Pete, you bring up another thing about the original Grind-a-Ring. I purchased mine and it the noise maker broke relatively quickly. I wrote Roy Roth and he immediately said to return as he has a new design. I never did go to all that trouble to send merchandise back to England in the 1970's. I just purchased some new material and repaired my self, still in the old style. I do not know what his improvements were, but it was so this would not happen with newer models.

Roy A. Roth had some very good ideas in magic props and wallets. He liked to cover his boxes and such with leather. He always responded to my letters and offered to go beyond what he had to make anything of his, even if he was not currently marketing it for others.

I don't know your improvements, but I bet I know what it was that got improved. Click! Click!

RE-READING THIS THREAD... I may have jumped the gun a bit. What Paul Daniels was mostly unhappy about was the Walnut being seen on Letterman. It has been a signature effect of his for years... and he closes his one man show with it. He, shortly after the Letterman show, did his one man show at the Magic Castle and did do his walnut finish, but felt some might think he got it from watching it on Letterman.

This, sadly, often happens in magic.

John brought up that he was inspired by the "Orange, Lemon, Egg, and Canary"; anyone know of the origin of that piece? I've tried to find some information on that one, but not finding much on it.

I was not aware that Roy Roth had died but was actually living in a care home.

Collectors Workshop put out a version of Roy’s Ring Grinder and called it Ring Cruncher. Roy did give his permission to do this and was credited by them in the advertising and instructions.

Tony Curtis

I've had an interest in this effect for some time, having performed a stage version with a borrowed watch back in the 1990's. The earliest reference I'm aware of comes from Richard Hatch's "The Magic of J.N. Hofzinser" in which the description of effect No. 70, "Four Is One" it is prefaced by this statement:

"According to the notes of a contemporary of Dr. Hofzinser, the performance of this effect, which Dr. Hofzinser created for Prof. Compars Hermann, proceeded as follows:"

In the effect that follows, a lemon, an egg, and a walnut are produced from a specator's coat. An organge is also produced. A lady's glove is caused to grow and shrink, then vanish. The egg, lemon and walnut all vanish sequentially. The glove is found inside the walnut, from inside the egg, from inside the lemon, from inside the orange.

Hermann began working with Hofzinser in the early 1850's, and this effect seems likely to have been developed in the mid to late 1850's. According to Richard's footnotes, Ponsin explained this effect in print in 1858, and the effect was reportedly a favorite of Charles Bertram and David Devant, among others.

I didn't want to bring wood to the fire because I really like both performers but I was feeling like posting what Curtis wrote for quite a while now.

Proper crediting is a very difficult task and the claims to originality by famous magicians, for sincere they may be, are most often wrong. What they generally bring is a proper performance with a few presentational or technical twists: and this is more important than the idea itself: frankly, switching from an egg to a walnut or, as Michael Ammar did for a different effect to a peanut is not what makes the difference. What makes the difference is the real talent of Paul Daniel, of John Shryock or of Michael Ammar, their very different personalities which I wish to keep on enjoying. Since the use of a walnut will not damage the economical interests of Paul Daniels, I find the dispute fairly theoretical.

Who amongst the older ones of us didn't invent something they felt really proud about to discover some time later that someone else had been there before. Pete knows that it happen to me for his Karate Move with C&Bs, a move which I honestly "reinvented" with a slightly different handling but which principle he had discovered and published years before (a move that I now call the "I hate Pete Biro move" -and we laughed about this with Pete)

It's always a dilemma for the rigorous amateur historian to have to choose between publicly reminding facts and possibly tarnishing the lifetime work of image building by a magic star which serves the community.

Outrageous claims to originality by really famous magicians are generally more damaging than advantageous to them. If Paul Daniels had said that he was glad to think that his performance at the IBM had launched a creative movement (Pete's general attitude), he would have appeared at his proper stardom level with sharing capacity. This debate didn't produce this unfortunately, but it may still be time to do this.

Just my two cents.

While I honestly care less about credit, etc., in this particular effect, I can say three things.

1. Cohen was pretty good on Letterman
2. This DVD is a steal at $30
and
3. His last name is Shryock. Everyone keeps saying Shyrock. I guess this is slightly misleading since his 1 post name is Shymagic.

Anywho, it looks like he's still at Warren and Annabelle's in Lahaina on Maui until the end of the month, and I'm sure he's doing the routine so go check it out if you're there - Last time I was in Maui, however, I have to admit I did not go to W and A's, but instead Jody Baron's show. His salt pour is nice.

sorry so random!

Just to jump in and say how well this routine is constructed.
Johns handling is just amazingly fast and accurate.
The actions are comedy of its own.
I really enjoy this "straight to the point contribution". nothing left out here.

You get a beautiful shot demo with john performing infront of a live audience.
Then he explains the history and after it follows a detailed fun part.

all the best,
Martin

Curtis: Great job of locating the history of this trick!

Second, I don't get my shorts in a twist when it comes to method or modus operandi. I do, however, hate to see someone take and present a trick exactly as it is in someone's active repertoire. I once saw a stage show where the guy did Copperfield's duck bucket routine exactly like Copperfield, including the music, and the slow motion sucker explanation for the vanish of the duck. I was astonished (by the gall, not the trick).

I don't believe Shryrock is copying Daniel's presentation, am I correct? I've never seen Daniel's perform (I know, I know) but Shryrock's seems pretty straight to the point.

I did this for the first time last night behind the bar with a signed bill. The lemon is a load for a Benson bowl type routine, with the subsequent reveal of the bill in the walnut (for gawd's sake, why would I crush a nut with someone's ring in it?). They've seen me do a traditional bill in lemon so this was a shocker. The egg in the lemon got a huge reaction by itself. The walnut in the egg - more reaction. Bill in walnut - you gotta be kidding reaction...

Ironically (for me anyway) the "nest" is what killed them, because they honestly thought reality was as presented. It's inconceivable that I had time to somehow get the bill in the nut, in the egg, in the lemon. Again, the nest...

This trick has a huge pain in the arse setup and I predict very few people will be doing it. For special occasions, though, it can't be beat.

Did it again tonight for a house party. Revealed the lemon, revealed the egg, revealed the walnut... and could not for the life of me find the nut crackers in my case. Unbelievable. So, the guy had the walnut in his hand, I had him place it on the ground (concrete patio) and stomp on it. He pulled it out of the crushed walnut and opened it for everyone to see. Almost stronger, but I still like to crack it in his open hand.

I love the idea and actually stayed in the same house as John when we performed at Abbott's Get Together years ago. I remember him tipping it then and loving it, but not ever performing it. I also remember him tipping a copper sliver brass matrix effect that was awesome. I bought the DvD almost instantly. His loading is great. I'm trying to choreograph a way to actually vanish the walnut, then the egg before the final reveal. I have several ideas, but none of them seem strong enough to me. I'll keep working on it before I perform this great effect.

Doug I think it is dangerous to open the nut in a uncontrollable manner.
I was opening the nut with another nut.
It worked quite well but it destroyed my ring...
I was glad it was my one and not someone elses.
don't forget your insurance guys

ArtIn: That's why I used a signed bill, not a ring. A ring is insane to crack open the nut with a pair of nutcrackers.

Sorry I must have read over this. You are totaly right Doug!
It's important to use big wallnuts when doing it with a ring.

For the "huge pain in the arse setup"
In my opinion it is really minimalist and quick done.
It took me less than 8 minutes to prepare everything.

A bigger problem for me is to find suitable wallnuts (in this season).
The shop John described at the DVD just ships in the USA.

If anyone can provide me a link where I can find a shop which delivers to germany I would be very glad.

All the best,
Martin

I was about to buy the DVD, but now I became worried. it has to be a specific type of walnut? I live in Brazil, and now I'm not sure if the type of walnut that we have here are the right ones.
I appreciate any help

You can use any type of regular walnut. The problem is that in some parts of the world (such as Germany) walnuts may not be available all year around, because they're imported. If they're grown in Brazil then you'll be able to get them all year.

Juan, just try it out, get a walnut, do the preperation and see how much space is left inside the nut. The DVD is great you can go for it without hesitation.

Jeff, we have also nice walnuts here in Germany but you are correct not in this season.

But I stand by my comment about the size of the nut.
If the nut is too small there is a higher risk of damaging a ring inside.
Think it is logical cause you don't know how exactly the ring is positioned inside the nut. I have damaged my ring just with another walnut!
The ring is now bended and out of shape. (not a cheap one)
If I had used a nutcracker then I could have two pieces now.

Its just a tip I found out the hard way, nothing more.

All the best,
Martin

I get the DVD and I like it very much !

Can somebody give me Information about the Walnut ???? John does not give enough Information for me for that....

I live in Europe/Germany/Austria....
Thanks!!!!

You can PM John here and ask him:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/bb_pr......er=46455

CHRISSS I pm'ed you.

The one John described is not available in europe and must be imported
By the way it has been described very well on the DVD.