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motown
Inner circle
Atlanta by way of Detroit
4769 Posts
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Posted: Apr 25, 2010 2:19pm
Bill,
I picked up a numbered 1st edition of Paul LePaul's book from a used book dealer for $40 or $45 dollars.
This was before the internet. There were 500 printed. Had the internet and Abe books been around, I'm sure that book would have been priced at over $100.
And that's just one example.
I think. the internet has definitely made it harder on the pocketbook.
Craig
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
– Karl Germain
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: Apr 25, 2010 4:25pm
I'm not surprised that it was that inexpensive. The LePaul book has largely been overlooked by card workers of the past two generations, because some of it has been "improved upon" by more recent performers. However, LePaul did a lot of his work in a stage situation. Some of his sleights were specifically for that kind of setup. Look at his version of the Diagonal Palm Shift. It's not as elegant as the Erdnase version, but it is much more suitable for stage work than the Erdnase DPS.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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ekins
Loyal user
Portland, Oregon
248 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2010 12:46am
Quote:
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I think. the internet has definitely made it harder on the pocketbook.
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I believe this has gone both ways. Buyers are now able to more easily determine a fair market price and are less likely to be fooled by the "Rare, Out of Print" sales pitch and the associated inflated price.
But I agree that as a buyer you're less likely to come across that great find like you were several years ago. For example, I bought a copy of Cards as Weapons (when they were going for $150-$200) for $15.
-Brian
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Clay Shevlin
Elite user
493 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2010 1:25am
Here is an article which may be helpful to those interested in learning about collecting, pricing and such things:
http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Forum=12&topic=000578&Number=0&site_id=1#import
Regarding RiffRaff's question about Okito on Magic, all 200 numbered copies of the "deluxe edition" were signed by Okito, and were issued in quarter blue cloth over gold pebbled paper over boards, with a red leatherette slipcase. The basic issue of the book was bound in red cloth with a profile of Okito embossed in gold on the front cover, with a red and white dust jacket.
RiffRaff doesn't mention the condition of the book, whether it has the slipcase, or even if it was one of the "deluxe" copies, so I'd be hard pressed to consider an estimate of value without that basic information. As Bill Palmer wisely suggests, the condition of a book can be critical when it comes to value.
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RiffRaff
Elite user
429 Posts
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Posted: Apr 26, 2010 8:50am
Clay,
Thanks for the extra info.
It's not the deluxe edition.
It has a red cover with the gold embossed Okito profile (about the size of a dollar coin).
The cover is not in good shape. I had purchased a second book just for the cover, and then I discoved that the second book was a second edition, and the cover was different than the 1st edition cover.
The condition is excellent (I'm not using that term the same way that book collectors use it - It looks excellent to my untrained eye).
Okito signed it in blue ink as follows:
To: Bill Reid Esq.
With best wishes.
Okito.
Dec 1952.
(The word 'Okito' is underlined).
Posted: Apr 26, 2010 8:52am
I'm not sure that my post was clear. If not I'll clarify:
The dust jacket (cover) is not in great condition; the book itself is.
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Josh Chaikin
Inner circle
Kansas City
1413 Posts
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Posted: Apr 27, 2010 3:49pm
What a great idea for a thread, Bill. A few years back, I purchased two issues of West Coast Quarterly from Andy Greget (which seems to comprise a full run). Very few people seem to know much about this publication, in spite of there being great material in there. The price I paid leads me to believe that it may not be worth much, the material and contributors, however, makes me think differently, though.
"You can turn painful situations around through laughter. If you can find humor in anything, even poverty, you can survive it." - Bill Cosby
Photos from the Pit
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2010 1:40am
I really can't claim this as my idea. The idea came from Merenkov.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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Marshall Thornside
Inner circle
chicago
2019 Posts
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Posted: Apr 28, 2010 3:07am
I will say the value of book is interesting.
Because I know that Dr. Albo's books are
usually through the roof. If they are inscribed,
much more. These are't older books only
published int he past 30 years or so but
they are complete by volume.
Where as the magic annuals don't hold up as
much value as does a inscribed set.
Yet a leather bound edition of the first
so many Jinx (I think or maybe Genii) magazine
can be worth quite a bit.
I think much of it can be determined by demand.
When one knows that its in demand people will
pay (almost) anything for it.
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista
7th greatest pianist in the world
Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador
www.mai-ling.net
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Clay Shevlin
Elite user
493 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2010 1:06am
^^^ Frances, I don't think Bob's books are much more valuable inscribed, at least based on what I've seen for sales. And what do you mean by "complete by volume"?
Which annuals are you talking about? Goldston? Findlay? Magic, Inc?
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2010 4:12am
I found someone who collects a very narrow slice of magical publications. Yet he still manages to have a very large collection of material.
