dishonest? I flat out tell my audience in the beginning of my show that I've just lied to them, and I will try to make it the only lie I tell them, but I'm not promising anything. Plus, I think that even if we sat down with someone who is a "shut eye" and explained it all to them I would still have doubt that you've changed their core belief system. Live and let live. V |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The March 2010 entrée: Paul Vigil » » Spirituality, Mysticism and Magic » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page 1~2 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |