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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
If you get by Dean Dill's he'll fool you badly with his handling even if you know the method.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Illucifer Inner circle 1403 Posts |
Pete, why must you do that to us east-coasters?
I'd love to see what the creative mind of Dean Dill has come up with for this.
It's all in the reflexes.
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Sammy J. Inner circle Castle Rock, Colorado 1786 Posts |
Christopher,
Thank you for sharing this. Your post was well thought out and very detailed. I don't know if it will convince any who haven't studied or don't like this routine, but to those of us who have, the information is very helpful!
Sammy J. Teague
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
I think this might be one of the weakest magic effects I've seen. I read an essay recently, Regal maybe? I honestly can't remember- I read so many books. Anyway, It was about magicians' flawed logic. And I believe this effect is seriously flawed. Its just so darned novel that I think some overlook its weaknesses. I watched Ammar do this trick and I cringed.
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Futureal Inner circle 1695 Posts |
Christopher :
I watched your clips. If you use a clear balloon like you suggest, the phone is clearly visible under a second layer of rubber, inside the balloon. I guess you'll tell me that spectators don't notice or don't know the difference? |
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Christopher Lyle Inner circle Dallas, Texas 5698 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-05-30 04:07, Futureal wrote: I don't remember the exact name of the effect, but I want to say it's called Pena Coin. It's the effect whereas you take square of latex and stretch it around a coin so it appears that the coin is setting directly on top of it. You then rubberband that latex onto a glass. Then if you lightly push the coin that appears to be on top of the latex, it penetrates right thru into the glass. Do you remember that effect? So why do I bring this up? It's almost the same kind of illusion. It's a very cool illusion that you can only get by using clear balloons. The balloons are frosted just enough where it sort of "blurs" the view inside. The important thing Futureal is to insure that on the deflation part, you get a good tight seal which is accomplished by NOT blowing up the balloon very big in the beginning. If you get a tight seal around the "inner layer" of the balloon, then when you re-inflate it, that inner seal will perfectly have wrapped around the phone (like in the Pena Coin example I gave above) giving a very nice illusion of their phone being INSIDE the balloon. With all that being said, I think this is one of those effects that you either LOVE or you HATE. If you hate the routine...awesome! One less person doing it out there. No amount of discussion will ever change the mind of someone who doesn't like the routine. Over the last 10 years or so, I have played around with using BOTH clear and opaque balloons. It seemed that when I used opaque balloon, that the response was never as good as using clear b/c with clear, w/o a doubt, they could really see their phone inside. So yes, I'm going to tell you that I have never been caught, I have never had anyone say "Hey there Mr. Magic Dude, I see an extra layer around the balloon," etc. In almost every case that I've done this, what usually happens is once I blow it up and they see it inside, they stop looking at and are laughing and say "Oh my God" to their friends and family sitting around the table, their laughing at my lines, etc. If I choose to do this on stage, when I re-inflate the balloon, I'm also a pretty good distance away and they wouldn't notice anything anyway. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Magicians ALWAYS over think and over complicate things. It's in our nature. What you need to keep in mind is what appears to be OBVIOUS to us, won't be obvious to a laymen. I have seriously SHOCKED myself at some of the nonsense that I have gotten away with during shows...both strolling and stage. If Pressure is performed correctly, using the proper motivation, then what some magi think is the obvious, will quickly fly over their head... Christopher
In Mystery,
Christopher Lyle Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius For a Good Time...CLICK HERE! |
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msmaster Special user 522 Posts |
No performer making a living with this cares what other magicians say. If the effect works for you, you know it, and you use it. Nothing more to say.
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
The penetration effect using a dental dam is a killer because the participant is convinced that the coin is resting on top. In this cell phone trick, the phone goes behind the balloon. There is no visible penetration. This is the last I'll say about it and I mean no disrespect but I just can't see how this could even be mildly mystifying. The method is obvious. I think the novelty of taking a pic with an Iphone in order to connect with a hip, youthful audience has overshadowed the fact that this just isn't a strong magic trick.
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Stucky Inner circle I'm Batman! 1355 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-05-28 20:29, TopChange wrote: Not the people I performed for this week. They were WANTING to bust me and didn't catch on. Quote:
On 2010-05-30 03:29, magicfish wrote: I agree the original handling is flawed. It's done too fast and there is no "Moment of magic" (as Chris discusses up above).If you treat it like some hyper-fast street magic effect with no presentation or reason, it's just another cheap trick like so many others we have seen or done before. I actually got busted twice when I first started playing with it and was bound and determined to make it work, and thus far I have. After I do the trick I hand it to them (which gets a laugh) and then I pull it back RIGHT at the moment before they take it to remove it. This places a psychological subtlety in their head that it CAN be examind or ealse I wouldn't have almost let them take it. Quote:
If you use a clear balloon like you suggest, the phone is clearly visible under a second layer of rubber, inside the balloon. I guess you'll tell me that spectators don't notice or don't know the difference? People notice what they are familiar with. Has anyone outside of magic ever actually put ANYTHING inside a clear balloon (that wasn't a stuffed bear) and could tell you what one or two layers of rubber look like? Personally I'm glad a lot of you don't like it. Less people doing it poorly messing it up for those of us who like it and make it work. Thank you goodnight. Try the waitress, tip your veal.
