I've always thought the best way to get a good patina was to use your cups but out of nothing more than plain old curiousity I decided to try and have a go at creating one with liver of sulphur. I thought I would take you all along for the ride...

I have to warn you, it's not great but here it is anyway!

Part 1
http://tinyurl.com/337njje

Part 2
http://tinyurl.com/39s787q

Bri

Great videos Bri. Keep up the experimenting.

-todd

Thanks Todd,

I thought of you while I was doing it actually. I wondered if you could get a design on disc and take it to a place that cut vinyl car decals. You might be able to attach those to the cup to mask areas to create a pattern similar to your experiment...

Bri

That's a very nice video, Bri. I've tried a few different products with varying results - some of them very nice. I think that the composition of copper/brass used also makes a difference to the outcome. Much as you found, none of the patinising agents really reproduce a patina that's the same as the one you get with regular handling.

A roofer once told me that the best way to hurry up the process of oxidation which gives copper a fine and impervious light-green coating of verdigris, is the application of equine urine.

But he also cautioned that the results, although more quickly achieved, are not as good as those which are obtained simply by allowing the copper to oxidize in air. I was told that the more slowly developing patina is composed of smaller aggregates that provide better appearance and function.

You probably do not want the patina on the Cups to progress that far, but want to hold it in an intermediate stage. I imagine that regular use and occasional gentle polishing will do that.

I wonder what is done to prevent bronze statues from going entirely green.

Woland

Bri, don't you think it would make a great follow-up video to try developing the patina with equine urine?

I think that most bronze statues have a chemical patina applied. It seems to serve as a protectant coat so the oxidation doesn't proceed any further. Bluing (or browning, depending on the age of the weapon) a gun barrel serves the same purpose, among other things.

Richard, thanks! I have yet to try brass...

Woland / Dale, I am looking for volounteers to collect the equine urine... please form an orderly que!

Dave, I wish I had as much success as you have with faux patina....

Here's a video of a guy who (unlike myself) actually knows what he's doing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSXHsTUXyrk&feature=related

Bri

Maybe I'm a bit old school, or maybe it was the decade I spent in the Army... But I really think that a little Brasso (or some other suitable polish) would be my choice. I just can't see anything better than nice shiny brass cups!

Hudson

One disadvantage of shiny brass cups is that they can reflect what you don't want the audience to see.

Bill,

As you know I am from Philippines... where it is quite humid the most parts of the year. Do you think humidity has something to do with the speed I develop patina? I have been collecting and performing the cups and balls for a very long time now and I have noticed that all it takes is a week and my cups develops great patina right away. I think you have seen some of my cups even in photos. I never used any agants to develop patina. I just polish and wash them... use them....voila! Patina. So... is it the humidity or just my excessive use? I am really wondering. Some people even send their cups my way just to develop patina. I could make a side business doing this... ha ha ha.


Cheers and Mabuhay!

Rannie

PS ... even the brass cups have the same effect on me.

Bill,

I understand that shiny cups will reflect, but don't see that as an issue for me. I don't think that the angles involved would ever be a problem for me -- I'll have to think on this one and film my routine and review very carefully.
Thanks for the perspective!

Hudson

Hey, Rennie!

Houston has similar humidity. In fact, one of my former physicians, a Dr. Conde, was from the Philipines. He said to me one day that Houston was the only town he had practiced in since he left the Philipines where he had actually treated a case of jungle rot!

I've found that copper cups I use a lot develop patina quite rapidly, so I think the latent humidity has a lot to do with it.



For most performers, it shouldn't make much of a difference.

Hudson,

The tell from the interior of my inexpensive Sino-Indian cups was most apparent when I rested them, mouths upwards, on the table. Previous study of the archives of The Magic Café suggested that one solution would be to dull the interiors, which I accomplished by painting them a flat red color similar to the RNT2 Classic Red balls that I use. In this picture, both of the cups contain a ball, but it is impossible to see the reflection in the painted one.

That's a good idea. Even roughening the interior of the cups would not be as effective.

The interior of cups designed for cups and balls should not be polished anyway. That is no place for a mirror surface to be located.
If you have a set of cups that is too shiny on the interior, you can do what Woland did, or take them to a metal shop that can do glass-beading. In about 60 seconds they can blast the inside of your cups and render a flat non-reflective finish on almost any metal. Careful with the PSI if you are using thin-walled cups.
Alternately, if you take a Green or Red Scotch-Brite pad to them you can put a fairly nice satin finish on the inside by hand, at least around the mouth area where it counts. This will leave a kind of sloppy brushed finish, but it cuts the reflective surface.

I don't think I've posted these pictures before but, since we're on the subject of using chemical agents to create a patina, I thought I'd share two of my previous attempts. What I wanted to achieve was an effect whereby there are highlight areas on the cups. Some cups (Sherwoods, Mark Burger) use gold plate as highlights. I wanted to develop that idea.

I tried various products on scraps of copper and brass. Copper didn't really ever work - mainly because the highlight effect isn't the same with the reddish copper tinge. Brass worked really well, especially using two products called 'Brass brown' and 'Brass black' from a company called Peter Dyson in the UK.

What was interesting was the quality of the finished result. There was definitely a better finish on the higher-end cups, whih I suspect reflects the quality of the brass used in the manufacture.

After triallig on scrap metal, I tried the technique on an old set of brass cups, before moving on to a more ambitious (and higher risk) project. Both sets were originally polished brass cups:

First set - patinised cups
Second set - patinised cups

The first set is a set of brass Magic Makers' cups I got for cheap on eBay. The second set - well, you can tell what they are! The MM cups look genuinely old. I used the 'Brass Black for these & it's a nice effect. The second set - using 'Brass Brown' look spectacular in the flesh. I'm really pleased with the way they turned out. Hope you like them too.

Richard

Your artificially patinated cups look wonderful to me! What a great couple of sets to use when dressing in an Edwardian fashion, with a tailcoat, celluloid collar and an ascot. They look as if from another era in Magic and they are stunning!


dsalley13

Richard, I think your cups look fantastic. I'm not sure I would have ever been brave enough to do that with the second set of cups, but both sets are beautiful. It makes me want to try it. I'll think I'll just get a set of MM cups though and leave it at that. Thank you so much for sharing that with us.

Thanks both for your positive comments.

dsalley13: The MM blackened cups do have that HG Wells 'steampunk' look, don't they!

Dale: Believe me, I was pretty nervous doing those Sherwoods! I didn't do them until I'd had the technique down to a fine art and was 99% sure of the result. Cleaning that stuff off is not easy. Drop me a line if you decide to try it - there are a few tricks to getting it right.

I should add that Peter Dyson's own-brand stuff (about 1/3rd down that hyperlinked page) was much better than the Birchwood Casey patinising solution: it gave a much mellower finish.