He collects Karl Fulves -- not just the books and periodicals Karl wrote or edited, but also articles, reviews, places Karl is mentioned, etc.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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magicfish
Inner circle
2836 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2010 9:07am
Quote:
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On 2010-05-01 04:12, Bill Palmer wrote:
I found someone who collects a very narrow slice of magical publications. Yet he still manages to have a very large collection of material.
He collects Karl Fulves -- not just the books and periodicals Karl wrote or edited, but also articles, reviews, places Karl is mentioned, etc.
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Interesting. I wonder why he collects Fulves. I know people collect everything from bananas to irons to brooms- who knows why. But I'd be very interested to know why Fulves.
Rod.
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2010 11:25am
It might be because Fulves is so prolific. He actually may have written more about magic than Walter Gibson.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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Rennie
Inner circle
Manteca, California
1853 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2010 12:09pm
[quote]
On 2010-04-26 00:46, ekins wrote:
Quote:
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For example, I bought a copy of Cards as Weapons (when they were going for $150-$200) for $15.
-Brian
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I feel $15.00 is the actual true value of that book. I think it is the most overpriced book I ever saw. Contains no magic, but a few nude shots..Crazy!!
Rennie
The effect is the important thing, how you achieve it is not.......
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ekins
Loyal user
Portland, Oregon
248 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2010 3:32pm
Quote:
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On 2010-05-01 12:09, Rennie wrote:
I feel $15.00 is the actual true value of that book. I think it is the most overpriced book I ever saw. Contains no magic, but a few nude shots..Crazy!!
Rennie
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No disagreement there, but on the other hand if I can turn around and resell it to make some money for some good material I'm not going to complain.
-Brian
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Rennie
Inner circle
Manteca, California
1853 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2010 10:42pm
Brian,
I could not agree more. Sell it and use the money to buy a book that has something in it you can use.
Rennie
The effect is the important thing, how you achieve it is not.......
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: May 1, 2010 11:59pm
This illustrates a principle that occurs in the market sometimes. It's basically a "bump." This happens when someone wants something so badly that he will pay ANYTHING for it. Actually, it happens when two or more people want something so badly that they will pay ANYTHING for it.
Case in point -- The Red Book of Mentalism sold on eBay a few years back for $400.00 +. Then everybody wanted one. So Prism was printed. I don't know how well it sold, but the fact is that the fellow who paid $400+ for the Red Book did so because his time was worth more to him than $400 an hour.
A set of Ross Bertram cups went for about $1800 on Martinka a few years ago. Then the cups started decreasing in value. Now they are about the same as they cost right before the big bump.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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gaddy
Inner circle
Agent of Chaos
3111 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2010 6:09pm
As a used/antique book buyer for a large Chicago bookseller for several years, I feel I'm in a position to say that magic books are the some of the most schizophrenically valued books in the world! There is very little rhyme or reason to how/why some books are so highly prized and some are not, except for usefulness and fashionability.
Not that there's anything wrong with it, but it's very curious that fashion plays such a large role in the value of magic books.
Rags make paper,
Paper makes money,
Money makes banks,
Banks make loans,
Loans make beggars,
Beggars make...
...rags
-Anonymous, circa early 1700's
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Mark R. Williams
Regular user
191 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2010 3:06pm
Quote:
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On 2010-05-03 18:09, gaddy wrote:
As a used/antique book buyer for a large Chicago bookseller for several years, I feel I'm in a position to say that magic books are the some of the most schizophrenically valued books in the world! There is very little rhyme or reason to how/why some books are so highly prized and some are not, except for usefulness and fashionability.
Not that there's anything wrong with it, but it's very curious that fashion plays such a large role in the value of magic books.
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I agree but isn't that usually true for any category of books? I collect Civil War books of various types including army manuals of the period and the same can be noted of them. The prices can be wildly divergent and the determining factors are not always evident. Heck, just look up the price of almost ANY book on an online book sitr such as ABE's and you will see prices ranging from giveaway to assinine!!!!
Regards,
mark
"One more step on the pathway of Knowledge, that is if we don't break our leg crossing the street"
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Clay Shevlin
Elite user
493 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2010 1:59am
I suspect there’s a lot of truth to Mark’s observation about the variability of book pricing. That said, to address gaddy’s comment about the schizophrenia of magic book pricing, I’ve often been amazed at the variance between the pricing by general book dealers and specialist magic book dealers. The only realistic explanation I can think of for this is that magic books are, by the “underground,” secretive nature of magic, seldom encountered in great quantities by general book dealers. Amongst specialist magic book dealers, prices are generally consistent. And of course, as Bill Palmer says, there are the “bumps” in prices as certain authors and sub-genres of magic books wax and wane in popularity. Goldston and Hoffmann were once all the rage a couple of decades ago, but demand – and thus prices – have tailed off.