Official Thread Killer
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Scott Fridinger Special user Gloucester Pt, VA 893 Posts |
I agree that anyone who is fooled by this is being nice. I think I saw this type of thing with a balloon in a science project. This is one of those effects that a person could turn around and go through the motions and actually do the effect. Now, I may be wrong, and for those who use it, more power to you. You will not have me as competition on this one.
www.JustGreatMagic.com
Sleight of Hand, Sleight of Mind |
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arizona New user 87 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-05-30 09:50, Christopher Lyle wrote: I think magicians are figuring out the trick because they know about that old classic coin penetration effect. I admit I never saw pressure before until MA performed it, I never bothered when I saw ads just thought it was other ways of doing deck in balloon effect. So when I watched MA on Letterman, my first thoughts in my head was that coin effect. Its because of that knowledge I think I and many others knew what was going on. Plus in person the performance is personal and engaging its hard for laymen not to concentrate on what the performers saying. When watching on TV not all tied up with the performance the methods is easier to see or recognise. You're spot on Lyle when you say that our minds are wired differently and we forget that or not realise it sometimes. |
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tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1787 Posts |
You guys are right it doesn't fool anyone, so quit doing we will all be better off fot it.
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Christopher Lyle Inner circle Dallas, Texas 5698 Posts |
So check it out...
Last night, as I'm walking out of my Monday Night restaurant, a table waves me over. They had just got there and wanted to see "one last trick" before I hit the road (remember that thread?). I walked over and said I'd show them one real fast but that I was already late leaving and had to take off. The routine I did was Pressure. The entire table began screaming and yelling after the initial penetration (no drinks had been served yet) about how awesome it was. The person who waved me down said it was the most amazing thing he had ever seen. I got a $100.00 TIP, a handshake and I hit the road. This afternoon, I get a phone call from this very person who said that he wanted to book me for his pals upcoming 40th Bday Party...AND HE BOOKED WITH ME! Contract emailed, signed and returned by 6pm this evening. Locked and loaded! All of this from doing what many of you people think is a "weak/silly" little trick! HA! What I find humorous about this entire thread is that so many are so quick to say that the effect is weak when the fact is...IT'S NOT!!! It may be weak to other magicians, but if performed correctly and with the proper motivation, this is a visual killer for laymen. Is it weak for magicians? Perhaps! Thankfully for me, I don't consider myself a Magician's Magician. I don't perform for other Magicians...not on purpose anyway. I am a performer for the people...laymen! This effect is awesome for lay audiences. Magicfish wrote: Quote:
I think this might be one of the weakest magic effects I've seen. I read an essay recently, Regal maybe? I honestly can't remember- I read so many books. Anyway, It was about magicians' flawed logic. And I believe this effect is seriously flawed. Its just so darned novel that I think some overlook its weaknesses. I watched Ammar do this trick and I cringed. Who made you the Magic Police? Just because YOU feel it's a weak trick, doesn't mean that it is. There is magic that is out there that I don't like and would never want to perform. The first thing that comes to mind is The Egg Bag. Doesn't fit my style or my character and I'm SHOCKED that people are fooled by it. In my brain...it's SO FREAKING OBVIOUS what is going on. Why don't laymen figure that out? What a stupid trick! However...I know that MANY have great success with it (Jeff Hobson to name one) so I can appreciate it's value in the performance world. It doesn't impress me, but then again, it's not designed to impress me (a magician). It's designed to fool laymen...and it obviously does. The same is true of Pressure! As for "flawed logic", I believe it is your logic that is flawed. You can't see the value in the effect b/c YOU ARE A MAGICIAN! Sadly, it's IMPOSSIBLE for a magi to turn off the magician hat and see a routine as a laymen would see it. If your target audience is other magicians, then sure! I can see why you wouldn't perform this. But for laymen, your throwing away gold! Msmaster wrote: Quote:
No performer making a living with this cares what other magicians say. If the effect works for you, you know it, and you use it. PERFECTLY STATED! Dinger136 wrote: Quote:
I disagree. People in general are NOT nice! The world had changed from friendly to rude over the last 20 years. I have never known ANYONE to be nice if they think they know what just happened. How many times do you hear after an effect "oh, I know how you did that one!" or "I saw what you did there!"? It gives a laymen great pleasure in busting you (and then trying to tell anyone and everyone within ear shot) on how they believe you performed the trick. So I must protest. If someone thought they had me on Pressure, then they would quickly scream out the method they felt was true. It's so unexpected that they just don't know what to think and by the time get their wits about them, the trick is done! As for the comment about this being one of those effects that a person could turn around and go through the motions and actually do...again, I disagree. Why? Because that has actually happened to me. Frequently, after doing Pressure, someone will ask me for a balloon. I gladly offer one up (out of confidence) and after them screwing around for a second or two, the fail to produce the same effect and hand me back the balloon. This is going to sound really crummy but truth be told, the average intelligence level of people today isn't what it use to be. As a matter of fact, over the last 10 years, I find that that it's becoming easier and easier to fool people. I have done many things in my career (both stage and close up) where I just couldn't believe that people actually "bought it!" hook line and sinker! This will be my final commentary in this thread. I know that those who hate the routine, think it sucks, find it weak, whatever will NEVER change their mind. I get that. But just because something doesn't work for you doesn't mean that it doesn't work for the rest of us. Just because you find the method transparent, doesn't mean that laymen do. Stucky said it best: Quote:
Personally I'm glad a lot of you don't like it. Less people doing it poorly messing it up for those of us who like it and make it work. Well said indeed! Christopher
In Mystery,
Christopher Lyle Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius For a Good Time...CLICK HERE! |
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superpixel Regular user Knoxville, TN 133 Posts |
Funny, I am following a similar arc. First time I did it for myself it looked pretty awesome, but that was using opaque balloon. Did it a few times for friends with opaque, ranged from "meh" to "cool" but I was going too fast...
I've got some fresh clear balloons coming in this week and can't wait to make this into a winner as Christopher has done. It's all in the presentation! Chris, I also agree w/you on the "dumbening" and "rudening" of the populace There was a good Wired article about how using the web and all our modern devices makes us dumber in some ways, or at least less able to focus. It pays my bills, however, so I'm not screaming yet! Anyway, this has been a very illuminating thread -- seeing different perspectives and workings of a pretty simple "trick" to make a real effect that freaks people out... that's magic!
-- superpixels / victor / banana wizard --
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Paul S Wingham Inner circle 1378 Posts |
I don't want to sound corny but I think tricks like this one's success or failure come down to the way the performer engage the audience. If you are not entertaining them chances are their mind will wander and back track to the method. I love performing this but it's very much in the context of a quick gag rather than a big effect.
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Stucky Inner circle I'm Batman! 1355 Posts |
Quote:
The world had changed from friendly to rude over the last 20 years. I have never known ANYONE to be nice if they think they know what just happened. How many times do you hear after an effect "oh, I know how you did that one!" or "I saw what you did there!"? It gives a laymen great pleasure in busting you (and then trying to tell anyone and everyone within ear shot) on how they believe you performed the trick. This is very true, especially in street performance. You are at the mercy of EVERY kind of idiot on the street. It ranges from little old ladies who are out for a stroll to homeless kids who think they are magicians because they can do three card tricks and have NO problem making you look like an idiot. Problem is we have been inundated with magic that has NO presentation or research and development behind it. We can just crank out crap at lightning speed because the tech allows it to be so. Then the buys, (that's us), perpetrate it by buying this stuff and keeping it going. Now no one wants to even LEARN how to be a performer. They think the tricks are enough. Sad, sad, sad.
Official Thread Killer
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xrudyreelx New user south jersey 54 Posts |
I first saw this trick a while ago and it didn't really catch mt attention. I stumbled across it again a few weeks ago started using it and its worked great the only time anybody caught me was because I flashed the bottom when I did and ending where I had to bite it open. Other then that everybody Ive shown it to has loved it. In one situation I used water balloon balloons which are much smaller to do a half dollar in balloon effect which also went over well. If if doesn't work for you your probably doing it wrong.
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
If the balloon were big enough I wonder if you could push your entire head into the balloon.
That would be quite a sight-gag....
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Sammy J. Inner circle Castle Rock, Colorado 1786 Posts |
Frank,
Unless you're a pinhead. In which case the balloon would probably pop!
Sammy J. Teague
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slyhand Inner circle Good ole Virginia 1908 Posts |
Howie Mandel did that with a rubber glove and blew it up with his nose when he was a stand-up guy. He stopped after it ruptured something in his head.
I am getting so tired of slitting the throats of people who say that I am a violent psychopath.
Alec |
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