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2010 2:36pm
There is also a factor that includes the various categories that books fit into. Some people who are laymen are Houdini collectors. If you have a Houdini book for sale, it may appeal to magicians, collectors of Judaica, collectors of "roaring 20's" books, spy novels, you name it. So, at an auction, a Houdini book may conceivably have a much larger market than a book like Erdnase.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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Josh Chaikin
Inner circle
Kansas City
1413 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2010 6:39pm
[quote]
On 2010-05-01 12:09, Rennie wrote:
Quote:
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On 2010-04-26 00:46, ekins wrote:
Quote:
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For example, I bought a copy of Cards as Weapons (when they were going for $150-$200) for $15.
-Brian
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I feel $15.00 is the actual true value of that book. I think it is the most overpriced book I ever saw. Contains no magic, but a few nude shots..Crazy!!
Rennie
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I was talking with John Greget about that book a few years back. He had a copy that he had sold for $800. Of course the fact that it had a stamp on the title page that read "From the library of Doug Henning" may have had one or two things to do with it.
"You can turn painful situations around through laughter. If you can find humor in anything, even poverty, you can survive it." - Bill Cosby
Photos from the Pit
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magicfish
Inner circle
2836 Posts
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Posted: Jun 20, 2010 9:59pm
-Louis Tannen's Catalogue of Magic, No. 10
-Abbott's Catalogue, No. 16
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: Jun 20, 2010 11:28pm
What condition are they in?
The last Abbott's #16 that went up on Kenna Thompson's auction was in 2005. It sold for $1.00
The last Tannen's #10 that went up on Martinka was part of a three catalog package with an opening bid for the package of $25. It did not sell.
Usually, those two companies produce a LOT of copies of their catalogs.
I'll check with some used book dealers at the San Diego convention.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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magicfish
Inner circle
2836 Posts
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Posted: Jun 21, 2010 12:49pm
Thanks, Bill. They're both in very good shape, maybe better. There's not a mark on the Tannen's Catalogue, and the Abbott's still has the original crisp order sheet within its pages.
Rodney
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: Jun 21, 2010 2:14pm
I'm not sure why those particular catalogs didn't command a higher price.
If you put those up on eBay, you might be able to get somewhere between $5 and $20 for each of them.
It's really a gamble.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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Kevin Connolly
Inner circle
New Jersey
1262 Posts
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Posted: Jun 22, 2010 10:38am
I'm sorry to say, but one of the people who posted on this thread, MagiClyde, has passed away. I read it in the Magicians Helping Magicians(?) thread. What a real shame.
Please visit my website.
www.houdinihimself.com
Always looking buy or trade for original Houdini, Hardeen and escape artist items. I'm interested in books, pitchbooks and ephemera. Email hhoudini@optonline.net
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: Jun 24, 2010 12:41am
That's too bad.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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panlives
Inner circle
2088 Posts
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Posted: Jun 25, 2010 4:30pm
Quote:
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On 2010-05-03 18:09, gaddy wrote:
As a used/antique book buyer for a large Chicago bookseller for several years, I feel I'm in a position to say that magic books are the some of the most schizophrenically valued books in the world! There is very little rhyme or reason to how/why some books are so highly prized and some are not, except for usefulness and fashionability.
Not that there's anything wrong with it, but it's very curious that fashion plays such a large role in the value of magic books.
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Agreed.
This is a very strong and important point to keep in mind when trying to assess the value of your book or collection.
Combine bibliomania and a love of conjuration and 1 plus 1 will always equal 250.
There is no gold standard and no cosmic scale that imparts value to anything, let alone a magic book (much as we may love them).
The bottom line is the same for a Van Gogh as it is for a Dukes of Hazard tin lunchbox – both are worth precisely what a smitten buyer is willing to pay.
Having said all this, I have the 128 page edition of Frank Garcia’s “The Very Best of Cups and Balls.” Unsigned. Copyright 1979. First Edition. Spine in good condition. Front and back covers show shelf wear (some white color chaffing against the light/solid blue).
Bill – any sense of current market value?
With thanks,
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
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Bill Palmer
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
23786 Posts
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Posted: Jun 25, 2010 5:02pm
I'll have to do some searching for that one.
I checked Martinka, and there hasn't been one up for sale there. I checked the past three years of Kenna Thompson's site with the same results.
I'll check with Andy Greget when I get to San Diego.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC
My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."
www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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panlives
Inner circle
2088 Posts
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Posted: Jun 25, 2010 5:49pm
Quote:
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On 2010-06-25 17:02, Bill Palmer wrote:
I'll have to do some searching for that one.
I checked Martinka, and there hasn't been one up for sale there. I checked the past three years of Kenna Thompson's site with the same results.
I'll check with Andy Greget when I get to San Diego.
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Hi Bill,
Thanks – I will await word from you.
I also have Frank Garcia’s full-length Three Card Monte book, “Don’t Bet on It” (not the abbreviated booklet printed under the same name).
The specs are the same – Unsigned, spine un-cracked, first edition, scuffed covers from shelfwear but otherwise a tight edition.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
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